Why isn't SCP-3812 High 1-A?

[Rikimarox2]

I'm sure I'm missing something here, which is why I made this thread. This is only for his "eventually higher" key. From the tiering page, it says in order to reach High 1-A, you must transcend "infinitely-layered Outerversal hierarchy".

And iirc, the narrative hierarchy has an infinite amount of 1-A structures, according to 3812's profile. And in his profile it states that he will eventually transcend the entirety of the hierarchy.

In order for him to be 1-A+, he just needs to be infinite levels above baseline, but here, he already transcended the hierarchy completely. He doesn't stand at the top of the hierarchy, so he isn't just infinite levels above baseline, he has completely transcended it.

Perhaps I'm miss-reading or interpreting something here, but why is he 1-A+, instead of High 1-A?

 

[Planck69]

He's basically the Low 1-A equivalent for 1-A+ I believe. As in, he exists beyond a given hierarchy but isn't beyond every possible extension of that hierarchy.

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

Well, RIP 3812

 

[WeeklyBattles]

He's basically the Low 1-A equivalent for 1-A+ I believe. As in, he exists beyond a given hierarchy but isn't beyond every possible extension of that hierarchy.

He is though

 

[Planck69]

All his profile implies is that he keeps growing beyond an infinite hierarchy endlessly though. That's not really High 1-A.

You're free to CRT that though.

 

[Rikimarox2]

So, he needs to transcend an uncountable amount of 1A layers in order to get high 1A? Is that what it means by being beyond any extension of it?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

All his profile implies is that he keeps growing beyond an infinite hierarchy endlessly though. That's not really High 1-A.

You're free to CRT that though.

3812 will eventually transcend the hierarchy in its entirety

 

[Planck69]

Again, that's....not High 1-A.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Again, that's....not High 1-A.

Transcending a system of infinitely ascending infinitely transcendent 1-A structures isnt 1-A?

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

It needs a lot more evidence to get to high 1-A

 

[Planck69]

Transcending a system of infinitely ascending infinitely transcendent 1-A structures isnt 1-A?

No? Regardless of how large the layers is (infinite*infinite I think?), what needs to be proven is that at a certain point, no matter how much you increase the hierarchy, he'll always be beyond it at that given level. 3812 just grows endlessly, which isn't enough to prove this.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

No? Regardless of how large the layers is (infinite*infinite I think?), what needs to be proven is that at a certain point, no matter how much you increase the hierarchy, he'll always be beyond it at that given level. 3812 just grows endlessly, which isn't enough to prove this.

That's literally 3812's entire thing though, once he transcends the hierarchy in its entirety he sees every layer as a work of fiction

 

[Planck69]

Seeing every lower layer as a work of fiction is just another layer. He has to see the hierarchy itself as fiction.

If he does this then I wish you luck on that CRT, since it's currently just seems enough for 1-A+.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Seeing every lower layer as a work of fiction is just another layer. He has to see the hierarchy itself as fiction.

If he does this then I wish you luck on that CRT, since it's currently just seems enough for 1-A+.

Yes, he sees the hierarchy as fiction

 

[Planck69]

Then good luck with the CRT for that.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Again, that's....not High 1-A.

According to the Tiering page, it is. Perhaps it's something with the wording of the Tiering page.

Although I still need to know what you mean by any extension of the hierarchy. He transcended an already infinite hierarchy. How does it matter if a layer was added to an already infinite hierarchy?

 

[Planck69]

According to the Tiering page, it is. Perhaps it's something with the wording of the Tiering page.

Although I still need to know what you mean by any extension of the hierarchy. He transcended an already infinite hierarchy. How does it matter if a layer was added to an already infinite hierarchy?

Think of 1-A+ as High 1-B. If he transcended it and no further context was given, it would be Low 1-A right?

If he transcended it and it was made clear that he transcended High 1-B space-time in a conceptual level, such that no adding of dimensions can match up to him, he'd be 1-A right?

It's more-or-less this.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Ah, If that's how it works, then I understand now. Thanks for this, this thread can be closed then.

 

[ThePirateKing777]

Well the SCP Multiverse was stated to contain uncountably infinite higher dimensions which fits the requirements for Low 1-A as stated in the tiering system.

Above the narrative of the SCP Multiverse is “The Alpha Layer”, which is were SCP Andrew Swann proposal exists(The readers and the writers). As it says on its profile, The Alpha Layer transcends the entire hierarchy of higher dimensions composed out of uncountably infinite higher dimensions. On its profile it qualifies for 1-A.

Now the Author of 3812 is Ben which on a Reddit post has been revealed by the author of the profile Djkaktus to be in fact his first name. This shit show that SCP 3812 has indeed superseded the reality of The Alpha Layer since in the beginning and the end of the profile 3812 mentioned to be above him. I think at this point 3812 would would qualify for 1-A+ since he now has transcended The Alpha Layer.

Now we know that they are an infinite number of Higher Narrative Layers that would go beyond The SCP Multiverse’s Layer and The Alpha Layer and that 3812 is constantly transcending into increasingly higher narratives, perceiving each layer as nothing but nonexistent fiction in a higher layer as stated by Djkaktus that 3812 becomes “more and more real” as he goes up the stack also saying that “every creature, entity or concept are become so insignificant that they May may have never existed at all”. Because of that it’s still just 1-A+ but just a bit more impressive each time is it transcends a narrative layer.

Finally one of 3812's alternate personalities at the end of his profile has stated that the entity will eventually rise above the entirety of creation and the infinite hierarchy of narratives that comprise it. Because of how transcending a narrative layer qualifies for 1-A and transcending more of them would be 1-A+, now 3812 will have transcended an infinite amount of them. On the tieing page it’s stated to qualify for High 1-A the character must be “completely transcendent over infinitely-layered Outerversal hierarchies and any extensions thereof, as well as the framework in which such entities are defined in the first place.” So I believe this would him at High 1-A sense he now transcends the infinite narrative slack and now views it all as nonexistent fiction. (don’t really know how 1-A+ works)

The alternate personality of 3812 has also stated that after it has done this it will continue to supersede itself endlessly even after that. Continuously transcending itself and viewing itself as nonexistent fiction. This what still still make him High 1-A but just a little more impressive each time he transcends himself. This would probably make them similar to Hajun with his tumor before his downgrade to 1-A.

So I think it can go like this:


After Transcending the Alpha Layer: 1-A

Transcending Higher Layers after the Alpha Layers: 1-A+

After Transcending The Narrative Stack: High 1-A

 

[Rikimarox2]

Why would transcending the higher layers above Alpha layer grant 1A+? Simply transcending a 1A structure isn't enough for 1A+

 

[ThePirateKing777]

Yeah I just read that Characters who stand an infinite number of steps above "Baseline" Outerversal realms and structures are to have a + modifier in their Attack Potency section (Outerverse level+) 3812 is only doing one as you said. So never mind then. My bad.

I don’t really see him qualifying for High 1-A since he doesn’t exactly fit the requirements and the SCP-verse doesn’t have High 1-A structures.

 

[manu_zarri]

I still don't understand why Alpha Layer isn't above 3812. I don't know for you, but im pretty sure it dosen't exist in real life. since SCP are mythos and fiction

 

[Darksmash]

The thing is, to be High 1-A they need a transcendence of the form "Haha I am beyond all forms of categories and definitions" with respect to 1-A beings, whether the structures are infinitely layered or more has nothing to do with it, since you can always construct an infinite heirarchy by axiom of choice/replacement (whatever it was called)
So if he transcended infinite narratives, it would be Nw(aleph omega)

If he transcended an infinite heirarchy above infinite narratives then it would be like Nw^2 etc
There would be no end.

Now take this with a grain of salt, however, I think a case for High 1-A can be made, since 3812's article talks about an "Architect of the architecture"

But what of that entity? Would it not share the same limitations within its reality as we do within ours? It may exist within a higher tier than us, but surely it must follow the same rules we do. But who sets those rules? An entity higher than that? One that supersedes not only us, but the entity that supersedes us, and the one after that as well? Where did the echelon originate, then? Who or what was the original architect of the architecture?

Now, given the nature of this quote is speculative, you can argue it's useless, however if we take it as a fact then there would exist someone who created the fundamental concept governing the entire Architecture(Narrative stack), and transcending him would probably be High 1-A.

Also saying Alpha Layer is above 3812 because "He doesn't exist in real life" pretty much ignores the purpose of 3812's story.

 

[Rikimarox2]

That actually might be evidence to make him H1A. Though, I believe this isn't enough sadly.

 

[Darksmash]

Yea, overall it's pretty vague and unelaborated
Hence 1-A+ is good enough as a concrete tier for 3812
Of course, that's ignoring the possibility that the narratives themselves might be High 1-A

 

[Rikimarox2]

 

[manu_zarri]

I remember a wog that has been refuted of high 1-A 3812. Maybe I will send later

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

I remember a wog that has been refuted of high 1-A 3812. Maybe I will send later

Don't use Djkaktus' WoG quotes, they're really sus

 

[manu_zarri]

Don't use Djkaktus' WoG quotes, they're really sus

it just says that he exist in a metaphysical level beyond whatever are other 1-A+ SCP, but ye, i just want know why 3812 > 001, like, we have literally a page that explain how characther can't influence real life, but 3812 is the only expection?

 

[Planck69]

You know a verse can have an analog to the Real World right? DC, as well as several metafictional works have this. So him being above "real life", if true, isn't an issue.

 

[manu_zarri]

You know a verse can have an analog to the Real World right? DC, as well as several metafictional works have this. So him being above "real life", if true, isn't an issue.

But Alpha Layer in SCP is literally our world, there isn't anything beyond it if not higher being from the REAL world.

wog treat it like this aswell

 

[Planck69]

But Alpha Layer in SCP is literally our world, there isn't anything beyond it if not higher being from the REAL world.

wog treat it like this aswell

The moment this Alpha Layer was mentioned in the setting, it became part of it. No matter how much something in fiction claims to be the Real World, it will always be an analog to it.

 

[manu_zarri]

The moment this Alpha Layer was mentioned in the setting, it became part of it. No matter how much something in fiction claims to be the Real World, it will always be an analog to it.

it's still the real world. it's not part of fiction, the alpha layer is real world and not part of scp narratives. like where SCP 3812 stated to trascend it?

 

[Pepsiman25th]

if someone made a new accepted article of 3812 on the scp wiki, he can become boundless

 

[Planck69]

I really, really, really hate that aspect of SCP.

 

[Pepsiman25th]

I really, really, really hate that aspect of SCP.

same
the only scp (in my opinion) who deserves tier 0 is swann but then that would also make 4010 tier 0 since its just swann 2.0

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

if someone made a new accepted article of 3812 on the scp wiki, he can become boundless

Isn't there a rule against that?

 

[Rikimarox2]

Yes there is. The article must not be made by a battle board user. Not sure how we would know they were made by battle board users, but eh.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

I really, really, really hate that aspect of SCP.

Yeah, SCPs like 3812 are just there for the sake of being OP and don't particularly have any interesting traits compared to other meta SCPs

 

[Pepsiman25th]

Yeah, SCPs like 3812 are just there for the sake of being OP and don't particularly have any interesting traits compared to other meta SCPs

anyone here think 2747 is the only scp who rightfully deserves 1-A+?