Why does Part 7 Scale to Parts 1-6?

[Standuser081]

Oh yeah. Forgot about the Red Stone of Aja feat. But I never really took seriously that statement from the Stand Stats section.

 

[Standuser081]

Also the time

that Funny Valentine

tried to shoot Johnny

with a normal gun.

I mean, Johnny doesn't have a stand that can catch bullets.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

If he had MFTL reactions, he could have casually tilted his head slightly to avoid it.

Or fired a nail bullet at it and shot it out of the air.

 

[DMUA]

Or guns can express that they're the most powerful weapons in fiction once again

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

At this point, we may just have to do "At least super sonic" possibly MFTL for the God tiers for SBR may be the best.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

There's not even a possibly though.

We don't say Hulk is possibly High 3-A for shaking infinite earths cuz that's an outlier.

And this is even more shaky than that, because at least Hulk actually shook the infinite earths. Diego from Another Universe is just being assumed to be MFTL without feats.

 

[Standuser081]

Or guns can express that they're the most powerful weapons in fiction once again

Batkick >>> Guns

 

[DMUA]

Batkick >>> Guns

Batkick was never in SMT Dante's arsenal

Batkick never killed Darksied

Batkick was never in Reinhard's 1-A legion

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

There's not even a possibly though.
We don't say Hulk is possibly High 3-A for shaking infinite earths cuz that's an outlier.

And this is even more shaky than that, because at least Hulk actually shook the infinite earths. Diego from Another Universe is just being assumed to be MFTL without feats.

Being the same ******* stand that is comparable to an FTL stand by statements and an MFTL stand by feats, makes it not an outlier. The God tiers are far stronger and likely faster than anyone else in SBR, so so far they have 1 anti feat and 1 to 2 feats. Thus a "likely" should suffice

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

No?

God tiers aren't even that much stronger. Excluding infinite rotation and love train, neither of which increase the person's speed. There's no reason that they suddenly become MFTL.

It's an outlier that isn't even a feat for everyone involved.

 

[Amexim]

We also will not scale Spider-Man to Thor no matter how often they fight. It doesn't matter how many times Goku gets shot with his guard down (speaking of which, this guard down thing is nonsensical and inconsistent— he gets punched off guard by Frieza before the ToP and doesn't die, along with taking punches from King Kai off guard, it's PIS). It doesn't matter how many times Superman isn't fast enough to save people from a gunshot. If we have a super strong reason to believe that Character A is at X tier and Y speed, no amount of fighting higher beings or losing to weaker things shall change that. That's why we use outliers.

That being said, I have no idea if that applies here.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Stronger ability wise I mean. Act 4 and Ball Breaker are both upgraded stands, and are very powerful. They don't mention speed so we don't know. D4C Love Train is treated as a new stand as well. Are we now limiting new and distinct forms because of previous forms?

What do you mean?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Not mentioning speed is not an argument to say they are faster. You have to prove they are faster, not say "well nothing says they aren't".

What do you mean what do I mean? Even if we assumed Diego The World to be MFTL, unless you can find feats of all the other SBR people being MFTL, it's a huge outlier for them.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I'm saying not mentioning speed is not an argument for them being faster or slower. It is neither here no there. The fact that they managed to fight somebody who is MFTL is itself a push for that

Tusk Act 4, Ball Breaker, Love Train, and The World exist in a scaling bubble within SBR. They do not scale to anyone else in universe. Same way that Kraft Work, Sex Pistols, Aerosmith, and Little Feet exist in a scaling bubble, all super sonic despite people around them being MFTL.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Spiderman has fought Thor and Hulk. That doesn't mean we scale him to MFTL+ if other feats say otherwise

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Marvel and DC have their own issues with scaling and play by different rules than Jojo does. We literally have that written on every single marvel and DC comics page, so don't pretend like they are comparable. We have 1 feat that puts them at Super Sonic, and one feat that puts them at MFTL. And make no mistake, keeping up with The World is an MFTL feat. So for the 4 God tiers of SBR, we have a range here. Also, if you wanna talk about outliers. There are so many bullet timing feats in SBR, that Johnny not being able to dodge that bullet would also be an outlier (if we didn't say that they don't scale to anyone but the God tiers of SBR). Diego got a bullet in on Jonnny, but that is only because Johnny was preocupied with The World and Diego was in his blind spot

On a side note, I found a BFR feat for Tusk Act 4

 

[Chartate101]

When does Johnny react to The World?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Don't forget that Johnny was weakened greatly when he failed to dodge the bullet

Here you go, Johnny turned and shot The World before his fist landed:


And no, this wasn't aim dodging or anything like that. He straight up did it right out of stopped time

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

My argument isnt that he doesn't scale to The World because he never reacted to it or whatever.

It's that he doesn't scale to it because it's a huge outlier.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

My argument isnt that he doesn't scale to The World because he never reacted to it or whatever.
It's that he doesn't scale to it because it's a huge outlier.

I know, I was answering the other dude who asked for when he did. My response to your argument is above his question

It can't be an outlier because there are only 2 speed feats that scale between the god tiers, who have a scaling bubble. 1 anti feat that happened after Johnny was severly weakened, and puts them somewhere bellow super sonic, and one that happened when Johnny was healed and is MFTL. Hence, they should have a rating that reflects this

 

[Standuser081]

Yeah, that one anti feat could just be shrugged off as PIS.

 

[Torlikoff]

Bump?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I think we've sort of agreed that Part 7 scales from the AP revision thread.

Although the speed thing is a bit concerning.

 

[Torlikoff]

The speed is what I disagree with scaling. At least in part 7 there are other AP feats around 8-C. There's nothing remotely close in terms of speed anywhere else.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

That's true.

 

[Chartate101]

you're right nothing else is close, but there is only one other speed feat in the D4C~LT/Ball Breaker/Tusk Act 4/THE WORLD scaling bubble

 

[Torlikoff]

What's the feat?

 

[Chartate101]

idk, but its what Iapitus said and he's more knowledgable than me

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

What's the feat?

Johnny successfully reacts to the world at close range. The only anti feat is Valentine successfully shot a weakened Johnny with a revolver

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Johnny also got shot by Dio Brando while shooting at the World

If he actually had MFTL speeds, he should have had all the time in the world (ha unintentional puns) to react to the bullet

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

The bullet was in his blind spot, when you read the chapter, Diego actually moved himself in a way that Johnny would not notice him as much. He was understandably more pre occupied with the big ass yellow diver in his face

 

[Standuser081]

I mean, it's understandable that Johnny got hit. Just because he has MFTL reactions he still has Average Human Speed. Way slower than bullet that are subsonic. Heck, even Jotaro needed Star Platinum to catch the bullet.

 

[Antvasima]

Well I don't think that just saying that THE WORLD just "looks like" The World is accurate. It has the same name, same appearance, exact same powers, it has the exact same stats (I know we don't use those, but still). It pretty much is the same thing. It's not the first time that we had a Stand that is the exact same one as another. Ratt and Hermit Purple are other examples. Even if it's from another universe, it's still the same basic entity, used by different people. And the AU thing in Jojo certainly isn't a hard reset that would endanger scaling.

If it was just me I'd be okay with outright 8-B, but I can settle with likely/possibly.

I think that Saikou makes sense.

 

[Standuser081]

We already have some feats for Tusk Act 4 that can back up THE WORLD scaling to the original one.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Which are? I don't remember Tusk 4 having any MFTL feats

 

[Standuser081]

I meant AP.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Alright.

But don't a lot of people still scale to being MFTL despite that apparently only being for people past when love train appears?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Only 4 people

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I mean our pages.

I know Scary Monsters Diego Brando is scaled to MFTL. Is anyone else scaled who isn't part of that scaling bubble?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

iirc Wekapipo and Megant Magent are as well