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Winter Soldier vs Claire Stanfield

Considering the stomp chain, Clare's probably about equal to Steve, but yeah, looking at what you said, Bucky should be stronger.
 
And somehow this is the third time this happens.

I try to make a matchup for a character I think is underrated on the website, and their opponent happens to receive an upgrade at the same time.
 
Bucky's not stomping or anything though, but I think that AP gap is enough to win, since even though I'd argue Claire is more skilled in general, he certainly lacks experience beating physically stronger opponents.

I'll vote Bucky with difficulty.
 
Alright, that's what I was worried about.

Although where did we get the idea that Bucky is 3x stronger? Claire's strength is a complete unknown, aside from the fact that he's casually stronger than three 9-As combined.
 
I'll also have to go with Vino. He recognizes Christoper, who "matched him", as the third strongest person he's meet after himself and the Assassin Felix Walker, whose name he purchased. He still effortlessly blitzed and defeated him in a single strike once he was done playing. Despite this, not even here he was going all out.

Alongside the pure skill advantage seeing how he has battled people that have tons more experience than Bucky, I think it leans towards Vino. He wins with difficulty, as Bucky is still skilled and I don't doubt the Bioarm is stronger.
 
Jordanbairdcreaturemaster97 said:
Ah, right, we don't calc-stack. Fudge.
Click to expand...
That's not calc stacking. Stomp chains are still valid reasons for saying someone's much stronger than someone. Steve being 3x baseline by no means makes him 3x Claire.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
I'll also have to go with Vino. He recognizes Christoper, who "matched him", as the third strongest person he's meet after himself and the Assassin Felix Walker, whose name he purchased. He still effortlessly blitzed and defeated him in a single strike once he was done playing. Despite this, not even here he was going all out.

Alongside the pure skill advantage seeing how he has battled people that have tons more experience than Bucky, I think it leans towards Vino. He wins with difficulty, as Bucky is still skilled and I don't doubt the Bioarm is stronger
Click to expand...
Make a CRT
 
Necromancy spell
I have seen fit to bring this thread back from its grave, as I wish to see it concluded, and also have my own arguments to put forth on the matter.

No need to panic. This won't kill any of you. Probably.
 
Lemme guess after all my arguing King is voting Claire and then I have basically lost
 
Let's start with something easy.

>Weapons

I'm afraid these won't do much, sadly. Even lesser characters in Baccano can easily time bullets and shotgun pellets as well as react to all manner of projectiles comparable to what Bucky has, and Claire has not only made them all look like complete asses, but also dodged bullets and such without even trying. One time, he even dodged a sniper round (or something like that) with his back turned, while talking to his soon-to-be lover Chane.

Melee weapons don't mean much either. Chane is a knife wielder who can consistently cut bullets out of the air, and Claire easily outmatched her. Ladd is stated to be able to punch as fast as bullets, and has kicked Graham's flying, ricocheting wrench out of the air while it was coming at him from behind, and Claire evaded his punches with ease, even doing a handstand on Ladd's arm at one point. Graham has caught bullets in midair with his wrench, as well as perfectly dismantled an automobile while juggling it (without it touching the ground until it was fully taken apart), and he couldn't even touch Claire with his wrench, with the latter even doing a handstand on his wrench from a sitting position when he tried hitting him with it. And so on.

Which brings me to my next point:

>Skill

Sorry, I don't think Bucky's combat skill comes anywhere close to Claire's, and I'm actually really disappointed that nobody brought up Claire's raw feats in this area. Beyond the stuff I already mentioned above:

One time, when two people tried to attack him (one from the front, another from behind), Claire used the reflection from the first person's eyes to see the second person coming, and proceeded to effortlessly defeat both of them in a matter of seconds.

Another time before that, Ladd tried fighting him atop a moving train. At one point while evading this man's strikes, he effectively did a backwards Smooth Criminal lean off the edge of the train while it was still going full-speed, then frontflipped over Ladd's head when the latter tried punching him again, from that position. Bear in mind that on top of having fists that are apparently as fast as bullets, Ladd is a trained boxer.

MCU Bucky isn't even close to this guy in terms of raw combat skill, and the only actual advantage he would have in a physical fight is AP, more due to vagueness on Claire's side than anything else.

Speaking of:

>AP

There is a feat of Ladd Russo shaking an entire room with a punch, and also a feat of him punching through a steel prison door. Does anyone have the scans/quotes for these feats? I know someone who can probably calc them.

Claire can one-shot Christopher, who is above Ladd significantly. So these are important.
 
No idea, but considering how little support Baccano has had on this site thus far, I doubt it.

Which is a shame, seeing as both Baccano and Durarara have a good number of feats that would make for solid Tier 9 stuff.
 
I already noted that Bucky should be stronger, at least until something on Claire's end is actually calc'd.

My main point is that this is really the only advantage he has against Claire. As far as his actual abilities and options, he doesn't have anything that Claire hasn't spent his entire series openly mocking. And the moment Claire gets within melee range (which is more or less inevitable in this scenario), Claire won't have any trouble dodging him indefinitely, seeing as guys with much better-- and in some cases, weirder-- skill showings than Bucky can't even touch Claire in a physical fight, and Claire himself also has better skill feats.

Also, it seems only the second end was accepted, and that's just over 3x baseline. Even if we assume baseline for Graham (the weakest 9-A in the chain for Baccano, IIRC), Ladd was barely affected by an attack from him, Christopher is stronger than Ladd, and Claire one-shots Christopher. So the difference between Bucky (who easily overpowered 3x baseline) and Claire (who one-shots a guy stronger than a guy who easily tanked an attack from a baseline) shouldn't be overwhelming enough to mitigate Claire being a ridiculously better fighter in general.
 
GilgaArcuied said:
Graham specter is actually stronger than ladd.
Click to expand...
That's factually not the truth, seeing as Graham barely even fazed him with an attack, while one of Ladd's attacks left him on the floor indefinitely. Ladd also has better AP feats in general from my recollection; the room-shaking feat alone is more than anything I can remember Graham doing.

Edwardtruong2006 said:
Uhh...
Bucky also scales to these

15x baseline
Click to expand...
That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Spidey overpowered Bucky when they fought. Even had that whole moment where he caught one of his punches without even trying. ("You've got a metal arm? That is awesome!")

Cap never did any overly significant harm to him either (only kicked him a couple of times, and he got up from those easily), so scaling it that way doesn't work very well either. Spidey should logically be much stronger than both of them, meaning his feats are his own, not theirs.
 
Iron Man said in Homecoming something like they were going especially easy on Spidey and if they wanted to beat him, they could iirc.
 
also worth noting that ladd trained graham himself after that fight. hes a much better fighter than before, as clearly shown that he holds the upper hand against chane without much difficulty, as compared to ladd who was more or less onpar.
 
Did that really need three separate comments?

I don't remember the points where Ladd says Graham is stronger than him (although the last time I read the books was a while back, and I can't even find them anymore these days), but the scene of him hitting Ladd clearly shows Ladd grinning afterwards and openly mocking him for his effort, basically unimpressed. He even says something like "did you really think you could do something to me with this little toy?" (your translation may vary), which would further imply that he's the physically superior of the two by some leaps and bounds.

Being a more skilled fighter than before doesn't make him physically stronger, also. It just means he can fight better.
 
I don't know what headcanon you're going off of but by canon standards graham is stated to be stronger.

your post doesn't actually address anything i said I just told you that he beat graham mentally not physically. Ladd is not stronger than Graham.
 
If he were stronger, Ladd wouldn't have shrugged off his attack the way he did, not when Graham was clearly not holding back. He would have been visibly inconvenienced by it, which he wasn't. That's what I'm saying.

And there's really no need for the tone. I'm talking to you normally; you should do the same.

Jordanbairdcreaturemaster97 said:
Oh god my child has risen, thank you Mr King
Click to expand...
Uhh, what.
 
I would honestly say Ladd and Graham are equals. I've heard there is a line in which Ladd tells Graham that he would be stronger than him if he stopped holding back out of guilt.
 
mm, I was just testing you this entire time.

Otherwise you would know that Ladd and Graham have never actually fought in the series. i╠Ân╠ ╠Ât╠Âh╠Âe╠ ╠Âl╠Âi╠Âg╠Âh╠Ât╠Ân╠Âo╠Âv╠Âe╠Âl╠ ╠Âa╠Ân╠Ây╠Âw╠Âa╠Ây╠Â

Though the anime doesn't show anything else to support it either, even if it isn't canon.

I'm guessing if you read the lightnovels you picked up from where the anime leftoff
 
The profiles we have draw info from both the anime and the light novels, so that doesn't mean anything.

I was under the impression you knew that.
 
Jordanbairdcreaturemaster97 said:
I would honestly say Ladd and Graham are equals. I've heard there is a line in which Ladd tells Graham that he would be stronger than him if he stopped holding back out of guilt.
Click to expand...
this is true. Graham holds back sometimes due to his feelings against who he is fighting. Though there are other lines where ladd just straightup says Graham is better than him.

@MrKing just because the profiles say so doesn't make it canon. Though honestly the anime should not be mixed with the canon on profiles in the first place especially when the anime itself goes off into noncanon.
 
I have forgotten where exactly as I no longer have access to the novels on my computer but it is mentioned on the baccano wiki, last I saw.
 
My point was that the site draws from both sources, not that both sources are canon.

Although, I've always found it odd that we take from both sources for Baccano. We do the same thing for Durarara as well for some reason, which is unusual, seeing as other LN verses (see: To Aru) are more strict about that sort of thing.

Of course like I said, there's been little support for Narita on here before now, so it might just be lack of people paying attention. At one point the profiles had Claire scaled to Ronny based on WoG statements, which is something I know we aren't supposed to do. (bear in mind Ronny wasn't Tier 5 yet, at the time)
 
(Sheds tear over the grave of 7-C Claire Stanfield)

So, according to a discussion thread elsewhere, Ladd and Graham's initial meeting in the novel isn't antagonistic at all, meaning there is no wrench-tanking on Ladd's part.
 
If we're going to stop using the anime altogether, then Ladd and Graham's profiles need to be revised, because both have links to anime feats on their pages. (In Graham's case, he even has a link to him catching one of Ladd's bullets, which comes from where they fight each other)

Durarara is going to need a fix also. (although I never read those books, so I'd be absolutely no help on that front)
 
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