Woody vs. Goku

[Soupywolf5]

Except there's nothing wrong with the AP argument as it's still the main reason for Woody winning more reasons were just brought up alongside it

And Goku wouldn't know to open with KaioKen, before a 6.5x AP advantage blasts through him.
And this has already been addressed as well. He can

A. Use Kaioken while beaten half to death

B. Has better skill and can dodge as speed is equal

C. Woody's not a projectile and doesn't lead with his Fire Cracker

^ There's a lot wrong with AP GG argument. It's also ignoring Goku has flight.

And no one voted for the other reasons which are negligible anyway.

A. He wouldn't be beaten half to death he would just be dead (Or mostly dead)

B. While this is true he still wouldn't initially take Woody seriously (No SBA doesn't make this moot)

C. He doesn't need Rocket Ruckus to hit him a few times at the beginning

 

[HST_Master]

A. He wouldn't be beaten half to death he would just be dead (Or mostly dead)

He could barely move and still use Kaioken.

B. While this is true he still wouldn't take Woody seriously (No SBA doesn't make this moot)

SBA gives him intent to kill.

C. He doesn't need Rocket Ruckus to hit him a few times at the beginning

You're relies on him "blasting through" Goku as a way to kill him, which given that he's not a projectile has no way to do this is also ignoring

-Skill difference that wpody would even touch him

-Lifting difference as Woody is a toy, he can get grabbed and stepped on and his otherwise helpless.

-His range is terrible, Goku has several ranged attacks with AoE that woody will be caught in no matter what.

 

[Soupywolf5]

C. He doesn't need Rocket Ruckus to hit him a few times at the beginning
You're relies on him "blasting through" Goku as a way to kill him, which given that he's not a projectile has no way to do this is also ignoring

-Skill difference that wpody would even touch him

-Lifting difference as Woody is a toy, he can get grabbed and stepped on and his otherwise helpless.

-His range is terrible, Goku has several ranged attacks with AoE that woody will be caught in no matter what.

I'm not saying he would blast through him (That was an exaggeration) I'm saying he would kill him with just a few hits

Also the lifting strength difference wouldn't matter if Goku couldn't grab him (And with his small size he could avoid that)

His range wouldn't matter when he can close any gap between them really fast due to MFTL+ speeds (And if Goku tried to make some distance then because speed is equal they wouldn't really be getting anywhere)

 

[HST_Master]

Also the lifting strength difference wouldn't matter if Goku couldn't grab him (And with his small size he could avoid that)

.....I feel like you're just ignoring Gregory at this point. Small Size is completely irrelevant to Goku.

His range wouldn't matter when he can close any gap between them really fast due to MFTL+ speeds (And if Goku tried to make some distance then because speed is equal they wouldn't really be getting anywhere)

Yes it would considering

A. It's the same speed.

B. Goku has flight. He can fly as high as he likes while Woody cannot, as you yourself has acknowledged Rocket Ruckus's range is pathethicaly low.

 

[Joaco0902]

hey I think hst master has a point...

 

[Soupywolf5]

Woody Can actually abuse his small size (And you even acknowledged Woody's size would let him dodge Goku's physical attacks)

Fly really high and then what? nuke the ground below him? From that distance Woody would have ample time to dodge his attacks and while Goku has heightened senses Woody's stealth mastery would certainly help when Goku's so far above him

 

[HST_Master]

Bob, Central Park has a lake. And it's a toy. It's not in character for him to fight it in the 1st place. And like I said before, he's not above taking advantage of his opponents weaknesses. Oh and the argument that he's small so Goku can't hit him doesn't really hold much wait either considering Goku can hit Gregory who's even smaller.

^ In which case I then mentioned Gregory.

Fly really high and then what? nuke the ground below him? From that distance Woody would have ample time to dodge his attacks and while Goku has heightened senses Woody's stealth mastery would certainly help when Goku's so far above him

No it wouldn't. Considering Woody's still a toy and all the blasts are the speed as him he will get hit and bombarded by them and caught in the blast radius as some point. And no it won't. He's had the ability to see small objects over large distances since he was a kid.

Woody's only advantage is AP while Goku has the versatility to counter.

 

[Soupywolf5]

Unless he's using KKX10 for all of that then the energy blasts will do little to no damage

 

[Soupywolf5]

Also yes he's a toy. A toy that can punch with the energy of multiple supernovas, and move at similar speeds to Goku. And if Goku's flying really high in the air then yeah Woody absolutely would be able to dodge his attacks

 

[HST_Master]

Unless he's using KKX10 for all of that then the energy blasts will do little to no damage

And nothing stops him from using it. Also stealth mastery is useless as well besides being countered by enhanced senses; Goku's Blasts would clear out the park and most of if not all of Manhattan along with it if Ki control wasn't a thing. He'd be plain as day to see, enhanced senses or no.

 

[Soupywolf5]

Would he really destroy all of Manhattan to kill Woody? He definitely doesn't seem like the kind of fighter to start a fight against a seemingly harmless doll by going KKX10 and nuking a city

 

[HST_Master]

Also yes he's a toy. A toy that can punch with the energy of multiple supernovas, and move at similar speeds to Goku. And if Goku's flying really high in the air then yeah Woody absolutely would be able to dodge his attacks

Also yes he's a toy. A toy that can punch with the energy of multiple supernovas, and move at similar speeds to Goku.

This would matter with him getting caught in his blasts how?

Goku's flying really high in the air then yeah Woody absolutely would be able to dodge his attacks

No, he wouldn't, they're moving at the exact same speed as he is and has huge AoE. Simply saying that he could dodge them because Goku's far away is faulty.

 

[Soupywolf5]

Also you seem to be misinterpreting what SBA does to characters. Goku would just be willing to kill Woody he would still make the same mistakes, he wouldn't not underestimate him just because he's willing to kill him

 

[HST_Master]

Also you seem to be misinterpreting what SBA does to characters. Goku would just be willing to kill Woody he would still make the same mistakes, he wouldn't not underestimate him just because he's willing to kill him

And he's never fought a toy to say that he would "make the same mistakes."

 

[Soupywolf5]

Also yes he's a toy. A toy that can punch with the energy of multiple supernovas, and move at similar speeds to Goku. And if Goku's flying really high in the air then yeah Woody absolutely would be able to dodge his attacks

Also yes he's a toy. A toy that can punch with the energy of multiple supernovas, and move at similar speeds to Goku.
This would matter with him getting caught in his blasts how?

Goku's flying really high in the air then yeah Woody absolutely would be able to dodge his attacks

No, he wouldn't, they're moving at the exact same speed as he is and has huge AoE. Simply saying that he could dodge them because Goku's far away is faulty.

Because unless he goes KKX10 basically right at the beginning of the battle he gets killed by pure AP and if he blasts him without KKx10 then his blasts will be 6.5x less then Woody's durability, their AoE doesn't matter when they're barely doing any damage.

 

[Soupywolf5]

And even if he gets KKx10 off he only gets a 1.5x AP advantage

 

[Soupywolf5]

Also you seem to be misinterpreting what SBA does to characters. Goku would just be willing to kill Woody he would still make the same mistakes, he wouldn't not underestimate him just because he's willing to kill him

And he's never fought a toy to say that he would "make the same mistakes."

By same mistakes I mean like the same mistakes he would make even if he wasn't willing to kill

 

[HST_Master]

Because unless he goes KKX10 basically right at the beginning of the battle he gets killed by pure AP and if he blasts him without KKx10 then his blasts will be 6.5x less then Woody's durability, their AoE doesn't matter when they're barely doing any damage.

This is again, assuming that woody gets a hit ot mutliple by the time Goku widens the gap between them. And dude, there's nothing stopping him from using Kaioken, so why are you bringing up his blasts will do no damage.

And even if he gets KKx10 off he only gets a 1.5x AP advantage

And woody loses the sole advantage he had and Goku gains Versatility and AP.

 

[Soupywolf5]

Because unless he goes KKX10 basically right at the beginning of the battle he gets killed by pure AP and if he blasts him without KKx10 then his blasts will be 6.5x less then Woody's durability, their AoE doesn't matter when they're barely doing any damage.
This is again, assuming that woody gets a hit ot mutliple by the time Goku widens the gap between them. And dude, there's nothing stopping him from using Kaioken, so why are you bringing up his blasts will do no damage.

Nothing's stopping him he's just not likely to use KKx10 before Woody kills him

 

[HST_Master]

Nothing's stopping him he's just not likely to use KKx10 before Woody kills him

And this is highly assumptive. Especially since woody wouldn't know to beat him before he uses it.

 

[Soupywolf5]

Nothing's stopping him he's just not likely to use KKx10 before Woody kills himAnd this is highly assumptive. Especially since woody wouldn't know to beat him before he uses it.

It's also pretty assumptive to say he would start all out against Woody, when he has no experience fighting someone like Woody (He didn't really fight Gregory), while Woody has experience fighting larger foes (Heh get it?), although not quite as large as Goku. And he's also willing to kill Goku

 

[HST_Master]

It's also pretty assumptive to say he would start all out against Woody, when he has no experience fighting someone like Woody (He didn't really fight Gregory), while Woody has experience fighting larger foes (Heh get it?), although not quite as large as Goku. And he's also willing to kill Goku

Didn't say he would go all, simply said he'd be quick to use Kaioken, there's a difference. And again, he has experience catching and tagging Gregory, as he had to in order to continue his training, everyone did. Woody's only experience fighting "larger foes" were other toys with Sora, Donald, Goofy, and Buzz who were also toys. He's never fought actual Grown Human beings. And no I don't

 

[Soupywolf5]

It's also pretty assumptive to say he would start all out against Woody, when he has no experience fighting someone like Woody (He didn't really fight Gregory), while Woody has experience fighting larger foes (Heh get it?), although not quite as large as Goku. And he's also willing to kill Goku

Didn't say he would go all, simply said he'd be quick to use Kaioken, there's a difference. And again, he has experience catching and tagging Gregory, as he had to in order to continue his training, everyone did. Woody's only experience fighting "larger foes" were other toys with Sora, Donald, Goofy, and Buzz who were also toys. He's never fought actual Grown Human beings. And no I don't
Yes catching him, not fighting him. And I said none of them were as large as Goku but since Goku's so much bigger that would encourage Woody to start by hitting him as hard as possible (And he would actually probably use Rocket Ruckus early in that case) Everyone beith a Critic

 

[Soupywolf5]

Bloodlust Woody ovo

 

[HST_Master]

If you can catch something, you can hit it especially since he passed by hitting him. Again Speed is Equal. And again that doesn't mean he'd use RR off the bat, or that it's not dodgable. As soon as Goku gets in the air or uses Kaioken it's his win. Woody would have to blitz to prevent that which he can't cuz as soon as Goku notices a toy is as fast as he is, it's Kaioken time or yeeting time.

And I genuinely didn't get it.

 

[Soupywolf5]

Why would seeing Woody is as fast as him encourage him to use Kaio-Ken? (He's actually faster but you know speed equal and all) If anything that would cause Goku to not use it since he would try to get a good fight (In which case Woody gets his hits and it's done). And the joke was cuz they're star level characters so...foe...you know? Why do I even bother?

 

[HST_Master]

Why would seeing Woody is as fast as him encourage him to use Kaio-Ken? (He's actually faster but you know speed equal and all) If anything that would cause Goku to not use it since he would try to get a good fight (In which case Woody gets his hits and it's done). And the joke was cuz they're star level characters so...foe...you know?

Why? You're argument is that he definitely wouldn't take woody seriously because he's a toy, seeing that woody is as fast as him undermines that and Namek Goku is the last time he's really trigger happy with Kaioken. Not to mention the "Woody will kill him before he uses it" argument is faulty given that he can even activate it while being hit. If Woody gets a hit, he immediately responds with Kaioken to close that gap as even x5 leads to less than 1 AP difference. And I get it now.

 

[Soupywolf5]

It's because I know nothing about debating

Except when that hit nearly kills him, and if he just uses standard KaioKen then the gap is still 3.25x. If he sees Woody is as fast as him he won't automatically think that he's stupidly stronger then him

 

[HST_Master]

He only uses x5 and x10 in Namek He uses x100 too but that's restricted . And strength scales to speed in DB. So if he sees Woody's as fast he's gonna automatically assume he's as strong and if he's hit he's definitely gonna know and respond with Kaioken. Woody would again need to Blitz and somehow prevent Goku from going Kaioken or just jumping or flying.

He only needs x5 to make AP not a problem

He needs x10 to give himself the advantage.

 

[Soupywolf5]

He only uses x5 and x10 in Namek He uses x100 too but that's restricted . And strength scales to speed in DB. So if he sees Woody's as fast he's gonna automatically assume he's as strong and if he's hit he's definitely gonna know and respond with Kaioken. Woody would again need to Blitz and somehow prevent Goku from going Kaioken or just jumping or flying.
He only needs x5 to make AP not a problem

He needs x10 to give himself the advantage.

Ahh....screw it GG Goku FRA

 

[Soupywolf5]

If the Woody votes really are nulled then:

Woody: 2 (Apex PredatorX his vote was after KaioKen was added,Joaco0902 revoted)

Goku: 6 (Ionliosite, Frieza force soldier 100, Ted Ed, Anomalous N I W D E, Soupywolf5, Hst master you are voting Goku right?)

 

[HST_Master]

A Goku thread that didn't go to shit Hallelujah And yes I am.

 

[Soupywolf5]

Alright then Goku just needs 1 more vote

Now to remake the same thing but with bloodlusted Woody ovo

 

[Soupywolf5]

Also since Base Goku's now less than one foe KKx20 Goku shouldn't be 4-B anymore

 

[HST_Master]

And I asked the one who calc'd it. He said he probably made a mistake but he didn't specify whether it was with the Joules or the foe. Oh and he'd still be 4-B. Frieza 50% has a 4-B feat.

 

[Soupywolf5]

Oh no I'm aware of Frieza's 4-B feat

 

[Soupywolf5]

No I'm not that's a lie. What is it?

 

[HST_Master]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Kepekley23/Dragon_Ball:_Anime_Freeza_destroys_Namek

 

[Soupywolf5]

Alright, thanks

 

[Frieza_force_soldier_100]

Another thing; Goku wouldn't underestimate Woody because ki sense enables him to tell how powerful Woody really is.