Why planet level soul king?

[Ujmikolp3]

I'm not really understanding why Soul King Yhwach is powerscaled to planet level. He's either 3-A/2-C(Powerscaling from Soul King), or 5-C(Actual feat). I'm not arguing for universal Yhwach or anything, but after thinking about it, it really doesn't make much sense for the collapse of the dimeions to be a 5-B event. We've clearly seen celestial bodies in the spirit realm(When the sun rises in chapter 565), and even if you can find evidence that the celestial bodies are not real, there's also the muken that is placed below the first division barracks that will also be destroyed along with the collapse of the dimensions.

The Muken has been stated to be infinite, and in this context it appears to be exposition, not hyperbole.

Furthermore, I never understood why people assumed that the living world/living realm refers only to the planet. In the actual manga scans,

we have multiple scans,referring to the disruption in the balance of souls, as an universal event (one more to seal the deal)

(I take no credit for the images, all are taken from a thread made by user Captivated from Animevice.com)

Either one, there's at least some evidence arguing for the collapse of the dimeions being a universal+ event, while there's almost none for planet-sized realms.

To iterate again, I'm not arguing for universal Yhwach, I'm arguing that the collapse of the dimensions is an universal event. Yhwach's tier should either be 5-C possibly up to 2-C, or 5-C and only 5-C. You should either treat the destruction of the dimensions as a feat, or you don't. There definitely could be things that I've missed in my post so feel free to correct me. But please keep things factual and polite, don't dismiss all the evidence simply because it's bleach, I'm more than willing to read your opinions/reasonings since the whole reason I made this post was to have a discussion on this topic.

 

[KamiYasha]

Among the Discussion Rules:

• Please note that a franchise which does not yet have a legitimate Planet level feat will NOT be upgraded to Tier 2 or above under any circumstances.

 

[Ujmikolp3]

Among the Discussion Rules:

• Please note that a franchise which does not yet have a legitimate Planet level feat will NOT be upgraded to Tier 2 or above under any circumstances.

What about Truth from FMA? A verse that has no planet-level characters? It was upgraded to 3-A(not 2-C). That's why I put 2-C/3-A in the second sentence.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

^ Agreed (with KamiYasha). No Bleach character has an actual feat that maintains this notion and having one Celestial body (which comparatively speaking, isn't very big) is a far cry from an actual Universe. Truth was upgraded before the rule was applied.

 

[Ujmikolp3]

^ Agreed (with KamiYasha). No Bleach character has an actual feat that maintains this notion and having one Celestial body (which comparatively speaking, isn't very big) is a far cry from an actual Universe. Truth was upgraded before the rule was applied.

That's not was I was getting at in my entire post. I even clarified it in my last paragraph. I'm not saying that Yhwach is Universal tier right now, I'm saying that the collapse of the dimensions is an universal-tiered event. There's absolutely no evidence that the celestial body is smaller than an actual celestial body(In fact, there are several verses with celestial bodies that has clear evidence that their celestial bodies do not match ours getting star-evel scaling(MLP)). I would like all my other points including the infinite muken as well as several statements from characters at the beginning of the series also addressed.

I'm saying that a 5-B tiered Soul King and Yhwach is simply not true given the evidence. Either put it Unknown, or remove the potentially 5-B from their profiles if you don't want to scale them any higher.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Well, let us wait for the progression of the series. If Universal events actually start happening in the end, then upgrades are possible. If it stays with just characters talking about it, but no feats to back it up, I don't think it should.

Truth is a clearly different case. It IS the whole of the universe, and that is made very clear.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

I never said you wanted to upgrade him to Universe level? I never said that the celestial body was smaller than a real life one? (Our Sun is not that big of a star). I don't follow Bleach so I have no way of addressing any infinite Muken. I do agree with you're assessment however. We should likely remove the rating.

 

[Kamonman]

I also don't understand why Soul King and Yhwach are tier 5-B.

Soul King puts the dimensions balanced.And the dimensions in Bleach are "Soul Society,Muken,Living World,Hueco Mundo,Hell,Garganta,Dangai,Caja Negació that Grimmjow used on Ulquiorra ,a dimension one of the Bleach's movie's(if i don't remember wrong it was Memories Of Nobody) and Quincy Shadow dimension.

And now Yhwach makes that mission.Why are we tiering them as 5-B?

 

[Ujmikolp3]

Since the series will likely end with Ichigo winning(universe not collapsing), we will likely never see any universal scale events happen. If you doubt that the character statements are factual, or that the disturbance of the balance of souls cannot be translated into actual destructive power(which I personally believe it cannot), it would be best to put the character tier as Unknown, or simply disregard it all-together. Putting the their tier at potentially 5-B just doesn't sit right with me because it seemed to came out of nowhere with little evidence to back it up.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

This should also apply here, Greemy is sending Kenpachi to space or he's creating a whole Universe:





There's also the problem that the Dangai, holds multiple dimensions of different sizes including the world of the living, which were also affectd by this.

 

[KamiYasha]

In the Bleach verse there only three "dimensions": The Real Word, Soul Society and Hueco Mundo.

I know there are more like "Hell" and stuff, BUT, after the death of the Soul King it was stated several times that the three worlds will cease to exist.

Maybe Kubo just retconned the Universal stuff to just three "worlds"

 

[Ujmikolp3]

In the Bleach verse there only three "dimensions": The Real Word, Soul Society and Hueco Mundo.
I know there are more like "Hell" and stuff, BUT, after the death of the Soul King it was stated several times that the three worlds will cease to exist.

Maybe Kubo just retconned the Universal stuff to just three "worlds"

I think both Yhwach and Askin stated that those three realms will be destroyed. However, it's faulty to assume that those are the only realms that are affected by the death of the Soul King simply because none of the others were significant enough to be mentionned. This is very similar to those arguing for city-level Gremmy because he stated that "All of Seireitei" will disappear when his meteor hits.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Not at all really. If they're not said to be affected, then we shouldn't assume the others are affected without significant proof.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

1-Hueco Mundo

2-Soul Society

3-World of the Living

4-Soul King's dimension

5-Dangai

6- x ? the numbers of Valley of screams (pocket dimensions, of unknown size)

7-Beast Realm (mention briefly by Komamura)

8-Muken (prison were Aizen is)

9-Mugen (Where kenpachi and unohona fought)

10-Hell

And other's which i i don't remember right now...but at least the Dangai and the Soul King dimension's were also shaking during the SK death.

 

[Kawaru_Shotomata]

8-Muken (prison were Aizen is)

9-Mugen (Where kenpachi and unohona fought

without anywhere called mugen , kenpachi fought unohana in Muken

 

[Ujmikolp3]

Not at all really. If they're not said to be affected, then we shouldn't assume the others are affected without significant proof.

I know that you are unfamiliar with Bleach, so I'll paste this from the Bleach wiki

The Soul King's sole purpose is to regulate the flow of souls into and out of Soul Society and keep the flow stable. Without the Soul King, the balance is lost and everything that is linked to Soul Society or made in it, as well as the DangaiHueco Mundo and the Human World will fall apart.

I will concede to the fact that I do not have proof as of now that Hell/Animal Realm/Valley of screams are affected by the Soul King, but the Dangai as well as all other dimensions(Royal Realm, Infinite Muken) connected to SS are also affected. So it's defintely not just the SS, HM, and the Real World affected by the death of the Soul King

Sorry about the coloring, I'm still new to this site so I'm unfamiliar with the changing of font colors as of yet.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

8-Muken (prison were Aizen is)

9-Mugen (Where kenpachi and unohona fought

without anywhere called mugen , kenpachi fought unohana in Muken

Muken is the whole prison.

Mugen is the bottom floor of the prison were the dimension is located.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qGs-CDwtjJA/UPbMejwRmwI/AAAAAAAADOk/cP_En0wqS4k/s16000/012.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TCnQDCT0_K8/UPbMjcG_jsI/AAAAAAAADPE/h1FSmQ065ME/s16000/014.png

Muken, Infinity= Mugen

 

[Ujmikolp3]

8-Muken (prison were Aizen is)

9-Mugen (Where kenpachi and unohona fought

without anywhere called mugen , kenpachi fought unohana in Muken

Muken is the whole prison.
Mugen is the bottom floor of the prison were the dimension is located.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qGs-CDwtjJA/UPbMejwRmwI/AAAAAAAADOk/cP_En0wqS4k/s16000/012.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TCnQDCT0_K8/UPbMjcG_jsI/AAAAAAAADPE/h1FSmQ065ME/s16000/014.png

Muken, Infinity= Mugen

But the prison itself and the bottom floor counts as one entity, doesn't it? If it was just a prison without an infinite sized dimension below it, it wouldn't really count as a dimension by itself.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

It's fine and okay.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

8-Muken (prison were Aizen is)

9-Mugen (Where kenpachi and unohona fought

without anywhere called mugen , kenpachi fought unohana in Muken

Muken is the whole prison.
Mugen is the bottom floor of the prison were the dimension is located.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qGs-CDwtjJA/UPbMejwRmwI/AAAAAAAADOk/cP_En0wqS4k/s16000/012.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TCnQDCT0_K8/UPbMjcG_jsI/AAAAAAAADPE/h1FSmQ065ME/s16000/014.png

Muken, Infinity= Mugen

But the prison itself and the bottom floor counts as one entity, doesn't it? If it was just a prison without an infinite sized dimension below it, it wouldn't really count as a dimension by itself.

No. Is seperated from the outside world once they enter throught this gates:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gx7l2hr8QXU/UPbMhNCsmyI/AAAAAAAADO0/d0IHqa2A19s/s16000/013.png

They are two different dimensions, to get to the Mugen dimensiosn you must first enter through the Muken prison dimension. The Mugen is located at the bottom of the Muken dimension seperated from the outside world.

We got confirmation by Aizen and Kyoraku that the shaking could be felt in the Muken dimension as well but there's no proof that the Mugen was affected by the Soul King death.

 

[KamiYasha]

Complex Multiverse level Soul King Confirmed.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

http://i4.**********.com/bleach/420/bleach-2399507.jpg

When were you in the impression that Bleach WAS NOT at least 5D?

 

[KamiYasha]

No, just no.

I can't wait to Aizen sees this thread.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

http://i4.**********.com/bleach/420/bleach-2399507.jpg
When were you in the impression that Bleach WAS NOT at least 5D?

High 2-A Mugetsu ichigo confirmed ┬»\_Òâä_/┬»

Seriously this might not gonna end well...

 

[KamiYasha]

Seriously this might not gonna end well...

Is not going to end well.

 

[LordAizenSama]

........

What. is this?

 

[HokageMangaVox]

http://www.mangafreak.eu/read/bleach/421/5

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/9/48-421.0/compressed/cbleach_421_sleepyfans.02-03.jpg

******** ^

Kubo's color page of Mungetsu. GG.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

Oh dear Mugetsu ichigo beyond the traditional space time confirmed ┬»\_Òâä_/┬»

 

[Ujmikolp3]

Complex Multiverse level Soul King Confirmed.

I have been trying my best to provide arguments with references to original sources and wikias. If you disagree with what I'm showing, I would appreciate it if you could point out the problem so we can discuss it. I was never arguing for a multiversal/multidimensional Soul King/Yhwach in the first place, so there's no need for this kind of strawman argument here. There's also no need for any hostility, gifs, or one-liners that adds nothing to the the discussion. If I wanted that, I would've posted on narutoforums instead.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

what have i walked into......

 

[Primaris_Brian]

what have i walked into......

Hey it could be worse ┬»\_Òâä_/┬»

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/225186

 

[Ujmikolp3]

8-Muken (prison were Aizen is)

9-Mugen (Where kenpachi and unohona fought

without anywhere called mugen , kenpachi fought unohana in Muken

Muken is the whole prison.
Mugen is the bottom floor of the prison were the dimension is located.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qGs-CDwtjJA/UPbMejwRmwI/AAAAAAAADOk/cP_En0wqS4k/s16000/012.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TCnQDCT0_K8/UPbMjcG_jsI/AAAAAAAADPE/h1FSmQ065ME/s16000/014.png

Muken, Infinity= Mugen

But the prison itself and the bottom floor counts as one entity, doesn't it? If it was just a prison without an infinite sized dimension below it, it wouldn't really count as a dimension by itself.

No. Is seperated from the outside world once they enter throught this gates:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gx7l2hr8QXU/UPbMhNCsmyI/AAAAAAAADO0/d0IHqa2A19s/s16000/013.png

They are two different dimensions, to get to the Mugen dimensiosn you must first enter through the Muken prison dimension. The Mugen is located at the bottom of the Muken dimension seperated from the outside world.

We got confirmation by Aizen and Kyoraku that the shaking could be felt in the Muken dimension as well but there's no proof that the Mugen was affected by the Soul King death.

But the place Aizen was imprisoned in was the same place where Kenpachi and Unohana fought.

"Sōsuke Aize was sentenced to be imprisoned for 20,000 years in Muke (þäíÚûô, Voided Space), the 8th and final level of the underground prison underneath the First DiVision barracks.[21][22"

"After Shunsui gives them permission to use the Central Great Underground Prison's lowest level,Muke, as a stage for their training"

The wiki stated that the Muken is the 8th and final level of the prison, where Kenpachi trained and Aizen was imprisonned.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

what have i walked into......

Hey it could be worse ┬»\_Òâä_/┬»

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/225186

Now i remember that thread........welp this ain't as bad as it but still.......

 

[HokageMangaVox]

8-Muken (prison were Aizen is)

9-Mugen (Where kenpachi and unohona fought

without anywhere called mugen , kenpachi fought unohana in Muken

Muken is the whole prison.
Mugen is the bottom floor of the prison were the dimension is located.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qGs-CDwtjJA/UPbMejwRmwI/AAAAAAAADOk/cP_En0wqS4k/s16000/012.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TCnQDCT0_K8/UPbMjcG_jsI/AAAAAAAADPE/h1FSmQ065ME/s16000/014.png

Muken, Infinity= Mugen

But the prison itself and the bottom floor counts as one entity, doesn't it? If it was just a prison without an infinite sized dimension below it, it wouldn't really count as a dimension by itself.

No. Is seperated from the outside world once they enter throught this gates:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gx7l2hr8QXU/UPbMhNCsmyI/AAAAAAAADO0/d0IHqa2A19s/s16000/013.png

They are two different dimensions, to get to the Mugen dimensiosn you must first enter through the Muken prison dimension. The Mugen is located at the bottom of the Muken dimension seperated from the outside world.

We got confirmation by Aizen and Kyoraku that the shaking could be felt in the Muken dimension as well but there's no proof that the Mugen was affected by the Soul King death.

But the place Aizen was imprisoned in was the same place where Kenpachi and Unohana fought.
"Sōsuke Aize was sentenced to be imprisoned for 20,000 years in Muke (þäíÚûô, Voided Space), the 8th and final level of the underground prison underneath the First DiVision barracks.[21][22"

"After Shunsui gives them permission to use the Central Great Underground Prison's lowest level,Muke, as a stage for their training"

The wiki stated that the Muken is the 8th and final level of the prison, where Kenpachi trained and Aizen was imprisonned.

Can you provided scans for that!? The wiki pages can be edited by anyone. And if this is truth, we have evidence that the death of the soul king affected that place as well. By statments from Kyoraku and Aizen which claimed that the crumbling could be felt in there as well.

 

[KamiYasha]

I have been trying my best to provide arguments with references to original sources and wikias. If you disagree with what I'm showing, I would appreciate it if you could point out the problem so we can discuss it. I was never arguing for a multiversal/multidimensional Soul King/Yhwach in the first place, so there's no need for this kind of strawman argument here. There's also no need for any hostility, gifs, or one-liners that adds nothing to the the discussion. If I wanted that, I would've posted on narutoforums instead.

1 - The image wasn't about your references, it was about the listed "dimensions" that someone else wrote. The only reasonable response is laugh about the 10 dimensions...

2 - The whole Universal statement was barely mentioned at the begining of the series. Kubo more likely just retconned the Universal to Worlds (Although just one of them has a confirmed planet size).

3 - If you put this on NF it will probably just be ignored just like this one . (Not talking nothing bad about NF, they have enough experience to deal to things like that.)

4 - As i said at the beginning: There is a RULE about this thread.

and i quote:

• Preferably avoid creating VS threads with Yhwach from Bleach, as the character's statistics are very uncertain and unproven. Additionally, there have been statements in recent chapters misusing the term omnipotence and omniscience (quite common in fiction). Please note that a franchise which does not yet have a legitimate Planet level feat will NOT be upgraded to Tier 2 or above under any circumstances.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

If you put this on NF it will probably just be ignored just like this one

LoL Narutards looking a for away to powerscale Kaguya to Yhwach now.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

If you put this on NF it will probably just be ignored just like this one

LoL Narutards think they can match Kaguya to Yhwach now.
Hey Yhwach is Omnipotent ┬»\_Òâä_/┬»

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/225186

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/225869

 

[HokageMangaVox]

If you put this on NF it will probably just be ignored just like this one

LoL Narutards think they can match Kaguya to Yhwach now.

Hey Yhwach is Omnipotent ┬»\_Òâä_/┬»https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/225186
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/225869

Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. Who knows ┬»\_Òâä_/┬». The Author's logic is shitty. Omnipotent with inifinite power, needs to sleep. xD Well, if he couldn't that would also contradict it, wouldn't it.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

If you put this on NF it will probably just be ignored just like this one

LoL Narutards think they can match Kaguya to Yhwach now.

Hey Yhwach is Omnipotent ┬»\_Òâä_/┬»https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/225186https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/225869

Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. Who knows ┬»\_Òâä_/┬». The Author's logic is shitty. Omnipotent with inifinite power, needs to sleep. xD Well, if he couldn't that would also contradict it, wouldn't it.

Hey what is logic? ┬»\_Òâä_/┬»

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Yeah...closing the thread, this has gotten out of control...since yesterday. Also Kami is right, there are rules against this.