Why does DC Comics Raven now only have a profile for her Post-Flashpoint version, when Trigon has profile for both Post-Crisis and Post-Flashpoint?

[Goodyfresh]

Just what it says in the title. Why does DC Comics Raven now only have a profile for her Post-Flashpoint version and feats? Where is the profile for her Post-Crisis version/feats?

I get that Post-Flashpoint Raven is only Tier 4-B by scaling to her asshole of a dad (lol). But shouldn't there also be a Post-Crisis Rave who is At Least Tier 2-C by scaling to Post-Crisis Trigo?

I am a huge fan of this character (all versions of her) and she is basically my favorite superhero in any media, so it upsets me to see her get so terribly nerfed on this site as to be downgraded from At Least 2-B all the way to just 4-B. Am I somehow wrong about this stuff here? I don't see how, though. There SHOULD be a Post-Crisis version/profile for Raven separate from the Post-Flashpoint one we already have, just like there is for Trigo, right? And as far as I know, Post-Crisis Raven should be "varies, up to Tier 2-C/At Least 2-C at her peak" due to scaling from Trigon, who she has surpassed on a number of occasions, right?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Because no one made it yet

 

[Goodyfresh]

Because no one made it yet

Well, how does someone go about making a character profile? Not saying that I would be up to the task myself, though! I would have to provide scans from the comics and citations of relevant feats in order to back up claims of her powers and attack-potency/durability, and honestly I do not feel like putting in so much work, lol. Although I suppose it may be fairly easy to find the necessary scans using the Raven Respect Threads on Comic Vine and Reddit. But it still seems like more work than I am willing to do. Although I suppose that if no one else is willing to do it, I would be willing to make this a project to work o this weekend or next week at some point. I'm just not sure if I'm even qualified, though. I feel a task like this would be better left to a far more experienced and respected member of this wiki than I am.

Edit: Post-Crisis Raven really is an unbelievable badass, by the way. She is established multiple times as being far beyond (as in, INFINITELY beyond) the entire Justice League combined when at her peak (with the exception of Doctor Fate when he is a member of the League), and as most likely being the most powerful magic-user in the entirety of DC (above even the likes of any version of Doctor Fate) with the exception of actual high-level Gods and Cosmic Beings, and maybe Swamp Thing when he becomes one with the entire Green. In fact, she is so powerful that there are plenty of Gods and Cosmic Beings who are a good deal WEAKER than she is at her peak. Also, she can easily defeat most opponents using hax (especially her forced-emotion ability and her other mind-hax which include full-blown mind-rape inducing permanent madness), without even needing to use raw power at all.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

For something as big as a comicbook character, especially someone as major as raven, yeah you'd need to gather everything you can, and probably put it in a blog post beforehand so it can be evaluated

 

[Goodyfresh]

For something as big as a comicbook character, especially someone as major as raven, yeah you'd need to gather everything you can, and probably put it in a blog post beforehand so it can be evaluated

Ugh that sounds like SO much effort, dude. Lol. I mean, I do have a job and a real life, ya know? I did figure that making a profile for a DC Comics character, especially one as major as P-C Raven, would probably take hours or even days of effort to gather all the necessary materials and info for citations. Ugh. It's one thing to post votes in Vs-Threads, but I guess actually making a characfter profile, especially one for a major comics character, is a whole other thing entirely and takes a level of dedication of time and effort to this wiki that I am just not sure I feel up to. On the other hand, I REALLY want Post-Crisis Raven to have a profile on here, so that the whole world can easily have a reference-point to see just how incredibly OP and badass she really is. Post-Crisis Raven at the peak of her natural powers, with no special power-ups or anything, honestly has some of the best AP and hax feats, if not THE very best AP and hax feats PERIOD, of any Post-Crisis DC Superhero, with the one exception of Swamp Thing being the only one I know who doesn't need some kind of special one-time power-up to surpass her power in Post-Crisis DC.


Is there anyone on here who is more OCD and more nerdy/dedicated about this wiki than me, who would be willing to make a profile for Post-Crisis Raven or to possibly at least HELP me make one, myself? Lol.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

I can do it, i've had experience doing so.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Goody You do know you dont have to do it all at once right? You can take your time with it

 

[Goodyfresh]

I can do it, i've had experience doing so.

That would be amazing. I know that in terms of finding citations for her feats, a good place to start would be the Raven Respect Threads on Comic Vine and Reddit. Finding them via a google search is super duper easy, just search for "Raven Respect Thread" and you will find them.

I know for a fact that Post-Crisis Raven's power varied/fluctuated extremely widely, moreso than her Post-Flashpoint version. MOST of the time, her power tended to be on-par with (often portrayed as somewhat above) the heavier-hitters of the Justice League like Superman and Wonder Woman (meaning that Raven "at most times" was likely around Tier 4-B AP, and also Dura with magical barriers), enough to physically restrain the likes of such characters with her powers, although Raven's mind-hax and other hax (like time-stasis) always meant that she could easily defeat those characters regardless (even Superman's mind-hax-resistance through Torquasm-Vo was never enough to withstand Raven's psychic powers when she gets serious) without having to use raw power. However, at her peak, when her emotions were at their strongest while also completely in-balance (or completely unbalanced, in the case of Full Demon-Form Raven), she was portrayed and stated as surpassing her father Trigon, who was Tier 2-C in Post-Crisis continuity. Meaning that her power-level varied/fluctuated so wildly that it literally fluctuated by a factor of at least two orders of infinity, which is freaking nuts, but justifiable since her powers are dependent on her emotional state.

You will also find, in the respect threads that I mentioned, that in crossover comics with Marvel she was portrayed as being psychically above the likes of Professor Xavier when it comes to mind-hax (to the point that his powers won't work on her, if I remember correctly), and being on-par with the likes of the full power of the Universal Phoenix Force from Marvel, which is Tier 2-C. Although I'm not sure if feats or statements from crossover-comics are acceptable on this wiki, since their canonicity is extremely questionable.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

I'll get on it this week.

 

[Goodyfresh]

I'll get on it this week.

Amazing!

Unfortunately, it seems that finding actual scans online of the times when Post-Crisis Raven surpassed Trigon, is a bit difficult. I was only able to find ONE such scan among the images in the two respect-threads I mentioned, but I know that there were multiple other instances of her surpassing Trigon in the Post-Crisis timeline, most importantly including instances in which it was entirely her own power with which she surpassed him, as opposed to the most well-known occasion (her first time defeating Trigon) on which she had to channel the energy of the Souls of Azerath in order to reach such a level (which does seem to be an impressive At Least Tier 2-C feat of energy-absorbtion-and-redirection). But I can't seem to manage to track down scans of those occasions! All I know is that they definitely exist, because I remember her power surpassing Trigon's multiple times in the pre-Flashpoint continuity, and that most of those times it was her own power which surpassed his, rather than power channeled from an external source.

It's crazy for a character to have a level of power which varies so widely as to vary by literally several orders of infinity (4-B to High 3-A is one infinity, High 3-A to Low 2-C is another infinity, and Low 2-C to 2-C is infinity again, so Raven's power fluctuated to an infinite degree at least three times over) at least when it is entirely the character's own natural power we are talking about rather than special one-time power-ups. I can't even think of other characters in fiction with non-outlier feats as widely varied as Post Crisis Raven's. If it weren't for there being a justifiable reason (emotions) for her powers fluctuating so widely, and her dad being Trigon, I would honestly think that her 2-C showings were just outliers. But "the daughter surpassing her father" and "her powers fluctuate with her emotions" make enough sense as to indicate that her 2-C showings are not outliers, but rather just the rare occasions on which she tapped into her "true potential."

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

What'll do is go through everone of her post-crisis(1985-2011) apperances and see which feats and powers she's displayed.

 

[Goodyfresh]

What'll do is go through everone of her post-crisis(1985-2011) apperances and see which feats and powers she's displayed.

Wow man, that is a level of dedication to this community that I myself just do not possess. I can't even imagine how freaking long it will take to go through all of that, lol. Kudos to you, good sir!

I mean, going through "every one" of her post-crisis appearances would basically mean going through EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE TEEN TITANS COMICS from 1985 to 2011, as well as quite a few non-Teen Titans comics in which she appeared as well! That is just. . . .wow. Like I said, that's a pretty high level of dedication, haha.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

See this is why i stick to smaller characters like Ego lol

 

[Goodyfresh]

See this is why i stick to smaller characters like Ego lol

LMAO yeah, Ego has a lot fewer appearances in Marvel Comics than Raven does in DC XD

Going through all of Raven's post-crisis appearances will be a MASSIVE amount of work, since she is one of the more frequently-utilized and popular characters in DC outside of the "Holy Trinity" of Bats, Supes, and Wondy. She's popular with readers for a good reason, though; that reason being that she is freaking awesome, lol. Everything about her is just so cool--Her constant struggle against her inner demonic nature and against her father and her dark destiny, her incredible power and hax, her massive emotional and psychological issues that put Batman's complexes to shame and which make readers find her immensely relatable, her Goth aesthetic (and just her character-design in-general) and sinister-looking shadowy powers, etc. It's pretty obvious why she is so popular and why DC has utilized her so much. And of course, her popularity increased much further still with the advent of the Teen Titans animated series in the early 2000s; DC noticably started to utilize Raven even more in the comics after around 2004 or so, most likely because the exposure of wider audiences to Raven's character in the animated series allowed DC to see just how much general audiences tend to find her relateable and likeable.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

What'll do is go through everone of her post-crisis(1985-2011) apperances and see which feats and powers she's displayed.

Wow man, that is a level of dedication to this community that I myself just do not possess. I can't even imagine how freaking long it will take to go through all of that, lol. Kudos to you, good sir!
I mean, going through "every one" of her post-crisis appearances would basically mean going through EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE TEEN TITANS COMICS from 1985 to 2011, as well as quite a few non-Teen Titans comics in which she appeared as well! That is just. . . .wow. Like I said, that's a pretty high level of dedication, haha.

I did the same with doctor strange and here's his blog

 

[Goodyfresh]

What'll do is go through everone of her post-crisis(1985-2011) apperances and see which feats and powers she's displayed.

Wow man, that is a level of dedication to this community that I myself just do not possess. I can't even imagine how freaking long it will take to go through all of that, lol. Kudos to you, good sir!
I mean, going through "every one" of her post-crisis appearances would basically mean going through EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE TEEN TITANS COMICS from 1985 to 2011, as well as quite a few non-Teen Titans comics in which she appeared as well! That is just. . . .wow. Like I said, that's a pretty high level of dedication, haha.

I did the same with doctor strange and here's his blog

Wow man, it was YOU who made Modern Doctor Strange's profile on here? I am honestly super-mega impressed. I will be equally impressed if you end up doing the same for Post-Crisis Raven

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Yup

 

[Hellbeast1]

See this is why i stick to smaller characters like Ego lol

Ego's a planer what you mean /s

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Ego has like 1/10th the amount of appearances as Raven, probably even less than that

 

[Hellbeast1]

Did you miss the sarcasm

 

[Antvasima]

You should ask PrinceOfTheMorning for help.

 

[TheVoidofDeath]

Hello there, I am TheVoidofDeath from the comic vine! I am the known Raven expert on the comic vine, amino, and Quora. If you don't mind I will make changes regarding Raven's tiering, and the abilities posted! Raven at full power is multiversal in her classic incarnation, and currently, she rules hell at the moment.(Neron is her minion )

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Hello there, I am TheVoidofDeath from the comic vine! I am the known Raven expert on the comic vine, amino, and Quora. If you don't mind I will make changes regarding Raven's tiering, and the abilities posted! Raven at full power is multiversal in her classic incarnation, and currently, she rules hell at the moment.(Neron is her minion )

I'm for it.

 

[Antvasima]

You need to start a new content revisions thread for this. Also, we cannot scale from alternate future timelines.

 

[TheVoidofDeath]

You need to start a new content revisions thread for this. Also, we cannot scale from alternate future timelines.

Oh, I see a tad different from other sites, but sure I'll do that .

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for being reasonable.

 

[Garchomp777]

Oh, I see a tad different from other sites, but sure I'll do that .

I can help with making a Raven profile and list down the myriad hax she has. We can also do Zatanna post crisis if you want. Also, Ravens power level varies because her magic fluctuates. I believe her to be low 2-C due to superman scaling, but no point in proving 4-B is a lowball here. She does have some low 2-C and even 1-A versions, though. I have a lot of scans by the way, she would be one of the haxiest characters here