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Yakko vs Kratos (0-1-11)

Tony_di_bugalu said:
Acausality type 4 doesn't protect against plot hax

Where did you guys even get that idea from?
Click to expand...
Just read what I'm saying, you haven't even bothered to understand it.

I have explained in detail the situations that will not affect. If you don't understand it, that's not my problem.
 
May I ask a little off-topic question, does the Void manip resistance of As the God of War (Greek Mythology) key also help Kratos resist EE as well right?
 
Georredannea15 said:
It doesn't work like that. If the plot has no feats to affect against characters in the verse that are independent of cause-effect relationships, it would be an NLF to say that the plot will affect characters that are independent of a particular causeand effect relationship.
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Except that's a double edged sword of a NLF to say type 4 Acausality can negate plot hax when it's not confirmed to be a resistance at all for vanilla type 4 unless it extends into the plot itself. Especially since the nature of cause and effect in the plot is vastly different than the cause and effect of the plot itself.
 
Georredannea15 said:
But I'm pretty sure Plot hax superior to fate hax because plot hax is only found in rare characters like Alucard and Dracula in the verse. If the X hax>Y hax, and Y hax>Z hash, it automatically becomes X >Z. In short, what the Y hax can do, the superior X can also do. It's simple

But I'll still ask to make sure the plot hax is scaled above the fate hax.
Click to expand...
Chaos power can do this, so every chaos creature has plot hax. Some smaller, others larger.
 
Georredannea15 said:
But I'm pretty sure Plot hax superior to fate hax because plot hax is only found in rare characters like Alucard and Dracula in the verse. If the X hax>Y hax, and Y hax>Z hash, it automatically becomes X >Z. In short, what the Y hax can do, the superior X can also do. It's simple

But I'll still ask to make sure the plot hax is scaled above the fate hax.
Click to expand...
Plot Hax is Exponentially above Fate Hax when it comes to capabilities
Fate Hax can only specifically manipulate outcomes/the future while Plot Hax pretty much manipulates anything and everything in the plot. The past, present, future, all characters, all actions, all events, all decisions and all choices.

For example
Pit Yhwach and his power over the Future with the Almighty vs Tite Kubo and his ability to decide everything that happens in Bleach l

Tite easily wins

Why?
Simple, because Almighty does what Tite designs it to do. The Future Yhwach sees is what Tite writes Yhwach to see. The Future Yhwach decides is what Tite makes him decide. Every action Yhwach could possibly take is because Tite writes him to take said actions. Every Future Yhwach changes is what Tite writes and decides what those changes in the Future are.

The power over Fate which only commands the future is nothing compared to the power of Plot which specifically can script what Fate even is to begin with and how Future will act.

But still
Resisting plot doesn’t allow one to resist Fate Hax (not by default anyways) simply because both while similar in effect achieves said effect through different applications. One is through manipulation of the Future and one is through the Metafictional narrative. And some applications of Plot Manipulation may have nothing to do with manipulating the future at all. Like Chowder who can remove people from Episodes. That has nth to do with manipulation of the future but is still plot manipulation regardless. If someone were capable of resisting that (being removed from episodes) that doesn’t automatically mean they can resist something like Fate Manipulation as that specific form of Plot Manipulation doesn’t emulate fate in anyway. Hence why context is often needed to attribute Fate Resistance as a byproduct of Plot Resistance (more or less)

TLDR
Plot Hax is generally exponentially above fate Hax in terms of capabilities but that depends on how well the Plot Hax in question is used. Because some variants of Plot Hax will control fate and others won’t. And resisting Plot Hax by itself doesn’t allow one to resist Fate Hax without proper context at least
 
Ikelaggan said:
Except that's a double edged sword of a NLF to say type 4 Acausality can negate plot hax when it's not confirmed to be a resistance at all for vanilla type 4 unless it extends into the plot itself. Especially since the nature of cause and effect in the plot is vastly different than the cause and effect of the plot itself.
Click to expand...
Ehh... that's what i mean. So it is no longer assumed that every plot affects Acausality beings. It would be an NLF to assume that without the feat.
 
Georredannea15 said:
Ehh... that's what i mean. So it is no longer assumed that every plot affects Acausality beings. It would be an NLF to assume that without the feat.
Click to expand...
You have a staff member saying that type 4 acausality offers no plot hax resistances, in addition to what you said about Glass. Anyway, ask Glass directly and he'll say the same thing. If you wanted to change that, you would probably have to do a staff discussion.
 
Georredannea15 said:
Ehh... that's what i mean. So it is no longer assumed that every plot affects Acausality beings. It would be an NLF to assume that without the feat.
Click to expand...
Just to make it simple here to understand
We have one coin and two sides

The Coin in question is Acausal 4 and Plot Manipulation
Acausal 4 is being able to run on irregular levels of Time and Causality and Plot Manipulation is being able to manipulate and control everything and anything present in the narrative.

Acausal 4 only covers Causality not Narrative
Causality =/= Narrative by default and certainly not without proper context from the verse in question.

So the two sides here are either:
1. Plot Manipulation can’t affect Type 4 Acausality unless their is proof that the plot manipulation can affect beings that can run on irregular causality
2. Type 4 Acausals don’t resist Plot Hax as Narrative Hax is a different kettle of fish that completely disregards and bypasses Causality as a whole and an irregular causality is still causality.

The coin can only land on one side and VBW has decided that the side should be the latter as the former is a bigger convolution and NLF to Assume acting on irregular causality can allow you to resist narrative powers especially when narrative powers have nothing to do with causality and will disregard it almost entirely. Especially when that irregular causality is still mentioned to exist within the confines of the plot
 
ShionAH said:
I am blind 😭
nvm
Click to expand...
Yeah lol
Everyone started changing to Incon later on page 2 for reasons above lolol
Yakko has ways to win but there kinda too slow to reliably pull them off before he gets owned by Kratos especially since Kratos has Hax to up his chances of landing one strike and has numerous Hax Yakko doesn’t resist
 
ShionAH said:
Idk man Yakko probably wins with plot tbh. Yakko FRA still
Click to expand...
Any Plot Hax Yakko could use to Insta-Win immediately takes a bit of time to activate
Time in which Kratos could Precog or use Cosmic Awareness to see his impending defeat and then just Lead with thought based Time Stop which Yakko doesn’t resist and then just whack the Yak lololololol 😂😂😂

Any could reliably happen first
 
Ss3micah said:
Just to make it simple here to understand
We have one coin and two sides

The Coin in question is Acausal 4 and Plot Manipulation
Acausal 4 is being able to run on irregular levels of Time and Causality and Plot Manipulation is being able to manipulate and control everything and anything present in the narrative.

Acausal 4 only covers Causality not Narrative
Causality =/= Narrative by default and certainly not without proper context from the verse in question.

So the two sides here are either:
1. Plot Manipulation can’t affect Type 4 Acausality unless their is proof that the plot manipulation can affect beings that can run on irregular causality
2. Type 4 Acausals don’t resist Plot Hax as Narrative Hax is a different kettle of fish that completely disregards and bypasses Causality as a whole and an irregular causality is still causality.

The coin can only land on one side and VBW has decided that the side should be the latter as the former is a bigger convolution and NLF to Assume acting on irregular causality can allow you to resist narrative powers especially when narrative powers have nothing to do with causality and will disregard it almost entirely. Especially when that irregular causality is still mentioned to exist within the confines of the plot
Click to expand...
But what I mean is that already uses it like this on wiki. This is not something I made up, I've seen examples in several threads and profiles.
 
Georredannea15 said:
But what I mean is that already uses it like this on wiki. This is not something I made up, I've seen examples in several threads and profiles.
Click to expand...
If someone is going around stating that Acausal 4 resist Plot Manipulation
Then either they are speaking about a specific verse that has the context needed to support that argument or they are spreading misinformation and should stop immediately
 
Ss3micah said:
If someone is going around stating that Acausal 4 resist Plot Manipulation
Then either they are speaking about a specific verse that has the context needed to support that argument or they are spreading misinformation and should stop immediately
Click to expand...
In fact, this is due to the ability of each plot haxs not to affect Acausality beings without feats. If you look at Arale's profile, you'll see what I mean. But I don't want to derail any more. If necessary, I'll open a staff discussion thread.
 
Georredannea15 said:
In fact, this is due to the ability of each plot haxs not to affect Acausality beings without feats. If you look at Arale's profile, you'll see what I mean. But I don't want to derail any more. If necessary, I'll open a staff discussion thread.
Click to expand...
You literally have staff members saying that Type 4 Acausuality offers no plot hax resistances, in addition to what I said about what Glass said, which you can confirm by sending him a DM.
 
Georredannea15 said:
In fact, this is due to the ability of each plot haxs not to affect Acausality beings without feats. If you look at Arale's profile, you'll see what I mean.
Click to expand...
That case specifically falls under in verse context lol unique to the verse
Not a set standard of Acausal 4 overall LOLOL 😂
Georredannea15 said:
But I don't want to derail any more. If necessary, I'll open a staff discussion thread.
Click to expand...
It’s not necessary trust me
Everyone here will tell you the same thing
Acausal 4 grants no protection from Plot Hax
The only time it does is when the Acausal 4 in question provides sufficient evidence of not just extending to Time/Causality but to the Narrative as well

You have some characters on the Wiki who have Acausal 4 with that added flavor of context that allows for protection from Plot Manipulation but that’s not the default lol
That’s only when in verse context is provided

By default, Any Acausal 4 that only stops at Time/Causality gets decked by Plot Manipulation
 
At least incon, possibly Kratos

steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.jpg


Okay but why are we default assuming that Type 4 aca provides resistance to plot hax? It works on a narrative scale, not just causality. And either way, Kratos' aca would need to show feats of being resistant to that brand of hax.
 
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