Xeelee : The Transcendence's Possible Tier Revision

[Lucis=the=Lumenian]

I made a blog (https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Lucis=the=Lumenian/Xeelee_Sequence_Cosmology). And I just realized that going by Xeeleeverse's cosmology, Transcendence's capability and their current Tier don't match.

Basically the blog summary is : Possibilities are in higher dimensions. Higher dimensions exist for the sole purpose of facilitating those Possibilities.

And the problem is that one of The Transcendence's 'main feats' is manipulating those Possibilities (which reside in higher dimensions).

Actualizing every Possibility into a single meta-reality regardless of any logic which could have prevented the actualization of said possibilities in the first place :

It was as if every possibility was being generated in some meta-reality, every human who might ever have lived under any contingency was to be born — and all these possibilities folded down, regardless of logic, into a single timeline. "History will be meaningless," she murmured.
	~ Transcendent​

If my understanding is correct then what Transcendence would do is to 'flatten'/'crush' all higher dimensional spaces (1-B to High 1-B) into a single super-universe ('meta-reality').

And with no regard to causality and logic, they actualize every possibility of 'humans that could live, live!'. Which probably kinda difficult normally. Because there'd be conflicting events, like sometimes by choosing different partner you'd have different baby.

Maybe this is where 'transcending causality and logic' came in. It'd be very handy to deal with conflicting events.

Every Possibilities would probably be able to directly interact with other Possibilities now. Instead of being separated by unbreachable wall of higher dimensions.

The last part of 'History will be meaningless'. If you already read my Xeelee Cosmology blog, then you'd know that time and causality are illusion for those who can see into Configuration Space.

But what if all Configurations in Configuration Space are made to be 'real at the same time'? All things probably would happen all at once like that one Doctor Who episode. History will be meaningless.

So in essence, what Transcen would do, need to be 1-B to High1-B effort to be possible.

XX

Another blog explaining "Nature" of Transcendence. Might help in deciding the revision.

 

[Elizhaa]

Transcendence's Realm is True Platonic realm

That 1-A

 

[Lucis=the=Lumenian]

@Nedge So you are agree on my Interpretation 2? Well that's unexpected.

So do we do revision or what? Because there are two matches involving The Transcendence. One is almost concluded to boot.

Because this New Rating (1-A or whatever) have more solid ground to stand on IMO (my blog which contains the detailed cosmology) rather than Low 1-B one (no offense to Zacch the maker of Transcendence's profile).

 

[Lucis=the=Lumenian]

bump

 

[Elizhaa]

You might want to contact Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot and DarkLK since they know a lot about the Tiering System

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Maybe it should be something like "Unknown, Possibly 1-A"?

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

This would also affect the Monads

 

[Elizhaa]

This would also affect the Monads

Yeah, it would

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Hmmm.

"At least Low Hyperverse level, possibly Outerverse level (Fully Transcendent over the regular multiverse's spacetime and it's dimensions, of which there are 11 normal ones. It was implied the total quantity of higher dimensions is infinite with the Transcendence being capable of controlling a true platonic realm in which all levels of existence in the Xeeleeverse sans the monads are a "shadow" in comparison to its "light". Fully transcendent over causality, consequence, and even logic.)


How's this look?

 

[Elizhaa]

I believe that you should go for Tier 1-A only and also adding more justification From Exultant :

" An abstract, static, Platonic realm — a place of morbid contemplation, a consolation for ageless pharaohs as they sought to justify the way they administered the suffering of their fellow creatures."

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Actually yes, this isn't just using Plato's stuff as an example, it's very blatant true conceptual transcendence

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

So, would it just be, Likely 1-A, or even just solid 1-A?

 

[Lucis=the=Lumenian]

You might want to contact Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot and DarkLK since they know a lot about the Tiering System

I tried Azathoth but he is probably busy. Maybe I'll try DarkLK.

This would also affect the Monads

Agreed. Both Monads and Transcendence might be equal.

"And then there is our greater fate. Beyond the walls of time there are greater minds still, Alia. We call them monads. Our universe might not have been; there were other possibilities. Why our universe? Because of us — because of our potential to grow into a full apprehension of the cosmos, an expression of the objective cosmos in subjective awareness. So you see, Alia, we humans, through the Transcendence, will become the consciousness of the universe itself — and we will, we must, fulfill the great project of the monads.

Granted, its so very sounds like a self-gratifying quote. But its likely that its not mere boast that The Transcendence actually can 'fulfill great project of the monads' : making the whole Xeeleeverse move by their subjective will alone.

Hmmm.

"At least Low Hyperverse level

I say we should add 1-B, haha.

Okay, too many keys isn't good?
and also adding more justification
Or you could link my blog to words in Attack Potency.

Actually yes, this isn't just using Plato's stuff as an example, it's very blatant true conceptual transcendence

Have you read my 'infinity rant' in my new blog? (its in the OP, on the bottom). There's buckload of more statements about transcendence in there. Maybe you could add links to my blog to The Transcendence page.

Author likes to emphasize that Transcendence is truly divorced from reality.

And about 'transcending logic'. Haha, no. You just don't add that kind of stuff without additional justification. Because truly transcending logic is instant ticket to At least 1-A.

Fortunately, Transcen seem to actually have one. They operate by the way of thinking that : 'truly infinite being can solve all.' And 'Oh, more infinities? Just create more 'room' to accomodate them'

So I have suspicion that Transcendence's state as 'literally infinite being' is the embodiment of "Cantor's Absolute Infinity". Especially since Transcendence has been compared to "Christian God".

This gave me a theory on how Transcendence can bypass logic. They're using their infinite nature to make use of "infinite logic".

In a way, its a form of "Non-duality". They can use answer that's neither "True" or "False".

Well, we don't actually know mechanics on how Transcendence bypass logic but the above is nearest educated guess I can make.

Bottom line is : I advise not to add 'transcending logic' without 'Nonduality'. But 'Nonduality' itself has to have good justification.

There's also 'default stuffs' that must be added by Tier change. Like [1], High-Godly to True-Godly, and change Concept Manip from Type 2 to type 1.

If Transcendence can truly be upgraded to 1-A, that is. Maybe some people will disagree.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Transduality is usually 1-A. At least 1-B likely 1-A, or even just plain 1-A, seems fine, actually.

 

[Crzer07]

Seems alright at a glance

 

[Lucis=the=Lumenian]

Transduality is usually 1-A. At least 1-B likely 1-A, or even just plain 1-A, seems fine, actually.

Okay. Now we just need to wait for unlocking the page.

I can't totally memorize what's needed to be revised actually, haha.

Regen, nonduality, beyondimensional existence, Concept type 1... do I miss anything?

Seems alright at a glance

Thank you.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

So, after reading through the blog, I have a few thoughts, but I just want to verify something before anything else.

"Reth glared at him, eyes hard. 'You are beginning to understand. Now. Imagine a space of stupendously many dimensions.' He held up a dust grain. 'Each grain represents one configuration of all the particles in our universe, frozen in time. This is reality dust, a dust of the Nows. And the dust fills configuration space, the realm of instants. Some of the dust grains may represent slices of our own history.'"

This quote is referring to Configuration Space, is it not?

 

[Lucis=the=Lumenian]

"Reth glared at him, eyes hard. 'You are beginning to understand. Now. Imagine a space of stupendously many dimensions.' He held up a dust grain. 'Each grain represents one configuration of all the particles in our universe, frozen in time. This is reality dust, a dust of the Nows. And the dust fills configuration space, the realm of instants. Some of the dust grains may represent slices of our own history.'"

This quote is referring to Configuration Space, is it not?

Yes. It is 1-B thing. Have many higher dimensions (10^80 higher dimensions or so) but most likely limited.

Thank you @Azathoth for comment. Have you read "this" thing too?

It elaborates the Nature of Transcendence. Its compared to zero dimensional point to 3D cone (represents degree of transcendence over reality).

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Well, from what I can see, I definitely agree with 1-B to a ludicrously high degree being totally reasonable for Configuration Space. The statement about particles and describing Configuration Space as having "stupendously many dimensions" definitely seems to solidify that.

I'd be a bit more wary about automatically assuming uncountably infinite dimensions due to uncountably infinite possibilities, as this sort of thing seems slightly contradicted in other instances (alongside the fact I don't believe uncountably infinite higher dimensions is ever stated), such as that even after the Transcendence collapse all possible timelines into one, there will still be a finite (albeit absolutely unimaginably high) number of humans in existence.

"It wasn't as if the Transcendence were meddling with alternate histories, spinning off different realities branching from decision points, from the life or death of an individual like Morag Poole. It was as if every possibility was being generated in some meta-reality, every human who might ever have lived under any contingency was to be born—and all these possibilities folded down, regardless of logic, into a single timeline.
"History will be meaningless," she murmured. "The world will be a hall of mirrors, crowded out by the shining Restored. . . ."
"All wrongs righted," Leropa declaimed. "All injuries averted. All deaths eliminated. Every human potentiality actualized, the realization of entelechy!"
Even cushioned by the Transcendence, Alia felt bewildered. For a start it would be the ultimate in overpopulation. How could all those crowding Restored be fed, even find room to stand on Earth or the human planets of the future?
But such problems were trivial for the Transcendence. The number of the Restored would be huge but finite—and any finite problem was trivial to a power of infinite capability. It could be done."

I'm also not sure on 1-A due to being described as Platonic and timeless when some realms given a nearly identical description were also clarified to be higher-dimensional.

Regardless, pretty much anything would be an absolutely massive increase in scale. So I suppose my question would just be what are the specific reasons that the Transcendence meddling with the "particles" of Configuration Space would be synonymous with them affecting the full extent of the higher-dimensional structure of said space? Are there more quotes on that? They are clearly beyond normal physical reality, but are there specific quotes that put them "beyond" Configuration Space?

 

[Lucis=the=Lumenian]

@Azathoth Actually currently I haven't found anymore quotes. They're just described to manipulate information.

They can do what they want because they'd be subjective will of xeeleeverse itself.

So, currently, what's your verdict? 1-B is a go I guess?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

If they can fully manipulate Configuration Space on a fundamental level, 1-B is definitely acceptable, but more quotes would be helpful.

 

[Lucis=the=Lumenian]

If they can fully manipulate Configuration Space on a fundamental level, 1-B is definitely acceptable, but more quotes would be helpful.

That bit about them being 'consciousness of xeeleeverse' that I posted above is nearest thing I guess.

Level of awareness decides your powerlevel in Xeeleeverse it seems. And Transcen is aware of whole verse along 'fully aware of themselves', both seem to cause them to jump in powerlevel.

That quote you posted seem as direct as it can get.

I am enternaining the idea that Transcen is Tier 11 bevause they're compared to a zero dimensional in comparison to reality ovo

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

What about "At least 1-B, possibly 1-A"?

 

[Lucis=the=Lumenian]

What about "At least 1-B, possibly 1-A"?

Azathoth seems to disagree about 1-A. He's not even sure if its even 1-B, haha.

Hmm, I need to call more people it seems.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

At absolute minimum 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000-Dimensional, potentially outerversal, ain't bad.

Edit: One Hundred Quinquavigintillion-Dimensional

 

[Lucis=the=Lumenian]

At absolute minimum 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000-Dimensional, potentially outerversal, ain't bad.

Edit: One Hundred Quinquavigintillion-Dimensional

Haha, the number of higher dimensions really sound ridiculous. Maybe its highest number of finite 1-B ever recorded.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Should they have a seperate key for the weakened form? When weakened IIRC they're still High 1-C

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Inb4 the thing solos SCP

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I don't think there's enough for 1-A, especially when something like Configuration Space (which was described similarly) was presented as being unbound by normal time and space by being insanely higher dimensional, but was still stated to have some form of restrictive geometry.

Stupidly high 1-B should be a given, though. I'd just like to verify that the Transcendence fundamentally altered said space instead of just the particles contained within.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Could it be "at least 1-B" maybe?

 

[Lucis=the=Lumenian]

Should they have a seperate key for the weakened form? When weakened IIRC they're still High 1-C

Two keys. 'Pre-Singularity' (Compared to 2Dimensional) and 'After-Singularity' (Compared to Zero Dimension).

Config Space is just higher dimensions, yes.
But Transcend's mechanics seems to imply they control a realm higher than Config Space. That holographic principle thing.

I mean, why the novel compared information realm as being 2-Dimensional instead of 1-B that it really is? It seems Transcen's mechanics goes deeper than 1-B.

As novels already said, the metaphor is : 0-dimensional : Transcendence 2-dimensional : Informational realm 3-dimensional : Xeeleeverse, possibly Configuration Space

So Transcendence seems to be 2 levels below/above reality.

Stupidly high 1-B should be a given, though. I'd just like to verify that the Transcendence fundamentally altered said space instead of just the particles contained within.

So what if Transcen only altered the possibilities within? Then they'd still be High 1-C?
Because you have no reason to believe the higher dimensions are 'wrecked' for Transcen's 'meta-reality' to be possible.

But IMO, the grains are fundamentally interconnected with the higher dimensions. Because the 'Map of Everything' only works if there are higher dimensions. You cannot just choose to manipulate the grains inside, especially with Transcen's 'meta-reality' case.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Yes, pre and post singulairty seems fine

 

[Lucis=the=Lumenian]

Yes, pre and post singulairty seems fine

Its freaking weird though if we're agreeing with Azathoth's explanation.

"Transcen can only affect things inside higher dimension but not higher dimensions itself. So they stay High 1-C."

I mean, what's the point in having ability to control entirety of Config Space then? I know we don't have quotes but it seems pretty heavily implied that Transcen is above the entire Xeeleeverse in everything.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Full power is definitely 1-B, it's just that it didn't start out that way

 

[Lucis=the=Lumenian]

Full power is definitely 1-B, it's just that it didn't start out that way

Yeah, I understand. But I got the impression that Azzy is only agreeing for 'Possibly 1-B' at most.

We need staff in here anyway. Azathoth and Nedge already gave verdict.

 

[Lucis=the=Lumenian]

It seems DarkLK gave an OK

Well, if there really is a separate coordinate axis of each configuration, then soid 1-B seems to be in order.

I'm not sure about 1-A, but I don't understand the context very well.

Now we just need Antvasima here....

 

[Antvasima]

I trust Azathoth's and DarkLK's senses of judgement. They understand these concepts better than I do.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Okay, can an admin unlock it so I can make the seperate keys?

 

[Antvasima]

Can you list the exact titles of all the pages that you need unlocked?

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

The Transcendence (Xeelee Sequence), and Monads are the only two