Why Was BB Upgraded to 2-A

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Quite the thread.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Quite the thread.

This is what happens when you try to downgrade something without evidence after it's been accepted t b h

 

[JooCipher]

so 2-A is staying huh?

BB vs Thanos incoming

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I disagree with it staying. So far I haven't seen any sufficiently solid evidence.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

I disagree with it staying. So far I haven't seen any sufficiently solid evidence.

And yet you haven't provided anything beyond being "pretty sure".

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Can you please not try to be antagonistic now? There's still people with heavy doubts over this upgrade who are still arguing in this thread, and it would be wrong to just try and silence them.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

The fact that they were put into practice and pages were modified, especially on a CRT for a popular verse like this, shows that it was fairly universally accepted.

 

[Dienomite22]

@Matthew Schroeder

He wasn't talking about them nor trying to silence them.He was talking just to you.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The fact that they were put into practice and pages were modified, especially on a CRT for a popular verse like this, shows that it was fairly universally accepted.

If it was this very thread wouldn't exist, please. Let us not devolve solely into a numbers or authority fallacy here, as it often happens.

For instance, SnowFlame is raising very valid points that have yet to be properly addressed, and which debunk the 2-A claim entirely. Shall we just void his right to speak entirely and move past him like a steamroll truck? Surely not, I hope.

After all, the intent of threads such as these is to find accuracy. One starts with the evidence and bases the assumptions around it, eventually reaching a conclusion. One does not start with the conclusion and chooses the evidence and makes the assumptions that best tie with it, of course. To do so would to show blatant favouritism.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Can you please not try to be antagonistic now? There's still people with heavy doubts over this upgrade who are still arguing in this thread, and it would be wrong to just try and silence them.

I was talking to you specifically. You, the OP, who hasn't contributed.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

This thread ostensibly exists to question it, yes, but there was already a thread for that and you've spent the entire thread complaining about the wiki as a whole.

Literally everything he's brought up was discussed on the first thread for the 2-A upgrade and dealt with. The whole "the Moon Cell can't hold infinite universes" thing was a one-off quote when compared to the several that support the opposite.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Except none of the quotes for Moon Cell are talking about physical universes, but rather merely simulated / calculated possibilities. The point still stands and I have yet to see solid evidence of the contrary. Simply reiterating the questioned claims isn't to respond to the counterargument, it is merely to return to base one in an endless loop.

And again, you don't have to invalidate the whole thread. It is often best to start new threads rather than to try and bring attention to a thread with hundreds of posts which only counts with the presence of fans of the verse. Not everyone is willing to chime in at that point, and outside perspectives are invaluable to stop the problem of echo chambers, which does regrettably plague the wiki in its current state.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Here's your counter: the plot of Extella and the FGO event wouldn't make any sense if the Moon Cell's stuff wasn't real and physical

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I am going to address SnowFlame556 argurments. I been debunking his claims, but i am currently too busy right now to respond to his most recent ones.

Now, i'd also like to say that no matter what. there will always be a group of people that disagrees. For example, Outside of the wiki there is people that believe Goku is planet level despite his higher end feats. There is people on this wiki that believe that Goku (Xeno) is higher than 2-B.

point is. there will always be a group of people whose minds can't be changed despite their being sufficient evidence. This thread is the same imo.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Not necessarily, simulated realities can function quite similarly to real realities without actually being real.

 

[Udlmaster]

Here's your counter: the plot of Extella and the FGO event wouldn't make any sense if the Moon Cell's stuff wasn't real and physical

Implying the plot has to make sense in fiction.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

@Matthew

The fact that you can die in the Moon Cell is also a thing, just as an fyi.

@Udl

Not what i was saying at all and you know it.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Who cares. You don't make big updates like that without informing staff and without getting diverging opinions, specially for a topic as controversial in a thread hailed by someone who's infamously biased towards their waifu.

Excuse me

I haven't participated in BB threads in a very long time and even when I did the "waifu" bit was more a joke to me than anything.

I looked through the information and arguments presented to me on that thread, I watched the videos and I read through the scans, and I came to the conclusion that yes, there were infinite actual universes with their own space-time within the mooncell. BB's own rating did not come into it for me.

Besides my waifu is Medusa as many many many people can attest to

 

[Udlmaster]

@Udl

Not what i was saying at all and you know it.

I was making a joke, this is my issue with text, there's no inflection.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Not necessarily, simulated realities can function quite similarly to real realities without actually being real.

guess digimon ain't 10D since it's just virtual data ovo

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

It's kinda hard to discern sarcasm online when it's just in plain text y'know

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Your last post is a fallacious non-argument. You can't try to justify and end to all discussions simply by shrugging off outside commentary as "inevitable". This is a matter of a very new, extremely high, and very controversial upgrade to a popular verse.

We often require the makings of detailed blogs for such matters. To explain the power and mechanics of a character / ability in-depth to avoid problems such as the current. It's why my Elder Scrolls revisions took so long to make, not only did I make multiple blogs that detailed virtually everything that I could, but the Revision Thread itself was also colossal and went on through multiple editions. And the first thread was highlighted specifically to garner outside attention, as opposed to performing revisions entirely around pre-existing fans of the series.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Monarch

Not talking about you I was talking about SwagPack

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Not necessarily, simulated realities can function quite similarly to real realities without actually being real.

Yknow what, for the sake of argument, let's just say you're right and that they're simulated, since you love using that as a buzzword.

If they're simulated to the point where people can interact with them realistically, and even die from them, and they're treated as proper universes, then does it really ******* matter if they're simulated or not?

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

False equivalence. The TES revisions took so long, not just because the verse was complicated and need in-depth explaination to make sense, but also because it was ******* massive and spread out over several mediums. I will admit that UpgradeMan's comment isn't an argument, though.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

@Monarch
Not talking about you I was talking about SwagPack

Ah

Well my apologies for the misunderstanding in that case. But I still looked through the evidence presented as well as the comments of everyone who was disagreeing, and my conclusion was that the Mooncell was 2-A. I don't think that should count for nothing.

I don't agree with everyone who was scaled to the Moon Cell , but I believe that there is nothing wrong with the moon cell itself being 2-A.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

It wasn't meant to be an argument but something for people to think about it.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

False equivalence. The TES revisions took so long, not just because the verse was complicated and need in-depth explaination to make sense, but also because it was ******* massive and spread out over several mediums. I will admit that UpgradeMan's comment isn't an argument, though.

Excuse my french, but Nasuverse suddenly isn't a ******* massive franchise spread out over several mediums? The analogy seems to be skewed here.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Upgrade still makes a good point. People will always try to downgrade whatever verse despite blatant evidence to the contrary. That's why we have community debates and democracy instead of just letting any one person handle things, MATT.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yknow what, for the sake of argument, let's just say you're right and that they're simulated, since you love using that as a buzzword.

If they're simulated to the point where people can interact with them realistically, and even die from them, and they're treated as proper universes, then does it really ******* matter if they're simulated or not?

It does because they're not real constructs of Space and Time.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Yknow what, for the sake of argument, let's just say you're right and that they're simulated, since you love using that as a buzzword.

If they're simulated to the point where people can interact with them realistically, and even die from them, and they're treated as proper universes, then does it really ******* matter if they're simulated or not?

It does because they're not real constructs of Space and Time.

Even though they act as constructs of space and time and have the properties of space and time. Do you think people are just walking around a hologram in a building-sized ******' moon cube?

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Excuse my french, but Nasuverse suddenly isn't a ******* massive franchise spread out over several mediums? The analogy seems to be skewed here.

I don't remember Nasuverse, specifically the stuff related to the Moon Cell, having bits and pieces of lore randomly spread out across the internet and named in ways that basically no one not already in the know would find it, much less having entire, literal libraries to read through for lore in games that already have lore to be scanned for.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I don't agree with everyone who was scaled to the Moon Cell , but I believe that there is nothing wrong with the moon cell itself being 2-A.

It does have scaling to BB and a few people i do know for sure scale to her. Now as for anyone else especially those in Grand Order.. i cannot defend those whom scale from Goetia. That is why on the previous thread. I recommended, and encouraged that he uses his own feats.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The problem is... Even if, per the argument, Low 2-C or 2-A or whatever is consistent to BB, it evidently isn't consistent to a number of other characters that just had 2-A halfhazardly slapped onto their profiles.

Goetia for crying out loud, the discrepancy between his actual shown power and what's been claimed via scaling is ludicrous.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Not necessarily, simulated realities can function quite similarly to real realities without actually being real.

The ******* team of Chaldea rayshifted straight into it the digital space where they almost died multiple times. Seems pretty real to me. I'm sure the fact that the servants were digital didn't cross the mind of the real people when they were trying to kill them

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

The problem is... Even if, per the argument, Low 2-C or 2-A or whatever is consistent to BB, it evidently isn't consistent to a number of other characters that just had 2-A halfhazardly slapped onto their profiles.
Goetia for crying out loud, the discrepancy between his actual shown power and what's been claimed via scaling is ludicrous.

Naruto never blew up a planet but he scales to planet level people.

Luffy never busted a mountain but he scales to mountain level people.

Pretty much none of the Final Fantasy protags have performed any feats comparable to the people they scale from.

Saying "direct feats only" is ludicrous.

 

[Paul_Frank]

The problem is... Even if, per the argument, Low 2-C or 2-A or whatever is consistent to BB, it evidently isn't consistent to a number of other characters that just had 2-A halfhazardly slapped onto their profiles.

Goetia for crying out loud, the discrepancy between his actual shown power and what's been claimed via scaling is ludicrous.

How exactly is it not consistent?

Goetia scales to Kiara who scales to CCC Kiara that's pretty clear scaling

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

The Goetia argument is the one that bothers me the most. I dont understand how someone who at best is High 6-A via hax only and suddenly become 2-A even in AP. If Goetia was able to bust the multi verse then humanity would have been ****** very long ago and AAS wouldn't even be needed.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

people keep using Goetia as an example but seem to forget what AAS does. It destroys earth across all of time

all of it. Every instant if taken literally

meaning that it can be anywhere from High 6-A to High 3-A. So "shown power and what's been claimed" doesn't work as an argument, not even counting the fact that having higher-d AP doesn't mean that you can naturally destroy something at multiple points in time.

 

[Paul_Frank]

The Goetia argument is the one that bothers me the most. I dont understand how someone who at best is High 6-A via hax only and suddenly become 2-A even in AP. If Goetia was able to bust the multi verse then humanity would have been ****** very long ago and AAS wouldn't even be needed.

Goetia doesn't want to kill off humanity just to kill them.

He specifically wants to use AAS to turn them into energy to rewind time to the beginning

If he wanted to just wipe humnaity even grand caster could have done that by just spamming demon gods so it's pretty obvious that he doesn't want to just murder everyone for no rewson.