Yamcha 5-B Downgrade

[DivineAura44]

Sorry I gotta do you like this my boy .
Yamcha is 5-B for Gero thinking he was Goku. The reasoning makes sense but not for this tier. Goku was only Low 5-B at the time of the Saiyan Saga which is when Gero got his last reading. Why is he rated 5-B? Well Goku was 5-B when in Kaioken x3 and x4 and so I guess that's where the mixup comes from. He should only scale to Base Goku though as Gero most likely thought confused him for the strength of Base Goku (I don't see why he'd think otherwise, the "Goku" in front of him clearly isn't transformed.).


TL;DR: Yamcha gets his 5-B Key downgraded to Low 5-B.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Pretty sure Gero could consider him getting stronger than he was in Saiyan saga as he would have detected how strong Vegeta was at the time and he didn't seem to expect/consider Vegeta to be stronger than Goku. So it's most likely he either did manage to get readings on a Kaioken Goku or Yamcha is legit stronger than Saiyan saga Vegeta.

Personally, I still think 5-B is uncontroversial.

 

[DivineAura44]

Pretty sure Gero could consider him getting stronger than he was in Saiyan saga as he would have detected how strong Vegeta was at the time and he didn't seem to expect/consider Vegeta to be stronger than Goku. So it's most likely he either did manage to get readings on a Kaioken Goku or Yamcha is legit stronger than Saiyan saga Vegeta.

Personally, I still think 5-B is uncontroversial.

Yes, he did get readings on Kaioken Goku, that only goes to supplement my argument though. Goku was Z strength in base, Vegeta was Y strength. Gero knows Z however can use Kaioken x4 to get 4Z strength which is above Y. So Gero assumes Z = Yamcha and Z's just not transformed, little does he know Yamcha can't transform at all. I think the most accurate rating for Low 5-B but Low 5-B, possibly 5-B makes sense.

 

[Thelastmlg]

I agree with turning the 5-B into possible and him being at least low 5-B

 

[NiniAtheist2005]

5-B i think it's still possible

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Android 19 mistook Yamcha's "abnormal" energy readings for a Goku that had been training for the past three years at the fastest and greatest rate of improvement for a human possible.

 

[DivineAura44]

Android 19 mistook Yamcha's "abnormal" energy readings for a Goku that had been training for the past three years at the fastest and greatest rate of improvement for a human possible.

That should be added to the profile then. I still think it should be Low 5-B, LIKELY 5-B as that's more supporting evidence but it's the backbone of the argument.

 

[SirAlex09]

I still think it should be Low 5-B, LIKELY 5-B as that's more supporting evidence but it's the backbone of the argument.

Agree

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Android 19 mistook Yamcha's "abnormal" energy readings for a Goku that had been training for the past three years at the fastest and greatest rate of improvement for a human possible.

That tells me Yamcha is like legitimately stronger than Vegeta or Kaioken x4 Goku were back then, they took into account that Goku has an abnormal growth rate and that he logically should be a lot stronger. But even with those taken into account, they still thought Yamcha was Goku. Plus, the reason scenes like that exist is that Toriyama legit wanted to show that even the underdogs are still getting stronger.

Note, while the anime versions should still be ignored, it is consistent with how the Toei version of Yamcha was more than a match for Recoome and Guldo. But either way, I still think a solid 5-B rating seems legit with this new scan being added to profile.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I disagree with removing Yamcha's 5-B tier. Gero was following Goku and studying his growth for more than 5 years after the Saiyan Saga and knowing his last record was when he checked KK4 Goku with a PL of 32,000 , Yamcha definitely surpassed that if he thought that even after all the years Goku trained, Yamcha's power caused Gero to deduce he's Goku

Also, a comment was also made after Trunks left that anyone weaker than Frieza shouldn't even go face them. Even if they were talking about 1st form Frieza, that would make them High 5-A+

 

[DivineAura44]

I disagree with removing Yamcha's 5-B tier. Gero was following Goku and studying his growth for more than 5 years after the Saiyan Saga and knowing his last record was when he checked KK4 Goku with a PL of 32,000 , Yamcha definitely surpassed that if he thought that even after all the years Goku trained, Yamcha's power caused Gero to deduce he's Goku

Also, a comment was also made after Trunks left that anyone weaker than Frieza shouldn't even go face them. Even if they were talking about 1st form Frieza, that would make them High 5-A+

1. First part is supporting evidence, strong but supporting evidence.
2. Then he should be High 5-A+ not 5-B but Yamcha going despite Trunks tell him not to it's as strong of evidence and c'mon Gilad I know your smart enough to know that.

Why is this wiki so obsessed with keeping stats how they are

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

1. First part is supporting evidence, strong but supporting evidence.

The feat is that Yamcha's power when Gero registered it was so strong he mistook it for Goku's power

2. Then he should be High 5-A+ not 5-B but Yamcha going despite Trunks tell him not to it's as strong of evidence and c'mon Gilad I know your smart enough to know that.

I'm fine with High 5-A+ too but that's for another thread

I'm all for changing statistics (and this is certainly not my only change I want to make)

 

[Damage3245]

I think that Low 5-B, possibly 5-B would be fine.

 

[DivineAura44]

The feat is that Yamcha's power when Gero registered it was so strong he mistook it for Goku's power

I'm fine with High 5-A+ too but that's for another thread

I'm all for changing statistics (and this is certainly not my only change I want to make)

Yes, Goku's base power.

(W.)

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Honestly, "At least Low 5-B, likely higher" would be more accurate.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Also, a comment was also made after Trunks left that anyone weaker than Frieza shouldn't even go face them.

Piccolo never mentioned Frieza, just that they needed to train because the opponent would be unthinkably powerful.

 

[DivineAura44]

I see no really problem with most of these but I find Null's suggestion the most accurate.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Yes, Goku's base power.

(W.)

Gero was aware of Goku's entire fight, including when he went Kaioken. He also know he defeated Vegeta who is 5-B himself and only grew stronger since

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I agree with "At least Low 5-B, likely 5-B"

 

[Damage3245]

Honestly, "At least Low 5-B, likely higher" would be more accurate.

Yeah, this is fine with me.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

There's no reason why KK Goku wouldn't be considered. Not only Gero saw the entire battle, but he also checked their power during that entire fight and after it, as even Gero said there would be no need to follow Goku to Namek. He also knows Goku defeated Vegeta

So him mistaking Yamcha's power as Goku simply means Yamcha became so strong that even accounting for 5 years of training after the Saiyan Saga, he thought it was Goku based on how high Yamcha's power was

 

[RandomGuy2345]

There's no reason why KK Goku wouldn't be considered. Not only Gero saw the entire battle, but he also checked their power during that entire fight and after it, as even Gero said there would be no need to follow Goku to Namek. He also knows Goku defeated Vegeta

So him mistaking Yamcha's power as Goku simply means Yamcha became so strong that even accounting for 5 years of training after the Saiyan Saga, he thought it was Goku based on how high Yamcha's power was

To me, this is blatantly 5-B, but I guess playing it safe is something that exists.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

To me, this is blatantly 5-B, but I guess playing it safe is something that exists.

Yes, but there's no reason for it when Gero says directly that he spied on them up to the Saiyan Saga and could've also followed them to Namek. Again Gero also knows about Vegeta being defeated by Goku and he knows Vegeta was also on Earth now and still considered Goku as the main threat

 

[Damage3245]

Yes, but there's no reason for it when Gero says directly that he spied on them up to the Saiyan Saga and could've also followed them to Namek. Again Gero also knows about Vegeta being defeated by Goku and he knows Vegeta was also on Earth now and still considered Goku as the main threat

Goku beat Vegeta with Kaio-ken. Not sure how that's relevant here.

 

[Eseseso]

Sad Agree on Low 5-B Yamcha

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Goku beat Vegeta with Kaio-ken. Not sure how that's relevant here.

It's relevant because Gero can sense it. And because he knew Goku trained afterwards for 5 years. Gero could sense Goku's power with the Kaioken and deduced he'd only grow stronger from there based on his growth rate. And if Gero would've fought Goku still didn't surpassed Vegeta, then he'd think Vegeta is the main threat rather than Goku

Gero doesn't seem to have knowledge of the Kaioken, but his robot could sense Goku's power when using it, so he thought that was Goku's power

 

[SirAlex09]

To be fair Goku jumped from 430 to 8000 in half a year. (7570k per year) So him jumping from supposedly 8k to 18k in 3 years according toi Gero's calc isn't far fetched which is what Yamcha was mistaken for. And that was also surpressed Yamcha since he had no Aura around him.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Sorry I gotta do you like this my boy .
Yamcha is 5-B for Gero thinking he was Goku. The reasoning makes sense but not for this tier. Goku was only Low 5-B at the time of the Saiyan Saga which is when Gero got his last reading. Why is he rated 5-B? Well Goku was 5-B when in Kaioken x3 and x4 and so I guess that's where the mixup comes from. He should only scale to Base Goku though as Gero most likely thought confused him for the strength of Base Goku (I don't see why he'd think otherwise, the "Goku" in front of him clearly isn't transformed.).


TL;DR: Yamcha gets his 5-B Key downgraded to Low 5-B.

I disagree, I'm fine with the tier he takes

 

[DivineAura44]

Current Tally
Agrees: Me, Null, Eseseso, Damage, MLG, and Random.
Neutral: SirAlex
Disagree: DDM, Gilad, Toby, and NiniAtheist.
(I would have split it by what tier everyone wants but not everyone says it.)

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Neutral: Random although I think he leans 5-B.

I agree with "At least Low 5-B, likely 5-B"

 

[DivineAura44]

My fault og.

 

[SirAlex09]

Put me as neutral

 

[DivineAura44]

So what is the thread waiting for exactly? More votes? More discussion? It seems most of the arguments have been laid out.
Argument: Yamcha has no feats placing him at 5-B, nor does he scale to a 5-B character.
Counterargument (tell me if I'm misconstruing the argument): Yamcha has multiple statements which would put him at the level of 5-B or higher.

 

[SirAlex09]

So what is the thread waiting for exactly?

More Staff input. They decide whether sth is applied or not

 

[DivineAura44]

Bump, would love to reach a consensus here.

 

[Dalesean027]

Bump

 

[AguilaR202]

At least 5-C, possibly 5-B imo.

 

[DivineAura44]

At least 5-C, possibly 5-B imo.

Why 5-C? Yamcha is already that level in Saiyan Saga + his statement would confirm him being at least Low 5-B. (Thread so old I didn't get any notifications.)

 

[Godernet]

I think keeping it at 5B is the most accurate for now honestly maybe even 5A with more evidence.

Gero in that scan is essentially telling them that He highballed what Goku should be capable of after 5 years.

Assuming his high ball wouldn't at least consider how stronger Vegeta, an actual past opponent who survived and Goku would likely train for, would make Gero look stupid.

And we know he isn't considering how strong he ended up making 17, 18, and even 19. His only shortcoming was predicting Super Saiyan and even then he made 17 and 18 more powerful then something outside of his ability to predict.

For Gero to say he's assuming Goku got immensely stronger and for him to not even be 3x stronger in 5 years would make Gero look so incompetent considering how much stronger Goku got 1 year after his Raditz fight.

Gero didn't even seem surprised when the real Base Goku appeared.

 

[DivineAura44]

I think keeping it at 5B is the most accurate for now honestly maybe even 5A with more evidence.

Gero in that scan is essentially telling them that He highballed what Goku should be capable of after 5 years.

Assuming his high ball wouldn't at least consider how stronger Vegeta, an actual past opponent who survived and Goku would likely train for, would make Gero look stupid.

And we know he isn't considering how strong he ended up making 17, 18, and even 19. His only shortcoming was predicting Super Saiyan and even then he made 17 and 18 more powerful then something outside of his ability to predict.

For Gero to say he's assuming Goku got immensely stronger and for him to not even be 3x stronger in 5 years would make Gero look so incompetent considering how much stronger Goku got 1 year after his Raditz fight.

Gero didn't even seem surprised when the real Base Goku appeared.

I understand the core of the argument. It's that we should give Yamcha the benefit of the doubt on this with how obvious it should seem. The thing is though this is not actual evidence. This doesn't prove anything. At this very moment, there is 0 actual proof Yamcha is 5-B. That's why I'm advocating for likely, it would cover all bases and leaves nothing to chance.