Why is scaling Buddhism in fiction not allowed on the wiki?

[Ar1216789]

I've always wondered this question, my character has literally transcended Nirvana and has a realm almost identical to the Formless Realms. (eg.. a realm free of limitation and is the highest point of existence, enlightened, etc.) If the wiki permitted Buddhism scaling my character would be 1-A, I still don't why they don't allow it, especially my character whos based off Guanyin.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

We don't scale religions. This is a wiki typically for scaling fictional characters, so putting a religious profile on here is akin to calling someone's religion fake. Also, if you scale a religious character 'incorrectly' then you risk backlash from that religious group, who might be angry their religion is tiered lower than another. There are a bunch of other issues I could mention, but the general idea is that it's more trouble than it's worth.

 

[Ar1216789]

We don't scale religions. This is a wiki typically for scaling fictional characters, so putting a religious profile on here is akin to calling someone's religion fake. Also, if you scale a religious character 'incorrectly' then you risk backlash from that religious group, who might be angry their religion is tiered lower than another. There are a bunch of other issues I could mention, but the general idea is that it's more trouble than it's worth.

I'm aware it is contraverisal.. but considering my character is based off Buddhism (to an extent where she has transcended Nirvana and has a realm similar to that of the Formless Realms) Is it possible to use context of the Formless Realms?

 

[Berga14]

I'm aware it is contraverisal.. but considering my character is based off Buddhism (to an extent where she has transcended Nirvana and has a realm similar to that of the Formless Realms) Is it possible to use context of the Formless Realms?

As long as it isn't the religion itself then its okay, there are many religion-based (or that have elements fron religions in their verse) character here.

 

[Ar1216789]

As long as it isn't the religion itself then its okay, there are many religion-based (or that have elements fron religions in their verse) character here.

If my character has a Realm which is almost identical to the Formless Realms can I use context like this in the video.

 

[Berga14]

If my character has a Realm which is almost identical to the Formless Realms can I use context like this in the video.

I'm not knowledgable in religions so idk about that video but you should use your verse proof to back up your scaling. It isn't enought to say "it is based on buddhism sk it scale the same as buddhism". You can use some similarities to explain things better but that's it.

 

[Ar1216789]

I'm not knowledgable in religions so idk about that video but you should use your verse proof to back up your scaling. It isn't enought to say "it is based on buddhism sk it scale the same as buddhism". You can use some similarities to explain things better but that's it.

Its more than just similar. She transcended Nirvana and has a Realm almost identical to all the characteristics of the Formless Realms

 

[Berga14]

Its more than just similar. She transcended Nirvana and has a Realm almost identical to all the characteristics of the Formless Realms

I think you can do it as long as it doesn't directly involve real buddhism

 

[Ar1216789]

I think you can do it as long as it doesn't directly involve real buddhism

Her whole character is setting everyone free of burden and desires, casting away from wordly concerns, and apathy. She has acheived Enlightenment and created a world free of limitation and "trancended all" and have to set aside everything to acheive enlightenment. Her realm is also the highest point of existence, all in correspondance with the Formless Realms, its a timeless and spaceless void of nothingness. The point of the Formless Realms is to prove she transcended what can be perceived and non-perceived.

 

[Napoleondevious]

We don't scale religions. This is a wiki typically for scaling fictional characters, so putting a religious profile on here is akin to calling someone's religion fake. Also, if you scale a religious character 'incorrectly' then you risk backlash from that religious group, who might be angry their religion is tiered lower than another. There are a bunch of other issues I could mention, but the general idea is that it's more trouble than it's worth.

whats so bad about saying someone religion is fake ?

 

[Ar1216789]

whats so bad about saying someone religion is fake ?

If I called Christianity fake, or Islam fake, you'd be offended. Its also controversial to have such profiles, imagine if VSBW were to have a Jesus profile, its very disrespectful.

 

[Berga14]

whats so bad about saying someone religion is fake ?

Because some people will get mad and ruin the wiki.

Anyway

Her whole character is setting everyone free of burden and desires, casting away from wordly concerns, and apathy. She has acheived Enlightenment and created a world free of limitation and "trancended all" and have to set aside everything to acheive enlightenment. Her realm is also the highest point of existence, all in correspondance with the Formless Realms, its a timeless and spaceless void of nothingness. The point of the Formless Realms is to prove she transcended what can be perceived and non-perceived.

I remember you that "jurney to the west" is accepted here. And there are many other verses with obvious heavy references to buddhism (one of them got tier 0 not long ago if i'm not wrong). So as long as you make clear that it isn't the religion it should be okay.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

As long as the scaling isn't heavily reliant on the outside context it's fine. For example, we don't scale JTTW's Nirvana to how it's described in the Mahayana, but we do use the Mahayana as context to how certain things should be interpreted.

 

[Ar1216789]

As long as the scaling isn't heavily reliant on the outside context it's fine. For example, we don't scale JTTW's Nirvana to how it's described in the Mahayana, but we do use the Mahayana as context to how certain things should be interpreted.

Would this video be fine to use to get my verse to possible Low 1-A - 1-A?

 

[Bernkastelll]

whats so bad about saying someone religion is fake ?

These things usually leads into people losing their heads (literally) IRL

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

The main reason why power scaling is not done based on religious beliefs is the logic that there is no such thing as a character being at the same power level as the religious figure they represent, which I agree with. For example, let me give an example from one of my favorite series, Bakugan. The character Ashura represents both Ashura and Brahman (I think that's how his name is written). Now, I can't come out and say that Ashura (Bakugan)'s tier should be 1-A, High 1-A, etc. A character that resembles them doesn't mean that he is at their level. Imagine someone saying Sengoku High 1-A/Boundless just because Sengoku ate the fruit of transforming into Buddha. I don't think scaling should be done from the words Nirvana. If Nirvana in that series contains a context that can increase the character's tier, maybe, but writing it as nirvana in that case would be problematic. If he has another name, it would be more accurate to write it that way.

Are we going to accept Bakugan Tier 0 with power scaling from each Nirvana emote? That would be ridiculous.

In the Demon Slayer manga, the character Gyutaro says, "Give me back my sister, I will slaughter all the Gods and Buddhas for her if necessary." Now, like the troll scaling pages, are we going to say that Buddha should be High 1-A/Boundless? The line here is both disturbing and there is no such thing as Buddha in the character's universe being the same power as in Buddhism.

Just because the character Ainz in the Ruruoni Kenshin series said "I need a higher power than God and Buddha to achieve my goal", are we going to consider Ainz and characters like Kenshin, Shisiho and Sanoske who are scaled to him as High 1-A/Boundlesss?

In short, friends, I find it objectionable to scale power based on religious beliefs. Both because it would make people uncomfortable (I'm not Buddhist, but I think I would be uncomfortable if I saw the panel where Gyutaro said that on this wiki) and because why would the power of a religious figure or god be at the same or similar level as a fictional character with the same name?

 

[SheevShezarrine]

All the reasons above, plus oftentimes people kinda totally suck ass at scaling using context from religious texts, and will misinterpret the hell out of it consciously or no to artificially inflate the power of the verse referencing it, which frankly is totally reductive and disrespectful. A horrid but perfect example that comes to mind is the godforsaken Tier 1 Devil May Cry fiasco

 

[Ar1216789]

The main reason why power scaling is not done based on religious beliefs is the logic that there is no such thing as a character being at the same power level as the religious figure they represent, which I agree with. For example, let me give an example from one of my favorite series, Bakugan. The character Ashura represents both Ashura and Brahman (I think that's how his name is written). Now, I can't come out and say that Ashura (Bakugan)'s tier should be 1-A, High 1-A, etc. A character that resembles them doesn't mean that he is at their level. Imagine someone saying Sengoku High 1-A/Boundless just because Sengoku ate the fruit of transforming into Buddha. I don't think scaling should be done from the words Nirvana. If Nirvana in that series contains a context that can increase the character's tier, maybe, but writing it as nirvana in that case would be problematic. If he has another name, it would be more accurate to write it that way.

Are we going to accept Bakugan Tier 0 with power scaling from each Nirvana emote? That would be ridiculous.

In the Demon Slayer manga, the character Gyutaro says, "Give me back my sister, I will slaughter all the Gods and Buddhas for her if necessary." Now, like the troll scaling pages, are we going to say that Buddha should be High 1-A/Boundless? The line here is both disturbing and there is no such thing as Buddha in the character's universe being the same power as in Buddhism.

Just because the character Ainz in the Ruruoni Kenshin series said "I need a higher power than God and Buddha to achieve my goal", are we going to consider Ainz and characters like Kenshin, Shisiho and Sanoske who are scaled to him as High 1-A/Boundlesss?

In short, friends, I find it objectionable to scale power based on religious beliefs. Both because it would make people uncomfortable (I'm not Buddhist, but I think I would be uncomfortable if I saw the panel where Gyutaro said that on this wiki) and because why would the power of a religious figure or god be at the same or similar level as a fictional character with the same name?

I agree with this, as long as its not heavily reliant on context like ActuallySpaceMan sent. Thing is, my character resembles almost everything to that of the Formless Realms and Buddhism (Transcending all, Enlightenment, Unbound by Nirvana, and created a realm free of limitation, its also the roof of the world, which is in correspondence with the Formless Realms being the highest of existence, her world is also a world of nothingness where you are unburdened with desires) The video is here if you would like to see it.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

I agree with this, as long as its not heavily reliant on context like ActuallySpaceMan sent. Thing is, my character resembles almost everything to that of the Formless Realms and Buddhism (Transcending all, Enlightenment, Unbound by Nirvana, and created a realm free of limitation, its also the roof of the world, which is in correspondence with the Formless Realms being the highest of existence) The video is here if you would like to see it.

I didn't watch the video but let me say this if the scaling you want to do exceeds Nirvana, it's not like the nirvana in Buddhism, but as long as you prove that the place it exceeds really provides an upgrade, there's no problem. For example, let me give an example from Bakugan, Doom Dimension (Japanese name Desu Jigen) is the afterlife of Bakugan. 6 Ancient Warriors would destroy Hell for someone who can destroy this place and Hell said it's an infinitely large universe in the X religion, then it wouldn't be right to call Doom Dimension 2-A and those scaled to it 2-A. But if it were like this: Doom Dimension is an alternative universe to Vestroia, which consists of 7 universes. If a character can destroy/affect the human universe, Doom Dimension and Vestroia (7 uni) with a single hit, it would be at least 2-C out of 15 uni. Oh, and I also have to prove that these are all separate space times.

 

[Ar1216789]

I didn't watch the video but let me say this if the scaling you want to do exceeds Nirvana, it's not like the nirvana in Buddhism, but as long as you prove that the place it exceeds really provides an upgrade, there's no problem. For example, let me give an example from Bakugan, Doom Dimension (Japanese name Desu Jigen) is the afterlife of Bakugan. 6 Ancient Warriors would destroy Hell for someone who can destroy this place and Hell said it's an infinitely large universe in the X religion, then it wouldn't be right to call Doom Dimension 2-A and those scaled to it 2-A. But if it were like this: Doom Dimension is an alternative universe to Vestroia, which consists of 7 universes. If a character can destroy/affect the human universe, Doom Dimension and Vestroia (7 uni) with a single hit, it would be at least 2-C out of 15 uni. Oh, and I also have to prove that these are all separate space times.

Sorry for the late response. The cycle in question she transcended mirrors that of life death and rebirth, its the version of samsara in verse, however it shares the exact same qualities of Nirvana in the real world.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

I've always wondered this question, my character has literally transcended Nirvana and has a realm almost identical to the Formless Realms. (eg.. a realm free of limitation and is the highest point of existence, enlightened, etc.) If the wiki permitted Buddhism scaling my character would be 1-A, I still don't why they don't allow it, especially my character whos based off Guanyin.

"Almost Identical" =/= Identical

If it was the exact same as the Buddhist version of the Nirvana it would be 1-A by itself

And that's the problem, you can't scale to the Buddhist Nirvana due to having no proof of them being exactly the same

And by "Exactly" i mean literally identical to each other

 

[Ar1216789]

"Almost Identical" =/= Identical

If it was the exact same as the Buddhist version of the Nirvana it would be 1-A by itself

And that's the problem, you can't scale to the Buddhist Nirvana due to having no proof of them being exactly the same

And by "Exactly" i mean literally identical to each other

Check the scans. She set herself free from the cycle of life, death, and rebirth which exists in the verse, identical to nirvana. Enlightenment, Realm of Apathy, blah blah blah. Their 1 to 1.

She's been described to have "transcended all" and its described to be a world of fantasy where all meaning is lost. The Realm of Apathy is cut off from all reality, and you must understand the principles of the universe and suffering in order to reach it. She transcended time, matter, meaning, blah blah blah. She achieved enlightenment, cast away from worldly concerns. A land "unshackled by everything". The Realm is the highest point of existence similar to the Formless Realms.

Losing your countless beliefs and ideas, individualities, etc. As if they never existed. Enlightenment is eliminating everything that matters, which includes concepts most likely.


Its also a void of nothingness. Point of it was to prove that the Realm transcends all the can be perceived and non-perceived via the context of the Formless Realms. Everything else is explained in-game.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Check the scans. She set herself free from the cycle of life, death, and rebirth which exists in the verse, identical to nirvana. Enlightenment, Realm of Apathy, blah blah blah. Their 1 to 1.

She's been described to have "transcended all" and its described to be a world of fantasy where all meaning is lost. The Realm of Apathy is cut off from all reality, and you must understand the principles of the universe and suffering in order to reach it. She transcended time, matter, meaning, blah blah blah. She achieved enlightenment, cast away from worldly concerns. A land "unshackled by everything". The Realm is the highest point of existence similar to the Formless Realms.

Losing your countless beliefs and ideas, individualities, etc. As if they never existed. Enlightenment is eliminating everything that matters, which includes concepts most likely.


Its also a void of nothingness. Point of it was to prove that the Realm transcends all the can be perceived and non-perceived via the context of the Formless Realms. Everything else is explained in-game.

My point still stands:

If it was the exact same as the Buddhist version of the Nirvana it would be 1-A by itself

And that's the problem, you can't scale to the Buddhist Nirvana due to having no proof of them being exactly the same

 

[Ar1216789]

My point still stands:

As long as it isn't reliant on outside context that much, I'm allowed to use it (answers I've received from this thread),