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Why is the primal monitor questionably omnipotent?
- Thread starter Huesito88
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Well, it considered the DC multiverse something unholy, chaotic, and disgusting compared to its own immeasurably vast purity. That is not the same as being threatened.
Regardless, I suppose that I may have to change its tier to "Unknown". What do the rest of the staff members think?
Regardless, I suppose that I may have to change its tier to "Unknown". What do the rest of the staff members think?
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I believe you mean DC Multiverse.
And the fact that Grant Morrison himself, the guy who created the Primal Monitor, said someone drew on him.
This is what makes me suggest "The Writer" as the Supreme Being of DC.
We're not talking about the real life Grant Morrison, no.
I'm taking about the character who embodies The Writer, any writer, but is still a fictional character. Grant Morrison never created a multiverse in real life, as far as I know.
And the fact that Grant Morrison himself, the guy who created the Primal Monitor, said someone drew on him.
This is what makes me suggest "The Writer" as the Supreme Being of DC.
We're not talking about the real life Grant Morrison, no.
I'm taking about the character who embodies The Writer, any writer, but is still a fictional character. Grant Morrison never created a multiverse in real life, as far as I know.
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OBD also considers The Writer to be the supreme being of DC, now.
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Well, The PM is the supreme character, but within any fiction, a writer can technically just decide to let a tier 0 lose to bacteria, if he or she feels like it. See Ajimu Najimi and Iihiko Shishime for a metafictional version of that.
However, this does not mean that we can break our entire system, and start to list profiles for all of the authors in existence as tier 0's. I would appreciate if you would permanently drop this matter, as it would destroy the entire point of the wiki if we applied it.
However, this does not mean that we can break our entire system, and start to list profiles for all of the authors in existence as tier 0's. I would appreciate if you would permanently drop this matter, as it would destroy the entire point of the wiki if we applied it.
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Let's recap a bit. If we are to believe what Grant is saying, then "someone" has drawn the DC multiverse on the Primal Monitor. It wasn't the Primal Monitor's body/being itself in an act of subsconsiousness look-alike. The reaction of the Primal Monitor was of "shock", of surprise. Hence, the Primal Monitor couldn't have made it consciously either, since he didn't fathom something like the DC multiverse could exist. In the end, we see that someone forced something onto the Primal Monitor, against his will. If the Primal Monitor was truly omnipotent, I am pretty sure he would have known of that "parasite" of sorts.
Yeah, the removal of the Tier 0 is in order.
Yeah, the removal of the Tier 0 is in order.
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I'm not insisting that every author character is a Tier 0, that is stupid. Only that the DC "The Writer" is. Because by Grant's own words and logic, he is the supreme being of DC and drew on the Primal Monitor.
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It should be At least 1-A, I think.
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Actually, thinking slightly more of Grant Morrison's stories, I'm not sure his words in that interview can be trusted completely.
I mean, with al do respect, he is a really excentric man and his stories not only have no concept of 4th wall, with characters realizing that they themselves are fictional, but continuity and retcons seem to be non-existent. In his Batman R.I.P and Batman Inc. series, he treats everything, even Pre-Crisis Batman as canonical.
And relating to The Primal Monitor's "Shock" or "Surprise"... I'm not sure it can even be called that. The thing is literally a formless, boundless, infinite stretch of whiteness. It seems completely mindless, rather.
I mean, with al do respect, he is a really excentric man and his stories not only have no concept of 4th wall, with characters realizing that they themselves are fictional, but continuity and retcons seem to be non-existent. In his Batman R.I.P and Batman Inc. series, he treats everything, even Pre-Crisis Batman as canonical.
And relating to The Primal Monitor's "Shock" or "Surprise"... I'm not sure it can even be called that. The thing is literally a formless, boundless, infinite stretch of whiteness. It seems completely mindless, rather.
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@Matthew As I have mentioned, this is a sensitive matter that would open the borders for rating every author character in existence as tier 0, as it would demolish the walls between reality and fiction, which we have a strict policy against. I would appreciate if you immediately permanently drop this.
Anyway, I have now changed the PM to "Unknown. At least 1-A".
Anyway, I have now changed the PM to "Unknown. At least 1-A".
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Fine.
I'd just like to hear other Staff Members thoughts on this.
Edit: Anyway, Grant Morrison's page should still be renamed to "The Writer" and the 10-B bit should be removed. I accept he shouldn't be Tier 0, but he has feats. 1-A or Impossible to define.
I'd just like to hear other Staff Members thoughts on this.
Edit: Anyway, Grant Morrison's page should still be renamed to "The Writer" and the 10-B bit should be removed. I accept he shouldn't be Tier 0, but he has feats. 1-A or Impossible to define.
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Looks like High 1-A is ready to solo Marvel and DC verse, just saying..
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The thing with DC's "The Writer" character is that they treat it as a serious thing. It's not Stan Lee showing up and winking at the camera, or Lord of Nightmares beating her author with a shovel.
Guidebooks of the time even listed him as an actual character.
Guidebooks of the time even listed him as an actual character.
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Well yes I have seen many fans claim that Primal Monitor is DC comic page which makes no sense.
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Anyway, here are my suggestions for both pages:
The Primal Monitor's page is renamed to Monitor-Mind The Over Void.
I think there should also be a gallery to give feats and explanation pictures and what not, and maybe a summary.
Grant Morrison is renamed The Writer, and the 10-B section is removed. He is either 1-A or Impossible to define. Omniscient and Omnipresent, as that is how he was depicted in the issue.
I can do both changes just fine, if it'd be too demanding for you, Ant.
The Primal Monitor's page is renamed to Monitor-Mind The Over Void.
I think there should also be a gallery to give feats and explanation pictures and what not, and maybe a summary.
Grant Morrison is renamed The Writer, and the 10-B section is removed. He is either 1-A or Impossible to define. Omniscient and Omnipresent, as that is how he was depicted in the issue.
I can do both changes just fine, if it'd be too demanding for you, Ant.
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As I keep repeating, it would be directly damaging to the wiki's entire system to in any way erase the border between reality and fiction. This is based on direct instructions from DarkLK. I would rather just delete the page, if this continues to be a problem. Also, when John Ostrander wrote the character, and killed him off, he legitimately was just tier 10-B.
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I also repeat myself, I do not want to erase the border between reality and fiction. I am not suggesting to make Tier 0 pages for Tori-Bot or MCU Stan Lee. I know it doesn't work like that.
What I do think is that within Grant Morrison's DC Comics Cosmology, the concept of "The Writer" does apply, and can make sense. Both Final Crisis and Multiversity are incredibly metafictional, and The Primal Monitor already blurs the line between reality and fiction. It's supposed to be "the page", but as a fictional entity within the DC Verse.
Anyway. I agree with you on The Writer not being Tier 0. I just want him to be a Tier 1 or Impossible to Define.
Edit: Okay, let's drop the matter. Let's leave Grant Morrison / The Writer as an Impossible to Define character.
What I do think is that within Grant Morrison's DC Comics Cosmology, the concept of "The Writer" does apply, and can make sense. Both Final Crisis and Multiversity are incredibly metafictional, and The Primal Monitor already blurs the line between reality and fiction. It's supposed to be "the page", but as a fictional entity within the DC Verse.
Anyway. I agree with you on The Writer not being Tier 0. I just want him to be a Tier 1 or Impossible to Define.
Edit: Okay, let's drop the matter. Let's leave Grant Morrison / The Writer as an Impossible to Define character.
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Eh, this whole thing has been going for far too long.
I think this is enough, I'm tired.
I can improve the profile later, requesting another Admin to temporarely unlock it.
I think this is enough, I'm tired.
I can improve the profile later, requesting another Admin to temporarely unlock it.
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Well, the problem is thst if we do treat the writer seriously in this case, it will open the borders for lots of fans of other series to demand that we rate the author avatars of their favourite series as tier 0 or at least 1-A as well.
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Ah, didn't get your reply of being tired as well.
Should we just lock this thread?
Should we just lock this thread?
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How does unknown, possibly at least 1-A for the Primal Monitor sound? And I mean isn't Azathoth mindless but technically also omniscient since it dreamed said omniscient being(s) yet is tier 0 (I am aware that omniscience isn't one of it's abilities)?Antvasima said:
EDIT: The change has already been made, just checked again. Thanks, at least 1-A sounds accurate, possibly high 1-A... dunno if we can say tier 0 anymore.
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The only thing that makes it impossible from being a Tier 0 is Grant Morrison's own explanations saying that someone else (I.E, the real life writer, which makes no sense from a reality-fiction standpoint) drew the DC Multiverse on him.
Him being "Unaware and shocked" with the DC Multiverse isn't that problematic, as it is a sort of mindless being.
But yeah, it is At least 1-A for being Absolutely boundless and transcedental, and the canvas for all possible creation.
Him being "Unaware and shocked" with the DC Multiverse isn't that problematic, as it is a sort of mindless being.
But yeah, it is At least 1-A for being Absolutely boundless and transcedental, and the canvas for all possible creation.
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