Why doesn't going into space grant Resistance to Extreme Cold anymore?

[SeijiSetto]

Space is (largely) a vacuum and you can't lose heat by conduction, sure.
But you can lose heat by radiation. Pretty fast, in fact, it's why bodies like the Moon can go from 100K to 390K depending on how much radiation they're receiving from the sun. The coldest temperature ever recorded by a space craft is in a particularly dark (i.e not receiving any radiation from the sun) hole in the moon.

My point is - if characters stay in space for an extended period of time, they should be granted resistance to it because of the fact that heat transfer via radiation would always be happening.

I make this Q&A because IIRC DDM and DT made a change at one point so that this is not the case.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Space is (largely) a vacuum and you can't lose heat by conduction, sure.
But you can lose heat by radiation. Pretty fast, in fact, it's why bodies like the Moon can go from 100K to 390K depending on how much radiation they're receiving from the sun. The coldest temperature ever recorded by a space craft is in a particularly dark (i.e not receiving any radiation from the sun) hole in the moon.

My point is - if characters stay in space for an extended period of time, they should be granted resistance to it because of the fact that heat transfer via radiation would always be happening.

I make this Q&A because IIRC DDM and DT made a change at one point so that this is not the case.

I also wonder why only radiation resistance and sustenance survive in space.

Like, I don't know much about this, but when someone is in space (without protective clothing) doesn't they implode or something? Don't more internal things happen in the person's body that kill them because of being in a "vacuum"?

How can radiation resistance and self-sustenance (which just comes from not needing to breathe) make someone resist these other things?

 

[SeijiSetto]

I also wonder why only radiation resistance and sustenance survive in space.

Like, I don't know much about this, but when someone is in space (without protective clothing) doesn't they implode or something? Don't more internal things happen in the person's body that kill them because of being in a "vacuum"?

There's a couple other effects.
The pressure there is far lower so all your bodily fluids boil and that gas inside of you makes you start to bloat and swell like an ugly balloon. So resistance to low pressure... I guess? Idunno.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

There's a couple other effects.
The pressure there is far lower so all your bodily fluids boil and that gas inside of you makes you start to bloat and swell like an ugly balloon. So resistance to low pressure... I guess? Idunno.

It is like I said.

Radiation resistance wouldn't help with that.

And self-support doesn't cover that, just the not needing to breathe thing.

 

[Testarossa002]

Idk if this addresses your concerns

About Absolute Zero

I found out recently that the temperature in outer space is above Absolute Zero temperatures Do characters who have space travel or can survive in space get resistance to Absolute Zero?

vsbattles.com

 

[SeijiSetto]

Idk if this addresses your concerns

About Absolute Zero

I found out recently that the temperature in outer space is above Absolute Zero temperatures Do characters who have space travel or can survive in space get resistance to Absolute Zero?

vsbattles.com

Not particularly. I just want it to be noted that, if characters are in space unprotected for an EXTENDED period of time (this is the important part) then they can get the resistance.

 

[azontr]

Not particularly. I just want it to be noted that, if characters are in space unprotected for an EXTENDED period of time (this is the important part) then they can get the resistance.

This is already how it is treated. The change that DT made was only to remove the resistance for those who explicitly do NOT spend an extended period of time in space without protection, not the other way around.

 

[Hypertornado099]

Space is (largely) a vacuum and you can't lose heat by conduction, sure.
But you can lose heat by radiation. Pretty fast, in fact, it's why bodies like the Moon can go from 100K to 390K depending on how much radiation they're receiving from the sun. The coldest temperature ever recorded by a space craft is in a particularly dark (i.e not receiving any radiation from the sun) hole in the moon.

This does not say how long it takes for the moon to change from 100K to 390K, so it can't be used as evidence that its pretty fast. We need more sources; for now here's this article from an astrophysicist that states it can take a dozen hours to freeze in space due to radiation

 

[SeijiSetto]

This is already how it is treated. The change that DT made was only to remove the resistance for those who explicitly do NOT spend an extended period of time in space without protection, not the other way around.

I see. I thought it was a blanket change that just said "nuh uh, space =/= resistance to cold"

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I agree that staying in the vacuum of space without literally freezing should grant resistance to ice manipulation

It should also grant resistance to cosmic radiation and self sustenance.

I have no idea what other abilities qualify for other space related effects.

 

[Therefir]

Here's this article from an astrophysicist that states it can take a dozen hours to freeze in space due to radiation

Doesn't this basically answer the OP's question?

Resisting the change in pressure without bloating up is probably just a durability feat (I don't think the characters themselves are experiencing any of those effects whatsoever).

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

DontTalkDT is the one who made the reason. But long story short, while lots of places in outerspace are AZ, it's only that due to not even having any oxygen or atmosphere in the 1st place. It's not quite on part with being placed in a freezer with high pressured electromagnetic waves being conducted to generate electromagnetic pulses that disperse thermal energy to to produce refrigerant followed by refrigerant eating thermal energy from its surroundings. Nor is it on par with swimming in liquid nitrogen which would logically eat your body's thermal energy at a fast rate. And places like Pluto are did extremely cold dwarf planets that generate extremely cold atmospheres, so that's also different. But being in outerspace far away from any other planet and not even touching any sort of gas or plasma would mean nothing is absorbing your body's thermal energy. As your body would be an isolated system in that regard.

 

[TheGatememer]

Slight correction, there are no places in outer space that we know of that are AZ, they are slightly above AZ temperatures.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

DontTalkDT is the one who made the reason. But long story short, while lots of places in outerspace are AZ, it's only that due to not even having any oxygen or atmosphere in the 1st place. It's not quite on part with being placed in a freezer with high pressured electromagnetic waves being conducted to generate electromagnetic pulses that disperse thermal energy to to produce refrigerant followed by refrigerant eating thermal energy from its surroundings. Nor is it on par with swimming in liquid nitrogen which would logically eat your body's thermal energy at a fast rate. And places like Pluto are did extremely cold dwarf planets that generate extremely cold atmospheres, so that's also different. But being in outerspace far away from any other planet and not even touching any sort of gas or plasma would mean nothing is absorbing your body's thermal energy. As your body would be an isolated system in that regard.

That makes sense then.

What about different sections of the atmosphere? I think the mesosphere is pretty cold and the exosphere is extremely hot. Would those grant resistances?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Slight correction, there are no places in outer space that we know of that are AZ, they are slightly above AZ temperatures.

No places with mass of any kind are AZ, but let's say you were in a void with 0 matter in it, that would technically be AZ simply because 0 matter. You aren't physically touching any Nigh-AZ gas when you're so distant from everything else. And never said gas/plasma that reaches AZ ever existed (Otherwise I'd be arguing the existence of an object with infinite fusion energy) just that the points stands that Pure Empty Space is only 0 thermal energy due to 0 matter period.

 

[SeijiSetto]

DontTalkDT is the one who made the reason. But long story short, while lots of places in outerspace are AZ, it's only that due to not even having any oxygen or atmosphere in the 1st place. It's not quite on part with being placed in a freezer with high pressured electromagnetic waves being conducted to generate electromagnetic pulses that disperse thermal energy to to produce refrigerant followed by refrigerant eating thermal energy from its surroundings. Nor is it on par with swimming in liquid nitrogen which would logically eat your body's thermal energy at a fast rate. And places like Pluto are did extremely cold dwarf planets that generate extremely cold atmospheres, so that's also different. But being in outerspace far away from any other planet and not even touching any sort of gas or plasma would mean nothing is absorbing your body's thermal energy. As your body would be an isolated system in that regard.

your body would still be able to radiate heat via, y'know, radiation, just not conduction or convection (requires physical contact)
EM radiation carried by photons
it would take some time (hence, see below) but you would still lose heat in outer space.

I just want it to be noted that, if characters are in space unprotected for an EXTENDED period of time (this is the important part) then they can get the resistance.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I know you still breath out heat, but it's not like the oxygen gets any colder; also, you'd still breathing in your own carbon dioxide. Also, the stress of having no clear oxygen would cause your calories to burn up if anything; potential energy becoming thermal energy and what not. So before you die, you're more likely heating up rather than getting colder. And the part where you body cools is more likely to happen after you're already dead and thus there really is no cold resistance to demonstrate. You suffocate in a matter of seconds before any sort of cooling process actually happens.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

The line between Fiction and science is something else

 

[SeijiSetto]

I know you still breath out heat, but it's not like the oxygen gets any colder; also, you'd still breathing in your own carbon dioxide. Also, the stress of having no clear oxygen would cause your calories to burn up if anything; potential energy becoming thermal energy and what not. So before you die, you're more likely heating up rather than getting colder. And the part where you body cools is more likely to happen after you're already dead and thus there really is no cold resistance to demonstrate. You suffocate in a matter of seconds before any sort of cooling process actually happens.

not once did i mention oxygen or breathing in ANY capacity
i said your body will rid itself of heat by way of radiating it away
radiation made of EM photons that don't require a medium to travel
this, however, takes time, so the resistance should only be granted for those who can be shown to spend an extended period of time (on the order of 10s of hours) in space

i'm not talking about a regular person at all i'm just genuinely confused as to how you responded to my post and thought "yeah they're DEFINITELY talking about breathing and/or burning calories from struggling, yessir"

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Resisting the change in pressure without bloating up is probably just a durability feat (I don't think the characters themselves are experiencing any of those effects whatsoever).

But what durability? And it would still be something internal.

DontTalkDT is the one who made the reason. But long story short, while lots of places in outerspace are AZ, it's only that due to not even having any oxygen or atmosphere in the 1st place. It's not quite on part with being placed in a freezer with high pressured electromagnetic waves being conducted to generate electromagnetic pulses that disperse thermal energy to to produce refrigerant followed by refrigerant eating thermal energy from its surroundings. Nor is it on par with swimming in liquid nitrogen which would logically eat your body's thermal energy at a fast rate. And places like Pluto are did extremely cold dwarf planets that generate extremely cold atmospheres, so that's also different. But being in outerspace far away from any other planet and not even touching any sort of gas or plasma would mean nothing is absorbing your body's thermal energy. As your body would be an isolated system in that regard.

DDM, can you help with this here?

There's a couple other effects.
The pressure there is far lower so all your bodily fluids boil and that gas inside of you makes you start to bloat and swell like an ugly balloon. So resistance to low pressure... I guess? Idunno.

 

[Therefir]

But what durability? And it would still be something internal.

Internal durability, your organs are so strong they don't get affected by the change in pressure or the effects that come with it, or your body has some kind internal pressure regulator that would allow you to fully ignore any changes in the environment's pressure.

Either way, I don't think it can be properly indexed because such ability doesn't exist on the wiki.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Internal durability, your organs are so strong they don't get affected by the change in pressure or the effects that come with it, or your body has some kind internal pressure regulator that would allow you to fully ignore any changes in the environment's pressure.

Either way, I don't think it can be properly indexed because such ability doesn't exist on the wiki.

Actually, it'd be Resistance to Durability Negation

You know, the kinda crap Luffy and Garou pull for screwing up organs

 

[Hypertornado099]

your body would still be able to radiate heat via, y'know, radiation, just not conduction or convection (requires physical contact)
EM radiation carried by photons
it would take some time (hence, see below) but you would still lose heat in outer space.

How long do you think "extended period of time" should be? We need a minimum

 

[Flashlight237]

No places with mass of any kind are AZ, but let's say you were in a void with 0 matter in it, that would technically be AZ simply because 0 matter. You aren't physically touching any Nigh-AZ gas when you're so distant from everything else. And never said gas/plasma that reaches AZ ever existed (Otherwise I'd be arguing the existence of an object with infinite fusion energy) just that the points stands that Pure Empty Space is only 0 thermal energy due to 0 matter period.

Good luck with that. 27% of the universe is some unknown concept called dark matter and 68% of it is dark energy (basically just straight-up energy): https://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/focus-areas/what-is-dark-energy

I don't think any part of the universe is gonna be absolute zero any time soon.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Doesn't this basically answer the OP's question?

Resisting the change in pressure without bloating up is probably just a durability feat (I don't think the characters themselves are experiencing any of those effects whatsoever).

More precisely I'd say it's an internal durability feat, which is a bit more impressive than flat dura (at lower durabilities at least) given there's a lot of dura negation abilities that function by abusing lower internal dura

 

[SeijiSetto]

How long do you think "extended period of time" should be? We need a minimum

on the order of 10s of hours, probably, according to the one source you posted that said "dozens of hours"

 

[Hypertornado099]

on the order of 10s of hours, probably, according to the one source you posted that said "dozens of hours"

I think a CRT needs to be made so that can be added to the Temperature Manipulation profile and we should remove Extreme Cold resistance for characters that didn't spend enough time there

 

[ImmortalDread]

I think it depends on which place, we can't simply default this to “10 hours”.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I think it depends on which place, we can't simply default this to “10 hours”.

What about a trip from some unknown section of the universe all the way back to earth?

 

[ImmortalDread]

What if that unknown section is near the sun? I think the notion of AZ loses its meaning if it is a beginning point there. I think it really varies; we can't simply make it solid and single condition. It also depends on the timeframe and the speed.

So many factors need to be accounted for and considered.

In fact, most fiction does not even take those small details into consideration. They mostly prioritize the ability to breathe in outer space.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

not once did i mention oxygen or breathing in ANY capacity
i said your body will rid itself of heat by way of radiating it away
radiation made of EM photons that don't require a medium to travel
this, however, takes time, so the resistance should only be granted for those who can be shown to spend an extended period of time (on the order of 10s of hours) in space

i'm not talking about a regular person at all i'm just genuinely confused as to how you responded to my post and thought "yeah they're DEFINITELY talking about breathing and/or burning calories from struggling, yessir"

Gas from the body being released and scattering across the cosmos is indeed a loss of thermal energy, but it's also a loss in mass and not so much something that effects specific temperature of the body. Plus, it doesn't debunk my other point that the human body initially reacts under pressure and there's initially an increase in specific temperature. Whether or not you, or the article said it or not doesn't change the fact that it's an overlooked fact. And that's especially true for superhuman characters as more muscle means more heat being produced. And characters with self sustenance would live much longer and if they're still alive, it means more heat to produce. Realistically, death happens well before the body gets colder.

DDM, can you help with this here?

@DontTalkDT I know this is a repeated topic/question, but you were the one who mentioned the details. I understand if your hands are full though.

Good luck with that. 27% of the universe is some unknown concept called dark matter and 68% of it is dark energy (basically just straight-up energy): https://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/focus-areas/what-is-dark-energy

I don't think any part of the universe is gonna be absolute zero any time soon.

Dark Matter is a hypothetical topic yes and I've heard about it numerous times, but at the same time. No one actually knows if Dark Matter actually exists same with Antimatter or Negative Energy. They could exist yes, but in the mean time; they're all things that have only been hypothesized and never things objectively proven to actually exist. And that once again does not address my other point(s).

 

[DaReaperMan]

What if that unknown section is near the sun? I think the notion of AZ loses its meaning if it is a beginning point there. I think it really varies; we can't simply make it solid and single condition. It also depends on the timeframe and the speed.

So many factors need to be accounted for and considered.

In fact, most fiction does not even take those small details into consideration. They mostly prioritize the ability to breathe in outer space.

And what about if it's from another habitibal planet with a vastly different Atmosphere to Earth's?

 

[ImmortalDread]

I believe the issue remains unresolved, as the significance of the separation between these two Earths (an undisclosed value in this scenario), the velocity employed (whether it's a reduced or increased pace, involving a mechanism or just velocity), and the respective distances of the planets from a star like the sun (greater distance implying colder temperatures and consequently fewer hours) all come into play) are all factors that needs to be established.

Numerous variables of importance are either absent or uncertain, making it exceedingly challenging to establish a definitive benchmark in this regard.

 

[DaReaperMan]

The sun's light ain't even visible in the cutscene I don't think lol

 

[ImmortalDread]

I'm uncertain about the scene you mentioned (did you edit the message, or did I overlook it?).

What I'm trying to convey is that if we aim to establish a 10-hour standard as the default, you'll definitely have to include every factor as a requirement to ensure resistance to AZ. This also involves addressing cases where the resistance to AZ is not met, whether they are relatively close or distant from the Sun or a heating star.

Additionally, if the purpose of the scene is to showcase the ability you're presenting, as I mentioned, the majority of fictional scenarios (notably, most of them) depend on the character's capability to breathe or move freely in outer space. Therefore, we also require some contextual statement or visual cues indicating that the character is capable of withstanding the cold and AZ conditions.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I'm uncertain about the scene you mentioned (did you edit the message, or did I overlook it?).

What I'm trying to convey is that if we aim to establish a 10-hour standard as the default, you'll definitely have to include every factor as a requirement to ensure resistance to AZ. This also involves addressing cases where the resistance to AZ is not met, whether they are relatively close or distant from the Sun or a heating star.

Additionally, if the purpose of the scene is to showcase the ability you're presenting, as I mentioned, the majority of fictional scenarios (notably, most of them) depend on the character's capability to breathe or move freely in outer space. Therefore, we also require some contextual statement or visual cues indicating that the character is capable of withstanding the cold and AZ conditions.

Considering the purpose of the scene is cartoon Monkeys and Gorillas bring fat cartoon Crocodile back to earth by strapping his ass to a spaceship with rope and then just leaving at ass speeds, AKA the ending, I'm gonna go with it wasn't for breathing purposes lol

 

[Hypertornado099]

And what about if it's from another habitibal planet with a vastly different Atmosphere to Earth's?

If its outside the solar system then probably

 

[DontTalkDT]

Yeah, so, you can freeze in space but it requires you to not be close to a star and takes a long time. So only characters that are in deep space for long could even be affected.

And then you get the problem that our body generates heat on its own to counteract freezing. Where a normal person might freeze, a superhuman might just keep their heat generation going to not do that.

Anyway, the point is that it's like giving a superhero cold resistance for staying outside in -2°C in their skimpy outfit. Or give a fish cold resistance for living in the ocean. If you want to do it at all, it is pretty minor resistance.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Yeah, so, you can freeze in space but it requires you to not be close to a star and takes a long time. So only characters that are in deep space for long could even be affected.

And then you get the problem that our body generates heat on its own to counteract freezing. Where a normal person might freeze, a superhuman might just keep their heat generation going to not do that.

Anyway, the point is that it's like giving a superhero cold resistance for staying outside in -2°C in their skimpy outfit. Or give a fish cold resistance for living in the ocean. If you want to do it at all, it is pretty minor resistance.

There's a couple other effects.
The pressure there is far lower so all your bodily fluids boil and that gas inside of you makes you start to bloat and swell like an ugly balloon. So resistance to low pressure... I guess? Idunno.

Actually, it'd be Resistance to Durability Negation

You know, the kinda crap Luffy and Garou pull for screwing up organs

And that DT?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

a superhuman might just keep their heat generation going to not do that.

Then the superhuman resists the cold. Resistance to cold. gg.