Xeelee : The Transcendence's Possible Tier Revision

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Azathoth is the only staff member to have actually read the books so yeah we should wait for him

 

[Elizhaa]

Done, just tell me when you are done

 

[Antvasima]

Maybe somebody can remind Azathoth?

 

[Jockey-1337]

I wonder why the Xeelee and Photino Birds are at high 1-C whereas the Transcendence are at 1-B. The Xeelee completely defeated the Transcendence at the end of the day and Photino Birds, in turn, defeated the Xeelee.

 

[Antvasima]

I do not know. Sorry. Reminding Azathoth about this thread would probably be a good idea.

 

[Kepekley23]

Don't know much about this series, but I trust Azzy's judgement.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

I wonder why the Xeelee and Photino Birds are at high 1-C whereas the Transcendence are at 1-B. The Xeelee completely defeated the Transcendence at the end of the day and Photino Birds, in turn, defeated the Xeelee.

...

Actuaaaaally


The Xeelee could **** around with configuration space too, IIRC


Wouldn't this make all three god tiers just "1-B"?

 

[Jockey-1337]

I wonder why the Xeelee and Photino Birds are at high 1-C whereas the Transcendence are at 1-B. The Xeelee completely defeated the Transcendence at the end of the day and Photino Birds, in turn, defeated the Xeelee.

...
Actuaaaaally


The Xeelee could **** around with configuration space too, IIRC


Wouldn't this make all three god tiers just "1-B"?

Yes, they should be 1-B at least.

 

[Jockey-1337]

And possibly High 1-B https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2372835#59

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

"At least 1-B, possibly High 1-B" is fine

 

[Jockey-1337]

I agree

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

The xeelee profile is outdated as hell anyway

 

[Antvasima]

We probably need Azathoth's help with this though. You can tell him that I would appreciate the help.

 

[Elizhaa]

We probably need Azathoth's help with this though. You can tell him that I would appreciate the help.

I contacted Azatoth about this CRT

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the help.

 

[Elizhaa]

Happy to help, Antvasima!

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

If the xeelee became 1-B the photino birds would be as well

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Also I just realized the photino birds should have nigh omnipresence

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Oh and Photino and xeelee should have Type 2 conceptual manipulation


As for AP


Photino Birds: High 1-B

Xeelee: High 1-B

Humanity: High 1-B (At height of power)

Base Transcendence: High 1-B

Full Power Transcendence: 1-A

Monads: 1-A

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Also I just realized the photino birds should have nigh omnipresence

"Speed: Immeasurable normally, comparable to the xeelee who can arrive at destinations before they leave. Nigh-Omnipresent normally (Exist everywhere Dark Matter does across space-time)

 

[Jockey-1337]

Oh and Photino and xeelee should have Type 2 conceptual manipulation


As for AP


Photino Birds: High 1-B

Xeelee: High 1-B

Humanity: High 1-B (At height of power)

Base Transcendence: High 1-B

Full Power Transcendence: 1-A

Monads: 1-A

I disagree. The Transcendence even in its most powerful form cannot be beyond the Xeelee and the Birds.

 

[Antvasima]

It doesn't seem like much will happen here unless Azathoth takes an interest again. Perhaps we should close this?

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Let's just be patient

 

[Antvasima]

This thread is almost 3 months old...

 

[Assaltwaffle]

I haven't read over the full thread but if the monads are being accurately portrayed to what Leibniz envisioned them to be, they'd be 1-A.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Can you ask Azathoth for a confirmation?

 

[Assaltwaffle]

I will and if we need more input I can look over this tomorrow as well.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the help.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

I don't think "Base" transcendence is actually a thing, now that I think about it. It grows in power, but it stays at the same dimensional level throughout the whole story.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

But IIRC The Xeelee and Photino birds should actually probably have all of The Transcendence hax

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

What was the Monad 1-A stuff, again?

I'm genuinely quite unsure on anything beyond 1-B for stuff like the Xeelee, Transcendence, and Photino Birds without direct infinite dimensional statements, though. We tend to steer away from that sort of thing. Shit, we require explicit use of the word "infinite" in regards to a number of universes before even making something 2-A. I understand Tier 1 stuff is often far more vague or complex, but this should require more evidence as opposed to less.

I know I asked this before, but is there also mention of direct creation/destruction/manipulation of the fundamental parts of configuration space as opposed to just manipulation of its particles? It's been a long time, but this would help immensely.

 

[Jockey-1337]

I'm genuinely quite unsure on anything beyond 1-B for stuff like the Xeelee, Transcendence, and Photino Birds without direct infinite dimensional statements, though.

10^80 is equal to number of particles in the universe, right? But config space includes an infinite amount of dimensions/possibilities.


From space battles :

Q: did anyone even prove Configuration Space is infinite? Because as far as Reality Dust showed, it deals with all possible states a single universe can take, which are not infinite, no matter how huge a number they are.

- trexalfa


A: Yes.

The amount of possible histories of the main universe is infinite. We do know that said histories originate only from the main universe, given how all of them are supposed to be resolved in the "timelike infinity". An "event" in the distant future of the main universe.

["And so you believe," came the Ghost's simulated voice, "that this universe is essentially transient— all you sense, all you achieve, even your experiences of your inner self will pass away."

"Not transient, exactly," Burden called back. "Just one of an uncountably infinite number of possibilities which will, cumulatively, be resolved at timelike infinity, after the manner of a collapse of quantum functions." - Exultant]

[Then there were boundaries at infinity. Spacelike infinity contained all the places infinitely remote from the observer… and there was a boundary far upwhen, at timelike infinity. At the end of all world lines.

The initial singularity, and the boundaries at spacelike and timelike infinity, were all Cauchy boundaries. - Timelike Infinity]

As to reach an infinite amount of possible ( non repetitive ) arrangements one has to have an infinite amount of stuff to arrange, which means that there is also an infinite amount of possible states in the configuration space of the main universe where said states are mapped into. -sufficient

 

[Jockey-1337]

I haven't read over the full thread but if the monads are being accurately portrayed to what Leibniz envisioned them to be, they'd be 1-A.

I'm finding the quote on spacebattles. I will comment soon.

EDIT: @Azathoth


About mention of direct creation/destruction/manipulation of the fundamental parts of configuration space:

[It was, Gemo said, a vast, spreading landscape, under a towering sky; she had glimpsed a beach, a rising, oily sea, an immense mountain shrouded in mist . . .

Reth stalked back and forth, arms spread wide. 'We remain human, Hama Druz. I cannot apprehend a multidimensional continuum. So I sought a metaphor. A human interface. A beach of reality dust. A sea of -entropy, chaos. The structures folded into the living things, the shape of the landscape, represent consistency - what we time-bound creatures apprehend as causality.'

'And the rising sea -'

The threat of the Xeelee,' he said, smiling thinly. The destruction to come. The obliteration of possibility. Even there, threats can reach . . . but life, mind can persist.

'Configuration space is real, Hama Druz. This isn't a new idea; Pleh-toh saw that, thousands of years ago . . . Ah, but you know nothing of Pleh-toh, do you? The higher manifold always existed, you see, long before the coming of mankind, of life itself. - Reality Dust]


[Why, a child could, Hama thought in awe. A child playing on a beach - if every grain on that beach is a slice in time.

I see a line sketched in the dust, a history, smooth and complete. I pick out a grain with Callisto positioned just here. And I replace it with a grain in which Callisto is positioned just a little further over there. As easy, as wilful, as that. - Reality Dust]


[Hama said, 'But, if your meta-universe is static, timeless, how could it be experienced? For experience depends on duration.'

Reth shook his head impatiently. He tapped his data slate and beckoned to Sarfi. 'Here, child.'

Hesitantly, she stepped forward.

She trailed a worm-like tube of light, as if her image had been captured at each moment in some invisible emulsion.

She emerged, blinking, at the other end of the tube, and looked back at it, bewildered.

'Stop these games,' Hama said tightly.

'You see?' Reth said. 'Here is an evolution of Sarfi's structure, but mapped in space, not time. But it makes no difference to Sarfi. Her memory at each frozen instant contains a record of her walking across the floor towards me - doesn't it, dear? And thus, in static configuration space, sentient creatures could have experiences, afforded them by the evolution of information structures across space.' - Reality Dust]


[Now Reth began telling Gemo, rapidly and with enthusiasm, of his plans to explore his continent of configurations.

'No human mind could apprehend that multidimensional domain unaided, of course. But it can be modelled, with metaphors - rivers, seas, mountains. It is possible to explore it . . .' - Reality Dust]


About Monads:

[In the seventeenth century the German mathematician Gottfried Leibniz had imagined that reality was constructed from pseudo-objects that owed their existence solely to their relation to each other. In his idea of the "monad," Leibniz had intuited something of the truth of the creatures who infested this domain. They existed, they communicated, they enjoyed a richness of experience and community. And yet "they" didn't exist in themselves; it was only their relationships to each other that defined their own abstract entities. - Exultant]

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

That's Type 5 acausality for all god tiers, + Type 2 conceptual manipulation for all god tiers, + solid 1-A Monads


Nice

 

[The_Causality]

I see nothing about Type 5 acausality, Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation and 1-A from this quote tho

About the Entire thread, i haven't read it so i can't give a real opinion about the whole.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

The xeelee profile should be remade as a civilization proife

The photino birds are fine as a character profile since they're a hive mind

 

[Elizhaa]

I see nothing about Type 5 acausality, Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation and 1-A from this quote tho
About the Entire thread, i haven't read it so i can't give a real opinion about the whole.

if the monads are being accurately portrayed to what Leibniz envisioned them to be, they'd be 1-A.as

>Reth stalked back and forth, arms spread wide. 'We remain human, Hama Druz. I cannot apprehend a multidimensional continuum. So I sought a metaphor. A human interface. A beach of reality dust. A sea of -entropy, chaos. The structures folded into the living things, the shape of the landscape, represent consistency - what we time-bound creatures apprehend as causality

>'Configuration space is real, Hama Druz. This isn't a new idea; Pleh-toh saw that, thousands of years ago . . . Ah, but you know nothing of Pleh-toh, do you? The higher manifold always existed, you see, long before the coming of mankind, of life itself. - Reality Dust]

>'No human mind could apprehend that multidimensional domain unaided, of course. But it can be modelled, with metaphors - rivers, seas, mountains. It is possible to explore it . . .' - Reality Dust]

Humans cannot understand multidimensional continuum or Configuration space without a system of causality

Conceptual Manipulation Type 2 have more evidence in the blog link above. The way that the Gods Tiers are described they should have Abstract Existence (Type 1) as their state of existence can be comprehended only with metaphors, from Jockey-1337's link text.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

So Photino Birds = Type 1 abstract of the Type 2 concept of Dark Matter? Interesting

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Also, the Xeelee created a universe for the "silver ghosts" with different laws of mathematics, so, Mathematics Manipulation

 

[Elizhaa]

Also, the Xeelee created a universe for the "silver ghosts" with different laws of mathematics, so, Mathematics Manipulation

It would be better evidence of Law Manipulation