Why doesn't the ETSB scale to Kaguya's normal stats?

[DTG499]

One of them said it was a creation feat and not a destruction feat and that the ETSB is a hax ability to begin with. It having a star within it is not a factor of its destructive capabilities.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

One of them said it was a creation feat and not a destruction feat and that the ETSB is a hax ability to begin with. It having a star within it is not a factor of its destructive capabilities.

Both creation and Destruction scale to AP last I checked. And it's a hax made using her raw chakra(power)

 

[Slacjow]

@DTG499

These kind of things happen,fiction doesn't care about your science,scaling and logic.

This is what I said,meaning that fiction doesn't give a crap about scaling and science,and inconsistent things happen all the time.

If we don't use science, scaling and logic these arguments would end up coming down to "My character would beat yours because I like him more"

Here you are telling me we can't stop using science.

Did I say we shouldn't use science?No,I didn't.I said that ficiton doesn't give a crap about our own personal view on it,if somehting inconsistent happens there,it happens.You can't do anything about it,deal with it.If Rock Lee obliterates Momoshiki with a punch,then Rock Lee would be rated higher than Momoshiki,and things like "Outler" should be disregarded.

My character would beat yours because I like him more"

Also,this is pretty much how Versu Board is working right now,someone votes for a character,and people come to vote him FRA.

This is offtopic so it doesn't matter anyways,idc about 4-B.

 

[DTG499]

Yes true, but in this case none of her other attacks, striking strength, lifting strength and durability was shown to have that same High 4-C level. It's in a very interesting spot on the wiki as outlier feat being accepted but only accepted for that specific attack.

 

[DTG499]

All you had to say was inconstancies happen. @slac

 

[Lop222]

Both creation and Destruction scale to AP last I checked. And it's a hax made using her raw chakra(power)

I thought creation>>destruction. since you need more energy to create than destroy

 

[Slacjow]

I don't agree with scaling special charged hax techniques to normal stats of the character.

But I don't understand the outlier argument.There are tonns of verses that jumped tiers without proper feats,just on some vauge statements.

 

[DTG499]

No it's pretty much the same @lop

 

[DTG499]

I don't agree with scaling special charged hax techniques to normal stats of the character.

But I don't understand the outlier argument.There are tonns of verses that jumped tiers without proper feats,just on some vauge statements.

The more popular versus usually get handled more thoroughly.

 

[DTG499]

It also depends on the context to. Kaguya made that star level attack but was trapped by an attack that was calculated to be moon level

 

[Lop222]

It also depends on the context to. If there are like Kaguya who made that star level attack but was trapped by an attack that was calculated to be moon level.

Honsestly that make sense but that was also a seal tech.

example Goku almost sealed Zamasu into a pot. lets say it worked it woulndt mean zamasu is pot level.

 

[DTG499]

Yes, but there are multiple types of seals aswell. The physical kind where you just overpower you opponent with a strong physical barrier , the ones that bypass conventional durability sealing via space manipulation, time manipulation, reality warping, soul manipulation ect and then there is the third party sealing which requires and object or totem to achieve the sealing. IE the mafuba.

The seal that was made by Naruto and Sasuke was not a hax seal it was a physical seal. If it was a hax seal they wouldn't have needed to make it as big as moon would they?

 

[Lop222]

The seal that was made by Naruto and Sasuke was not a hax seal it was a physical seal. If it was a hax seal they wouldn't have needed to make it as big as moon would they?

No it was more than that. the moon seal split all tailed beasts from kaguyas body, closed her Rinne- sharingan. reducing her powers.

 

[DTG499]

Any seal that targets the energy source directly is not a seal that bypasses durability. Chakra is the source of durability.

 

[Metalija]

Chibaku tensei is a sealing hax, just because its as big as the moon doesn't mean that it can't trap character that are higher than moon level. Sasuke almost traped fused Momo in CT that is smaller then a mountain. So its size does not represent its potency.

 

[DTG499]

Sealing isn't always hax. Sealing becomes hax when it's in conjunction with other hax abilities time, reality, soul, matter space hax. You would need it prove what type of sealing hax it is.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Sealing isn't always hax. Sealing becomes hax when it's in conjunction with other hax abilities time, reality, soul, matter space hax. You would need it prove what type of sealing hax it is.

It's not just a big moon. Hagoromo gave them this seal particularly to seal Kaguya, that was it's sole purpose. It's size is irrelevant. Otherwise just a normal CT would've sufficed

 

[DTG499]

We need to prove what type of hax is being used for the seal for this to go any further.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

No it was more than that. the moon seal split all tailed beasts from kaguyas body, closed her Rinne- sharingan. reducing her powers.

This would qualify as power null. And it makes sense because if it was a regular CT, she could've busted out of it like 8 tails Naruto or Momoshiki. But it's clearly a special CT provided by Hagoromo to seal his mom and her power.

 

[DTG499]

Eh,that's a very limited power null because it doesn't restrict natural energy. Besides power null would fall in the psychical attack category because again you are targeting the energy source.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Okay that's fair, but it doesn't change the fact that it's hax that prevents her from using her energy, thus preventing her from breaking the seal, thus making the size of the CT irrelevant. And that means..... yep you guessed it! She could still be a lot stronger than the CT itself and still get sealed by it.

And it's pretty consistent too if you think about it. If it purely a physical seal, then Kaguya should've broken out of it regardless because both times she got sealed it was done by weaker characters, whether it's Naruto and Sasuke or Hagoromo and Hamura. So the idea that it's purely physical doesn't even really make sense when scrutinized in any way.

 

[BlueRangerBilly]

I always thought the ETSB scaled higher than Kaguya base. It's basically like her version of spirit bomb where she absorbs the chakra from others to form it. Saying she scales to it would say others who have fought her also scale to it which would create a storm wave of revisions. We have multiple statements and Hagoromo creating moon feat but it still isn't enough to give us planet level. And I fear the way Boruto is with Kodachi I doubt we will get any planet level feats from Sasuke or Naruto who I doubt will even train after this Jigen thing due to focusing on Boruto as Plot. We will have to accept that Naruto god tiers will remain at 5-C, at least there was a massive speed upgrade.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

There won't be massive revisions or anything lol. Just the God tiers will be affected. As for the Spirit bomb example:

1) Goku usually Absorbs energy from relevant fighters or energy sources.

For example... stars and planets against Frieza, Gohan and everyone on earth vs Buu, the entire UNIVERSE against Omega Shenron, team 7 against Jiren... etc. So relevant comparable energy sources.

Kaguya absorbed energy from a bunch of fodder ninja who wouldn't even give KCM2 Naruto a meaningful amp. Let alone Jubi absorbed Kaguya.

2) The Spirit bomb isn't scaled a few tiers above Goku lmao.

 

[BlueRangerBilly]

Your what you said I concede

 

[LordTracer]

"Team 7 against Jiren"

Hehe, I don't think he was getting energy from Kakashi, Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura there.

 

[Metalija]

We don't need to scale Kaguyas normal attacks to ETSB, but she needs to be higher then Moon level because even if her normal attacks are 1000 times weaker than ETSB they would still be massively above Moon level. Even skinny 2nd form Juubi was compared to a small planet by sensory shinobi, so Kaguya only being moon level is dumb.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

"Team 7 against Jiren"

Hehe, I don't think he was getting energy from Kakashi, Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura there.

I meant team universe 7 lmao

 

[LordTracer]

Lol, I know.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Then again Kakashi with his big brain and Sakura with her healing power would probably be too much for Jiren anyway ... I mean FRIGGIN TEMARI IS UNIVERSE LEVEL

 

[CaptainSparkz]

We don't need to scale Kaguyas normal attacks to ETSB, but she needs to be higher then Moon level because even if her normal attacks are 1000 times weaker than ETSB they would still be massively above Moon level. Even skinny 2nd form Juubi was compared to a small planet by sensory shinobi, so Kaguya only being moon level is dumb.

So At Least Moon Level +, Likely Far Higher

 

[LordTracer]

Then again Kakashi with his big brain and Sakura with her healing power would probably be too much for Jiren anyway ... I mean FRIGGIN TEMARI IS UNIVERSE LEVEL

I mean, even Sakura was able to harm Kaguya and her dimensions are obviously universes, so it'd definitely be enough to take Jiren out.

 

[CaptainSparkz]

But Jiren shook infinite, along with UI Goku, Jiren is Omnipotent. XD

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Unless he goes into his El-Hermano form, at which point he becomes tier 0 so GG

 

[LordTracer]

Kakashi's omnipotent too though. The databooks say so.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

But Jiren shook infinite, along with UI Goku, Jiren is Omnipotent. XD

Sound logic and infallible arguments you got there mate.

 

[CaptainSparkz]

But so is Jiren

 

[LordTracer]

So it's omnipotent v. omnipotent + Sakura, Sasuke and Naruto. So Team 7 still wins.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

But Infinity+Trash would detract from infinity, thus Jiren stomps.

 

[CaptainSparkz]

But then he takes his shirts, get Enraged and becomes High omnipotent +

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Becomes tier -1