Wilhelm Ehrenburg VS Frankenstein

[Monarch_Laciel]

Vampire vs Not-actually-a-Vampire

Lots of spikes, life drain, soul ****, etc, look at those similarities, let's go

Dark Spear Frankenstein, 7-A Wolfgang.

 

[DMUA]

I mean

Spear vs being covered with spikes shows a clear ranged advantage

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Even without the spear, Frank can do this



Also other stuff like summoning his spikes directly within his enemies or from around them at all angles.

 

[Archaron]

Wilhelm with his briah activated will suck all of Frank, and also getting stronger, destructive, agile and fast as the fight happens. It would be good to set a spot for the fight, depending on whether wilhelm can suck the life of the place or anything like plants, trees, live creatures maybe, varies greatly.

And I think they both use danmaku, so it's kind of hard to decide...

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Fight takes place in Central Park New York

And Frank's spear can do the exact same thing, just saying.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Place holder, gonna give more imput later.

 

[Archaron]

Frank as well as Wilhelm use something physically to absorb it, but the wilhelm in the briah absorbs conceptually and passively, so I believe that it is obvious to consider not the level of absorption but the speed that each absorbs and reaches of it.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Wilhelm doesn't absorb conceptually, and the life drain part of Frank's spear is passive.

His aura (which is passive) also reopens wounds that have already healed and erodes matter.

 

[Archaron]

If briah is a minor version of an aziluth, then it is technically conceptual absorption, but not in a way to absorb concepts.

Welp, but what is the range of the aura of the spear?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

As for the speed and range of them

I'm pretty sure Wilhelm outranges Frank's passive aura and spear lifedrain with his Briah (can cover a school vs unclear from webtoon panels), but Frankenstein's other abilities outrange the Briah significantly

The speed of the passive drain is probably about equal. Wilhelm's Briah didn't absorb an entire school of normal people and was just kinda making Ren tired, while Frankenstein's was only shown absorbing the life out of plants and bushes (though that's probably just because everyone else nearby at the time resists it)

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

And no, Briah does not mess with concepts. Atziluth yes, briah no. Excluding specific exceptions like Machina's fists.

 

[Archaron]

Welp, if the range is higher then it is obvious who will strengthen more quickly, but as Frank's AP initially is bigger, I think he has more chances initially, but over time wilhelm wins as his reach is higher and literally absorb everything that makes up life for something.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Strengthen more quickly sure, but who says Frank is inside the Briah? He outranges significantly with everything except the aura/lifedrain.

Edit: Also you seem to be ignoring something on Frankenstein's profile in regards to Wilhelm's absorption.

Edit 2: Also, Frank's aura comes from his power, not from Frank himself, so his energy spikes and stuff have the same "reopen healed wounds" thing. So technically Wilhelm only outranges his lifedrain, and that's only with the Briah

 

[Archaron]

And no, Briah does not mess with concepts. Atziluth yes, briah no. Excluding specific exceptions like Machina's fists.

Like I said, if it's a smaller version of aziluth it undeniably works conceptually, but it does not have such an effect, as you said the fists of machina a different case.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

No, it's not a "smaller version of atziluth". Atziluth has Taikyoku. Briah is a rip off miniture. It does not have the same conceptual properties.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Cough Resistance to Absorption (can resist the Dark Spear attempting to consume his soul, life and body) and Soul Manipulation (can resist the Dark Spear trying to consume his soul) cough

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Oi oi,Wlhelm vs Wiz still not over yet.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I'm pretty sure 90% of your threads are not over yet, but you still bump them...

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I know,but seeing this thread get more attraction than mine make feels jealous :v

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Kek

 

[Schnee_One]

Frankenstein has much better ranged and Danmaku, is much more skilled and intelligent, has a much better mindset and is pretty much equal to Wilhelm in any other category

No reason he shouldn't take this, Voting Frank

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

reinhard throws his spear

Frank FRA.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Well okay,looks like Frank take this,my fave vampire burned to death by Frank FRA.

Also Monarch,continue debating in Chris vs Ikaros.

 

[Phoenix821]

Frankenstein FRA.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I feel I should point out that Frank's soul absorption does require him to impale his opponent with the Dark Spear (not just his basic energy blasts and spikes), or toss it to them and let them hold it, and that is really his only way around the regen (otherwise it's just slowed, not outright stopped).

Neither of which are improbable, but it's not like he'll soul hax and mess up Regenerationn with his every attack,.

 

[Schnee_One]

I am aware

Still better then spikes though, as DMUA pointed out

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I just realized I misunderstood DMUA

I thought he was saying "covered with spikes" was the better range, because I thought he meant "everything is covered with spikes". Not "wilhelm is covered with spikes and that's a shorter range than a spear".

Because Wolfgang can throw those spikes, just saying

 

[DMUA]

The dude with the German name throws his spear for reasons above.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

This sadened me,Wolfgang lose to DS and Kaguya,now Wilhelm lose to Frank,this sad that make me want to play "despacito".......

Fricking heck i do this meme REEEEE!!!

 

[Archaron]

No, it's not a "smaller version of atziluth". Atziluth has Taikyoku. Briah is a rip off miniture. It does not have the same conceptual properties.

So the quote from rusalka is invalid or out of context? I do not believe in this, I sincerely prefer to say that it works yes in a conceptual way but it's like I said, briah works the same way but it does not have the same effect nor the connections like taikyoku.

Welp, I did not ignore Frank's profile, resistance does not imply immunity, and he also always had more chances from the start with the larger AP.

 

[Wokistan]

Frankenstien fra.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Low-Godly takes care of the passive aura, Schreiber have soul manip resistance and Wilhelm was sucking him anyway.

His danmaku is arguably better considering he can TP all around Frank in his briah and attack with tens of thousands of stakes. His soul manip resistance is pretty good, seeing he could go toe to toe with true briah Wolffy.

Also what Monarch said is right, his briah does not have conceptual properties.

In the end I say Guillermo wins just because the longer the fight goes the stroger he becomes while his enemy is weakened. I'm aware of Frank resistance but I belive Wilhelm can take enough out of him to win. (Also having to entities succ-ing you is pretty bad, don't ask, just belive me).

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

(Also having to entities succ-ing you is pretty bad, don't ask, just belive me).

I assume what you mean there is that Frank has to deal with the Dark Spear absorbing him as well as Wolfgang

But if the Dark Spear eats him, he just advances to his next key, in which he is even stronger.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I was half joking with that one but that could be a problem. What would happend if Guillermo eat him before the spear does?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Most likely he dies.

Then again, Frank is very much like Wilhelm, compatible one might say, and managed to pull himself back out of being eaten by the spear, so there's a chance he might just pull a Shirou.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Low-Godly takes care of the passive aura, Schreiber have soul manip resistance and Wilhelm was sucking him anyway.

I mean, he'll heal from his wounds sure, but that doesn't mean it isn't going to be a pain when all his past wounds just keep opening straight back up.

And Schreiber resists soul damage with his armour, but he doesn't resist Absorption

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

And Schreiber resists soul damage with his armour, but he doesn't resist Absorption

Touche, but I still belive he will be able to pull him down, especially when the Spear is actively trying to absorb him at the same time that Wilhelm does.

 

[ZackMoon1234]

Frankenstein for the reasons above

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Alright, lemme count the votes.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Frankenstein: 7 (GargoyleOne, Dargo, Velox, Pheonix, DMUA, Wokistan, Zackmoon, Archaron)

Wilhelm: 2 (Toni)

Grace begins