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WWE Matchups Thread

Pikaman said:
Big Show 3-0-0 up if Saitama loses this it’s gonna look so ridiculous on his profile 😭
Click to expand...
I guess it’s not that surprising considering Saitama in this key is just a resilient guy with no formal combat experience while Big Show on the other hand is a respected wrestler with decades of experience
 
I know for sure once we make a Vince profile I'm putting him up against MCU Kingpin, I might need some time to think of a match up with the other superstars
 
DemonicDude said:
Verse Page Created:
Click to expand...
Speaking of adding stuff to the verse page, should we also add those guidelines for the scaling that @EliminatorVenom proposed?

  • Everyone Fights Everyone: Any character can wound or at least inflict pain upon each other in regular occasions. As I will explain a bit further on, the way to scale characters as beyond or below each other is to look how they match up conceptually, and to take into account the circumstances they fight on. See, for example the match between MVP and Mr. Kennedy against Undertaker and Kane. You will see that, during the whole fight, Undertaker and Kane are clearly the superior ones. MVP and Mr. Kennedy can cause them pain and inflict some damage, but they are clearly inferior. However, there are many moments there that either the Undertaker or Kane take the fight seriously, and they take no damage at all from their strikes. This is a common trope in fiction, but particularly glaring in wrestling. The Undertaker that is facing seven other guys in a Royal Rumble match is a completely different 'taker than the one who singlehandedly defeated the entire Smackdown roster.
  • Entrance Peak Energy: This is most noticeable in Royal Rumble matches, so I won't even link them, although if you guys really want a good example, look for the 2007, which is the one I am most familiar with and I can point out several times this happens. In any case, every fighter has a short-lived, extremely high-energy moment when they enter the ring. Even very low-tiered fighters often beat up high-tier ones for a few seconds and knock down several people on the ring before they, themselves are stopped. That is to introduce a bit more chaos andadrenaline into the fight, and a fighter's general performance should not be judged by how they perform in the first moments of a match, except in really egregious cases. In most matches this doesn't apply, as both fighters start out strong, but any fight that introduces someone in the middle of the fight, know that they will dominate the battle for a short time.
  • The Whole Is Stronger Than The Sum: A corny name, I know, but fighters who do attacks as a group do much more damage than alone. A bit hard to give examples, but Royal Rumbles are a good example of this, so 2007 is good too! (There's a better one, but sadly, I forgot the name) Somehow, when two wrestlers contribute to do a single attack, it does way more damage than they, separately (or even together without coordination) can do. Again, in the Undertaker and Kane V.S. MVP and Mr. Kennedy, the only times they did real damage, aside from cheap shots, were when they did coordinated attacks. Similarly, attacks that involve self-sacrifice (That are dangerous to the own user), from leaping from heights such as ropes, ladders or even the scaffolding (yes, really, that happens) and, obviously, with weapons often do way more damage than normal. Funnily enough about team attacks, often times wrestlers have a certain... Let's call it "partnership level" with each other. The better they work as a team, the higher we can consider that "level" to be. What do I mean by that? Wrestlers that are tag team champions, are brothers or have some sort of synergy often do more damage when doing combined attacks than teams that may be composed of individually stronger fighters, but without as much chemistry. In a Royal Rumble with specifications that I forgot, there was a tag team whose individual members were being beaten up hard bythe other fighters, but once they worked together, they eliminated practically half of the ring. Another example of that is how, in Royal Rumbles, many times fighters that have no experience in tag teaming with each other do combined attacks, but they are, seemingly, barely any more effective than their individual attacks.
 
Shmooply said:
Speaking of adding stuff to the verse page, should we also add those guidelines for the scaling that @EliminatorVenom proposed?

  • Everyone Fights Everyone: Any character can wound or at least inflict pain upon each other in regular occasions. As I will explain a bit further on, the way to scale characters as beyond or below each other is to look how they match up conceptually, and to take into account the circumstances they fight on. See, for example the match between MVP and Mr. Kennedy against Undertaker and Kane. You will see that, during the whole fight, Undertaker and Kane are clearly the superior ones. MVP and Mr. Kennedy can cause them pain and inflict some damage, but they are clearly inferior. However, there are many moments there that either the Undertaker or Kane take the fight seriously, and they take no damage at all from their strikes. This is a common trope in fiction, but particularly glaring in wrestling. The Undertaker that is facing seven other guys in a Royal Rumble match is a completely different 'taker than the one who singlehandedly defeated the entire Smackdown roster.
  • Entrance Peak Energy: This is most noticeable in Royal Rumble matches, so I won't even link them, although if you guys really want a good example, look for the 2007, which is the one I am most familiar with and I can point out several times this happens. In any case, every fighter has a short-lived, extremely high-energy moment when they enter the ring. Even very low-tiered fighters often beat up high-tier ones for a few seconds and knock down several people on the ring before they, themselves are stopped. That is to introduce a bit more chaos andadrenaline into the fight, and a fighter's general performance should not be judged by how they perform in the first moments of a match, except in really egregious cases. In most matches this doesn't apply, as both fighters start out strong, but any fight that introduces someone in the middle of the fight, know that they will dominate the battle for a short time.
  • The Whole Is Stronger Than The Sum: A corny name, I know, but fighters who do attacks as a group do much more damage than alone. A bit hard to give examples, but Royal Rumbles are a good example of this, so 2007 is good too! (There's a better one, but sadly, I forgot the name) Somehow, when two wrestlers contribute to do a single attack, it does way more damage than they, separately (or even together without coordination) can do. Again, in the Undertaker and Kane V.S. MVP and Mr. Kennedy, the only times they did real damage, aside from cheap shots, were when they did coordinated attacks. Similarly, attacks that involve self-sacrifice (That are dangerous to the own user), from leaping from heights such as ropes, ladders or even the scaffolding (yes, really, that happens) and, obviously, with weapons often do way more damage than normal. Funnily enough about team attacks, often times wrestlers have a certain... Let's call it "partnership level" with each other. The better they work as a team, the higher we can consider that "level" to be. What do I mean by that? Wrestlers that are tag team champions, are brothers or have some sort of synergy often do more damage when doing combined attacks than teams that may be composed of individually stronger fighters, but without as much chemistry. In a Royal Rumble with specifications that I forgot, there was a tag team whose individual members were being beaten up hard bythe other fighters, but once they worked together, they eliminated practically half of the ring. Another example of that is how, in Royal Rumbles, many times fighters that have no experience in tag teaming with each other do combined attacks, but they are, seemingly, barely any more effective than their individual attacks.
Click to expand...
I think this is a perfect scaling chain for the WWE verse.

God Tier: For the strongest wrestlers in the verse. More often than not, the god tier wrestlers like Undertaker and peak Kane has some hax. 'Normal' wrestlers like Hulk Hogan, Brock Lesnar, and Ultimate Warrior should be on this level as well. Characters who are slightly weaker like The Rock, Stone Cold, Triple H, John Cena, Roman Reigns, Chris Jericho, Randy Orton, Kurt Angle and more should be here as well.
Top Tier: For the main event level guys in the WWE. Characters who aren't god tier, but can still put up a good fight, and even occasionally defeat some of them. Wrestlers like Big Show and Mark Henry at their best, Seth Rollins, Rey Mysterio, and many more belong here.
High Tier: Best suited for characters that are considered "Upper Mid Carders." Characters that usually stand little to no chance against the God Tiers, but can put up really good fights against the main event level superstars, and even some of them arguably being on their level. Wrestlers like John Morrison, Dolph Ziggler and The Miz at their best, Cody Rhodes just to name a few.
Mid Tier: Certified mid carders in wrestling. Stomped by God Tiers, stands little chance against main eventers, and would put up very good fights against the upper mid carders, with some arguably being on that level. Wrestlers like Sami Zayn, Ricochet, most Tag Teams, Mr. Kennedy, Shelton Benjamin, and more belong in this tier.
Low Tier: Low mid carders to jobbers belong here. The strongest in the low tier can put up a good fight against some mid carders, and at best can do minimal damage to the upper mid carders. They get stomped by the top tiers and eviscerated by the god tiers. Characters like Curt Hawkins, Santino Marella, James Ellsworth, and more are in this tier.

One thing I noticed nobody mentioned was the women wrestlers. In my opinion, the strongest female wrestlers (Trish Stratus, Lita, AJ Lee, Eve at her best, Beth Phoenix, Charlotte Flair, Sasha Banks, Bailey, Becky Lynch, etc.) should all be put in High Tier. I'm 100% positive there were times where the female can inflict legit damage on some high tier leveled wrestlers. An example being Becky Lynch being able to harm Baron Corbin, who should be at the same level as wrestlers like John Morrison and Dolph Ziggler. Wrestlers like Chyna should be Top, and possibly even God Tier, as she was considered a threat to many of the top guys in the business like Triple H and Chris Jericho.

What about this?
 
Pikaman said:
I’m iffy on teleportation and disagree with manipulation to death manipulation as well as mind manipulation (should just be social influencing)
Click to expand...
Why disagree with Death ? also Cole never used any words to convince strong to join his team he just stared at them and he joined (Scan) so no action of influencing him was used during the match or backstage.
 
Last edited:
DemonicDude said:
It's the same character, same name, same group, same moves and even referenced his fued/run in NXT.
Click to expand...
I see. Then he should be fine, though I don't think he's supposed to be a composite then unless NXT, AEW and WWE are all set in different universes or whatever.
 
Shmooply said:
Speaking of adding stuff to the verse page, should we also add those guidelines for the scaling that @EliminatorVenom proposed?

  • Everyone Fights Everyone: Any character can wound or at least inflict pain upon each other in regular occasions. As I will explain a bit further on, the way to scale characters as beyond or below each other is to look how they match up conceptually, and to take into account the circumstances they fight on. See, for example the match between MVP and Mr. Kennedy against Undertaker and Kane. You will see that, during the whole fight, Undertaker and Kane are clearly the superior ones. MVP and Mr. Kennedy can cause them pain and inflict some damage, but they are clearly inferior. However, there are many moments there that either the Undertaker or Kane take the fight seriously, and they take no damage at all from their strikes. This is a common trope in fiction, but particularly glaring in wrestling. The Undertaker that is facing seven other guys in a Royal Rumble match is a completely different 'taker than the one who singlehandedly defeated the entire Smackdown roster.
  • Entrance Peak Energy: This is most noticeable in Royal Rumble matches, so I won't even link them, although if you guys really want a good example, look for the 2007, which is the one I am most familiar with and I can point out several times this happens. In any case, every fighter has a short-lived, extremely high-energy moment when they enter the ring. Even very low-tiered fighters often beat up high-tier ones for a few seconds and knock down several people on the ring before they, themselves are stopped. That is to introduce a bit more chaos andadrenaline into the fight, and a fighter's general performance should not be judged by how they perform in the first moments of a match, except in really egregious cases. In most matches this doesn't apply, as both fighters start out strong, but any fight that introduces someone in the middle of the fight, know that they will dominate the battle for a short time.
  • The Whole Is Stronger Than The Sum: A corny name, I know, but fighters who do attacks as a group do much more damage than alone. A bit hard to give examples, but Royal Rumbles are a good example of this, so 2007 is good too! (There's a better one, but sadly, I forgot the name) Somehow, when two wrestlers contribute to do a single attack, it does way more damage than they, separately (or even together without coordination) can do. Again, in the Undertaker and Kane V.S. MVP and Mr. Kennedy, the only times they did real damage, aside from cheap shots, were when they did coordinated attacks. Similarly, attacks that involve self-sacrifice (That are dangerous to the own user), from leaping from heights such as ropes, ladders or even the scaffolding (yes, really, that happens) and, obviously, with weapons often do way more damage than normal. Funnily enough about team attacks, often times wrestlers have a certain... Let's call it "partnership level" with each other. The better they work as a team, the higher we can consider that "level" to be. What do I mean by that? Wrestlers that are tag team champions, are brothers or have some sort of synergy often do more damage when doing combined attacks than teams that may be composed of individually stronger fighters, but without as much chemistry. In a Royal Rumble with specifications that I forgot, there was a tag team whose individual members were being beaten up hard bythe other fighters, but once they worked together, they eliminated practically half of the ring. Another example of that is how, in Royal Rumbles, many times fighters that have no experience in tag teaming with each other do combined attacks, but they are, seemingly, barely any more effective than their individual attacks.
Click to expand...
RandomGuy2345 said:
I think this is a perfect scaling chain for the WWE verse.

God Tier: For the strongest wrestlers in the verse. More often than not, the god tier wrestlers like Undertaker and peak Kane has some hax. 'Normal' wrestlers like Hulk Hogan, Brock Lesnar, and Ultimate Warrior should be on this level as well. Characters who are slightly weaker like The Rock, Stone Cold, Triple H, John Cena, Roman Reigns, Chris Jericho, Randy Orton, Kurt Angle and more should be here as well.
Top Tier: For the main event level guys in the WWE. Characters who aren't god tier, but can still put up a good fight, and even occasionally defeat some of them. Wrestlers like Big Show and Mark Henry at their best, Seth Rollins, Rey Mysterio, and many more belong here.
High Tier: Best suited for characters that are considered "Upper Mid Carders." Characters that usually stand little to no chance against the God Tiers, but can put up really good fights against the main event level superstars, and even some of them arguably being on their level. Wrestlers like John Morrison, Dolph Ziggler and The Miz at their best, Cody Rhodes just to name a few.
Mid Tier: Certified mid carders in wrestling. Stomped by God Tiers, stands little chance against main eventers, and would put up very good fights against the upper mid carders, with some arguably being on that level. Wrestlers like Sami Zayn, Ricochet, most Tag Teams, Mr. Kennedy, Shelton Benjamin, and more belong in this tier.
Low Tier: Low mid carders to jobbers belong here. The strongest in the low tier can put up a good fight against some mid carders, and at best can do minimal damage to the upper mid carders. They get stomped by the top tiers and eviscerated by the god tiers. Characters like Curt Hawkins, Santino Marella, James Ellsworth, and more are in this tier.

One thing I noticed nobody mentioned was the women wrestlers. In my opinion, the strongest female wrestlers (Trish Stratus, Lita, AJ Lee, Eve at her best, Beth Phoenix, Charlotte Flair, Sasha Banks, Bailey, Becky Lynch, etc.) should all be put in High Tier. I'm 100% positive there were times where the female can inflict legit damage on some high tier leveled wrestlers. An example being Becky Lynch being able to harm Baron Corbin, who should be at the same level as wrestlers like John Morrison and Dolph Ziggler. Wrestlers like Chyna should be Top, and possibly even God Tier, as she was considered a threat to many of the top guys in the business like Triple H and Chris Jericho.

What about this?
Click to expand...
In terms of AP and Tiers for the In-Verse Tiers we have now, idk if these have already been figured out but I put something together.

God Tiers: (9-B) 1.94 Megajoules (Scale to the explosion feat)

Top Tiers: (9-B) 0.27 Megajoules (Table Feat)

High Tiers: (9-B) < 0.27 Megajoules

Mid Tiers: (At least 9-C, likely 9-B) << 0.27 Megajoules

Low Tiers: (At least 9-C, possibly 9-B) <<< 0.27 Megajoules

There's also this (made by @Pikaman).

I'm iffy on some of the values, though.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
In terms of AP and Tiers for the In-Verse Tiers we have now, idk if these have already been figured out but I put something together.

God Tiers: (9-B) 1.94 Megajoules (Scale to the explosion feat)

Top Tiers: (9-B) 0.27 Megajoules (Table Feat)

High Tiers: (9-B) < 0.27 Megajoules

Mid Tiers: (At least 9-C, likely 9-B) << 0.27 Megajoules

Low Tiers: (At least 9-C, possibly 9-B) <<< 0.27 Megajoules

There's also this (made by @Pikaman).

I'm iffy on some of the values, though.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I’m working on revising this atm
 
DemonicDude said:
Why disagree with Death ? also Cole never used any words to convine strong to join his team he just stared at them and he joined (Scan) so no action of influencing him was used during the match or backstage.
Click to expand...
There was likely some off camera negotiations that happened, it’s not justifiable for Mind Control or anything like that, WWE would make a way bigger point of that

As for Death, Death manipulation isn’t the ability to kill someone, it’s essentially hax that are designed to cause death, like Avada Kedavra in Harry Potter, killing someone with poison isn’t death manipulation, just poison manipulation
 
Pikaman said:
There was likely some off camera negotiations that happened, it’s not justifiable for Mind Control or anything like that, WWE would make a way bigger point of that

As for Death, Death manipulation isn’t the ability to kill someone, it’s essentially hax that are designed to cause death, like Avada Kedavra in Harry Potter, killing someone with poison isn’t death manipulation, just poison manipulation
Click to expand...
He has resistance to death manip he does not have death manip.
 
Actually wait, he DID die to the poison, but was revived? Then he doesn’t resist poison manip lol it literally killed him, if it wasn’t for Type 4 Immortality he would’ve been ☠️
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
I think this is a perfect scaling chain for the WWE verse.

God Tier: For the strongest wrestlers in the verse. More often than not, the god tier wrestlers like Undertaker and peak Kane has some hax. 'Normal' wrestlers like Hulk Hogan, Brock Lesnar, and Ultimate Warrior should be on this level as well. Characters who are slightly weaker like The Rock, Stone Cold, Triple H, John Cena, Roman Reigns, Chris Jericho, Randy Orton, Kurt Angle and more should be here as well.
Top Tier: For the main event level guys in the WWE. Characters who aren't god tier, but can still put up a good fight, and even occasionally defeat some of them. Wrestlers like Big Show and Mark Henry at their best, Seth Rollins, Rey Mysterio, and many more belong here.
High Tier: Best suited for characters that are considered "Upper Mid Carders." Characters that usually stand little to no chance against the God Tiers, but can put up really good fights against the main event level superstars, and even some of them arguably being on their level. Wrestlers like John Morrison, Dolph Ziggler and The Miz at their best, Cody Rhodes just to name a few.
Mid Tier: Certified mid carders in wrestling. Stomped by God Tiers, stands little chance against main eventers, and would put up very good fights against the upper mid carders, with some arguably being on that level. Wrestlers like Sami Zayn, Ricochet, most Tag Teams, Mr. Kennedy, Shelton Benjamin, and more belong in this tier.
Low Tier: Low mid carders to jobbers belong here. The strongest in the low tier can put up a good fight against some mid carders, and at best can do minimal damage to the upper mid carders. They get stomped by the top tiers and eviscerated by the god tiers. Characters like Curt Hawkins, Santino Marella, James Ellsworth, and more are in this tier.

One thing I noticed nobody mentioned was the women wrestlers. In my opinion, the strongest female wrestlers (Trish Stratus, Lita, AJ Lee, Eve at her best, Beth Phoenix, Charlotte Flair, Sasha Banks, Bailey, Becky Lynch, etc.) should all be put in High Tier. I'm 100% positive there were times where the female can inflict legit damage on some high tier leveled wrestlers. An example being Becky Lynch being able to harm Baron Corbin, who should be at the same level as wrestlers like John Morrison and Dolph Ziggler. Wrestlers like Chyna should be Top, and possibly even God Tier, as she was considered a threat to many of the top guys in the business like Triple H and Chris Jericho.

What about this?
Click to expand...
I think splitting the tier into three is better and less complicated

1 (God Tier or Top Tier or High Tier) = big superstars/divas and main eventers who have won several world championship titles or who are written as being very physically strong

2 (Mid Tier) = The midcard

3 (Low Tier) = jobbers and low mid carders
 
Last edited:
And wrestlers who have won a world championship title or twice but who have been considered midcard superstars or less for the majority of their careers such as The Miz, Kofi Kingston, Jinder Mahal or Dolph Ziggler should not be counted in the top tier (well, everyone may already know it, but it doesn't hurt to remember it.)
 
Hakim said:
I think splitting the tier into three is better and less complicated

1 (God Tier or Top Tier or High Tier) = big superstars/divas and main eventers who have won several world championship titles or who are written as being very physically strong

2 (Mid Tier) = The midcard

3 (Low Tier) = jobbers and low mid carders
Click to expand...
I’d disagree, there’s very clear definitions and differences in the power levels of the three “high” tiers that need to be there.
 
Pikaman said:
I’d disagree, there’s very clear definitions and differences in the power levels of the three “high” tiers that need to be there.
Click to expand...
And the best is to do it like this :

  • High Tier = Main eventers
  • Mid Tier = Mid carders
  • Low Tier = Jobbers/Low carders
Separating the Main eventers into God and Top Tier and the Mid carders into High and Mid Tier will be more complicated I think.
 
Hakim said:
And the best is to do it like this :

  • High Tier = Main eventers
  • Mid Tier = Mid carders
  • Low Tier = Jobbers/Low carders
Separating the Main eventers into God and Top Tier and the Mid carders into High and Mid Tier will be more complicated I think.
Click to expand...
I mean, we already have AP Values for each of the Tiers worked out, it’s not super complicated


God Tier: >>1.94 Megajoules (Stomp Mr. McMahon)

Top Tier: >1.94 Megajoules - 1.94 Megajoules (Defeats Mr. McMahon with some effort)

High Tier: <1.94 Megajoules - 0.62 Megajoules (Aren't on the level of Top and God Tiers)

Mid Tier: <0.62 Megajoules (Aren't on the level of High Tiers)

Low Tier: 0.31 Megajoules (Aren't on the level of Mid Tiers)
 
Pikaman said:
I mean, we already have AP Values for each of the Tiers worked out, it’s not super complicated


God Tier: >>1.94 Megajoules (Stomp Mr. McMahon)

Top Tier: >1.94 Megajoules - 1.94 Megajoules (Defeats Mr. McMahon with some effort)

High Tier: <1.94 Megajoules - 0.62 Megajoules (Aren't on the level of Top and God Tiers)

Mid Tier: <0.62 Megajoules (Aren't on the level of High Tiers)

Low Tier: 0.31 Megajoules (Aren't on the level of Mid Tiers)
Click to expand...
The problem is mainly having to separate Seth Rollins and Randy Orton in a different tier, or even Sami Zayn and John Morrison.
There is no real sense, the explanations for separating them are not really good.

Seth Rollins should just be in the same tier as a John Cena, Randy Orton or Roman Regins, same for Sami Zayn in the tier of Dolph Ziggler and The Miz
 
Hakim said:
The problem is mainly having to separate Seth Rollins and Randy Orton in a different tier, or even Sami Zayn and John Morrison.
There is no real sense, the explanations for separating them are not really good.

Seth Rollins should just be in the same tier as a John Cena, Randy Orton or Roman Regins, same for Sami Zayn in the tier of Dolph Ziggler and The Miz
Click to expand...
I strongly disagree, and I think the power levels and hierarchy in WWE is far more complex than you’re giving it credit for, but agree to disagree I guess
 
Pikaman said:
I strongly disagree, and I think the power levels and hierarchy in WWE is far more complex than you’re giving it credit for, but agree to disagree I guess
Click to expand...
I don't think it's that complex, at least not between mid carders.
As for the main eventers maybe ok, but suddenly I see the tier more like this:
  • WWE faces and superstars written as extremely powerful: Andre the Giant, Hulk Hogan, Ultimate Warrior, Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, John Cena, Undertaker (mostly at Wrestlemania), Brock Lesnar, Roman Reigns, Goldberg, The Fiend, Braun Strowman, etc
  • And then the other main eventers, slightly below: Triple H, Randy Orton, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, Seth Rollins, Edge, Big Show, CM Punk, etc.
 
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