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Why do we consider the Super anime to be the "main canon"?

Nullflowerblush

Nullflowerblush

He/Him
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The profiles from the Dragon Ball Super manga are alienated from their previous incarnations in favor of the Super anime, with character profiles such as Frieza, Krillin, Piccolo, etc. taking after their anime counterparts; likewise, Goku and Vegeta's "Dragon Ball Super" pages are based on the anime.

Anything Super-related is based on the anime, with some exceptions being the "Chou" pages, of which there are a few; although, considering the anime is the more expansive story, this is completely justified. What is not justified is treating the anime as though it is the primary canon and the definitive continuation of the original manga, especially when the manga is touted numerous times as the canonical continuation to the original manga. The anime takes more after the Z anime than it does the original manga, so what's all the buzz about?
 
They're both considered canonical continuations of the original manga; they're both based on the plot outline by Toriyama who never really released it, but he encouraged the Manga and Anime writers respectively to take it as they will basically. But the pages were made years ago and was made during the times the Anime was considered more prominent. Originally, the manga was just seen as promotional material for the Anime; of course as times changed ever since Universe 6 saga and now have vastly different stories. Neither one of them are canon to one another, but the original manga is canon to both versions.

Worst case scenario is honestly just making new pages for Super versions for all characters as well as Chou versions, but noting all feats from the original manga can be used as an index for both versions.
 
Technically both are canon to the main OG db manga.
It goes like this.
Og canon manga: super timeline and chuu timeline, both diverges from the main manag and thus both are equally to the manga but not to each other
I t!m
 
It's not just this things like heros and xenoverse specifically takes the stuff from the super's anime instead of the manga so when it comes to overall scaling anime is more useful but yeah as the people above me explained both are considered canon
 
May I hope in? I am probably not bring up anything new, but I'd like to contribute regardless.

Dragon Ball Super (Anime) seems to have direct references to the DBZ Anime exclusive content, such as Gregory, and the Namekian Frog filler from Namek Saga, this might lead some to believe that the DBS: Anime is a direct follow-up to the anime series, including fillers.
No, it cannot be DB: Kai, it's utterly impossible, as Gregory was revived during DB: Kai, but remains dead during the events of DBS: Anime.

The Namekian Frog (Ginyu) being alive is also a plot-hole as he was killed when Buu destroyed Earth, and only those who weren't evil were revived.

Either way, during the 2018 events of the Tokyo Skytree + Viz North America Tour, during the event, the official canon history of the Dragon Ball franchise was revealed. / The expose included a History of Dragon Ball timeline confirming the events of the Dragon Ball Super manga to be the "canon sequel" (正統続編, seitō zokuhen; Literally meaning "legitimate sequel") to Akira Toriyama's Dragon Ball manga. This also implies that the DBS Anime is not a direct sequel, but rather, an adaptation of Toriyama's note.

Quoting herms: " You could also translate it as "proper sequel" or "legitimate sequel"."


Also, by that means, the Movie version of Revival of 'F, which is not included in the Mangá version of DBS, would be the canon for it.

Some extra things probably already argued for, Daizenshuu is not canon at all, and Volume 'F is the one of the only Databook written by Akira himself, and since the Movie has been connected to the DBS: Mangá, it becomes relevant again. The Revival of F arc is obviously mentioned in the official canon guide I posted above.

The only evidence for the DBS Anime being a sequel to the manga directly (as such, the "main canon") is this interview from 2015, which never really explicitly states is the continuation for the Mangá, Akira just says it's the continuation of the Majin Boo story, which exists in both media so... Idk why we consider the DBS Anime as the main canon. It has a lot of filler too, mostly what doesn't correlate with the mangá too.

So yeah, utterly, the DBS Mangá seems to be the definitive main canon.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Daizenshuu is not canon at all
Click to expand...
Definitely not, plus it doesn't need Toriyama to write it to be credible. Though this isn't really relevant to the discussion of the thread. The manga being the "main timeline" is fine, but they can still both be a follow up of the manga with one taking precedence. I can see the DBS Anime being scaled off of Z anime, though.

Also for what it's worth, the VA for Trunks feels there's a connection between Kai and Super, though he's just a VA so I'm not sure it holds much value.
 
Tbh the meta answer is the fact the DBS anime was kinda rushed out into production and thus didn't have a manga to follow (just Akira Toriyama's rough blueprints of his vision of DBS iirc), so Toei took the anime in one direction while the manga went in a different direction with multiple concepts that were changed/altered/removed compared to the anime.

I believe both can be considered equally "canon" but aren't connected to each other.
 
At some point, I was planning on creating a wide-scale CRT on this matter, using this doc to separate the Super anime from the original manga, but I gave up. I'm not opposed to the idea that "both are canon, just separate", but I'm not too sure about both the anime and the manga being continuations of Toriyama's original work.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
At some point, I was planning on creating a wide-scale CRT on this matter, using this doc to separate the Super anime from the original manga, but I gave up. I'm not opposed to the idea that "both are canon, just separate", but I'm not too sure about both the anime and the manga being continuations of Toriyama's original work.
Click to expand...
Plus the Broly film is heavily implied to be based on the DBS manga continuity (I heard others say it was confirmed but I couldn't find any official sources to back those claims), either way it could be a similar situation to Supernova from FF7 (where both the JP and PAL versions that attack are treated as equally canon) just on a much larger scale.
 
Ehnkr2beboh said:
Definitely not, plus it doesn't need Toriyama to write it to be credible. Though this isn't really relevant to the discussion of the thread. The manga being the "main timeline" is fine, but they can still both be a follow up of the manga with one taking precedence. I can see the DBS Anime being scaled off of Z anime, though.
Click to expand...
That's fair.
Ehnkr2beboh said:
Also for what it's worth, the VA for Trunks feels there's a connection between Kai and Super, though he's just a VA so I'm not sure it holds much value.
Click to expand...
Impossible, Gregory was revived during DB Kai, but is still dead during DBS, which is the case for the original Anime.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Not implied, straight up confirmed
Click to expand...
Completely ignoring the fact that Toyotaro threw in scenes that contradicted the events of the movie, this confirms nothing—it isn't touted as part of the timeline, nor does the banner even mention its story at all. It's an advertisement, hence why it's disconnected from everything else.
GodlyCharmander said:
Impossible, Gregory was revived during DB Kai, but is still dead during DBS, which is the case for the original Anime.
Click to expand...
Really? I can't seem to find anything to suggest that.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Not implied, straight up confirmed
Click to expand...
To copied what I've said in another thread:
Toriyama stated it's a continuation of the anime, and Toyotaro said if he ever drew the Broly Movie events, he'd do it in his own way. Even from the few things we've seen from the DBS Manga version have subtle differences. For instance, when fusing in the movie, Goku and Vegeta are battle-damaged, but aren't whatsoever in the manga.
Click to expand...
Also, while searching for a scan, I found this very interesting image about Gregory, but again, take it as you will.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Completely ignoring the fact that Toyotaro threw in scenes that contradicted the events of the movie, this confirms nothing—it isn't touted as part of the timeline, nor does the banner even mention its story at all. It's an advertisement, hence why it's disconnected from everything else.
Click to expand...
Ehnkr2beboh said:
To copied what I've said in another thread:
Click to expand...
That's fair. Btw, I wasn't trying to disconnect the movie from the Anime, but instead suggest that it fits both narratives, and if the only contraction is the battle damage, I'd say both of them can scale off the movie (which has a Uni+ feat)

does anyone know if the Light Novel for the DBS Broly Movie is canon or not?
 
GodlyCharmander said:
That's fair. Btw, I wasn't trying to disconnect the movie from the Anime, but instead suggest that it fits both narratives, and if the only contraction is the battle damage, I'd say both of them can scale off the movie (which has a Uni+ feat)
Click to expand...
Well, it's both that and Toyotaro saying he'd do it in his own way, implying there'd be other differences if he did a Broly manga adaptation. Though, I'm not necessarily opposed to scaling the manga off of the movie either.

Also, do we consider "Yo! Son Goku and his friends return" as canon to the DB Manga or DBS Manga? Since Gregory shows up next to Mr. Satan in a panel.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
May I hope in? I am probably not bring up anything new, but I'd like to contribute regardless.

Dragon Ball Super (Anime) seems to have direct references to the DBZ Anime exclusive content, such as Gregory, and the Namekian Frog filler from Namek Saga, this might lead some to believe that the DBS: Anime is a direct follow-up to the anime series, including fillers.
No, it cannot be DB: Kai, it's utterly impossible, as Gregory was revived during DB: Kai, but remains dead during the events of DBS: Anime.

The Namekian Frog (Ginyu) being alive is also a plot-hole as he was killed when Buu destroyed Earth, and only those who weren't evil were revived.

Either way, during the 2018 events of the Tokyo Skytree + Viz North America Tour, during the event, the official canon history of the Dragon Ball franchise was revealed. / The expose included a History of Dragon Ball timeline confirming the events of the Dragon Ball Super manga to be the "canon sequel" (正統続編, seitō zokuhen; Literally meaning "legitimate sequel") to Akira Toriyama's Dragon Ball manga. This also implies that the DBS Anime is not a direct sequel, but rather, an adaptation of Toriyama's note.

Quoting herms: " You could also translate it as "proper sequel" or "legitimate sequel"."


Also, by that means, the Movie version of Revival of 'F, which is not included in the Mangá version of DBS, would be the canon for it.

Some extra things probably already argued for, Daizenshuu is not canon at all, and Volume 'F is the one of the only Databook written by Akira himself, and since the Movie has been connected to the DBS: Mangá, it becomes relevant again. The Revival of F arc is obviously mentioned in the official canon guide I posted above.

The only evidence for the DBS Anime being a sequel to the manga directly (as such, the "main canon") is this interview from 2015, which never really explicitly states is the continuation for the Mangá, Akira just says it's the continuation of the Majin Boo story, which exists in both media so... Idk why we consider the DBS Anime as the main canon. It has a lot of filler too, mostly what doesn't correlate with the mangá too.

So yeah, utterly, the DBS Mangá seems to be the definitive main canon.
Click to expand...
i always though super was a continuation of kai since kai is just dbz without filler
 
Kidkinsey said:
i always though super was a continuation of kai since kai is just dbz without filler
Click to expand...
Agree. It made the most sense to me as well.
Kai was meant to be closer to the manga than Z and Super was its continuation. It shows Flashbacks from Kai and uses the same soundtrack.

Z and Super have less parallels than Kai and Super.

IMO
Z--> GT which is backed up by statements
DB manga --> DBS manga backed up by statements to be its main sequel

KAI --> DBS anime


The term " main canon" can't even be used here. Canon includes everything that is part of a fictional Verse. Main canon in that context is used when the fictional universe has materials from different sources and you want to distinguish between author material and secondary stuff. ( Example Starwars Legends with G-Canon and all that stuff.)

The term main canon can't be used in Dragonball context because you have three separate continuities ( ergo three different verses who are only based on the same source material) with their own material. ( Example Anime promo material has repeatedly put Jiren above Beerus, meanwhile Manga guides and posters only put Jiren vaguely as GoD-level.)
 
Last edited:
SirAlex09 said:
Agree. It made the most sense to me as well.
Kai was meant to be closer to the manga than Z and Super was its continuation. It shows Flashbacks from Kai and uses the same soundtrack.

Z and Super have less parallels than Kai and Super.

IMO
Z--> GT which is backed up by statements
DB manga --> DBS manga backed up by statements to be its main sequel

KAI --> DBS anime


The term " main canon" can't even be used here. Canon includes everything that is part of a fictional Verse. Main canon in that context is used when the fictional universe has materials from different sources and you want to distinguish between author material and secondary stuff. ( Example Starwars Legends with G-Canon and all that stuff.)

The term main canon can't be used in Dragonball context because you have three separate continuities ( ergo three different verses who are only based on the same source material) with their own material. ( Example Anime promo material has repeatedly put Jiren above Beerus, meanwhile Manga guides and posters only put Jiren vaguely as GoD-level.)
Click to expand...
"Main Canon" as in, "the one with more relation to the author"

DB Manga is the Main Canon. Doesn't make the Anime any less canon to itself though.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
"Main Canon" as in, "the one with more relation to the author"

DB Manga is the Main Canon. Doesn't make the Anime any less canon to itself though.
Click to expand...
Nope that would be original canon not main canon. T

You use main canon if you have different materials ( Daizenshuu, V-Jump , Toriyama Interview , manga) who all refer to the same fictional verse and you solely want to talk about author original stuff.
 
SirAlex09 said:
Nope that would be original canon not main canon. T

You use main canon if you have different materials ( Daizenshuu, V-Jump , Toriyama Interview , manga) who all refer to the same fictional verse and you solely want to talk about author original stuff.
Click to expand...
The terms are interchangable, don't know why you're making such a case when that's quite literally what I described.
 
Low-key wanted Pikkon to be canon, I know design wise he's a Piccolo clone but I found his fighting style and techniques to be enjoyable to watch.

Either way despite canon being one of the most important facets for indexing profiles here (at least for most verses), let's try not be "canon overlords" lol!
 
DDM basically answered the question. Both Super anime and manga are considered the same amount of canon to the Dragon Ball manga.
 
Well, the reason is simple. Toriyama doesn't actually write anything after the Dragon Ball manga that gets published. He just writes small notes which he gives to both, the Toei anime team and Toyotaro and they both do their own thing with it. The skeleton is same that comes from Toriyama but the details are worked upon by both of them separately. So both are treated as equally canon.
 
Dragon Ball continuity is similar to the Timeline split in Zelda. Original Manga is basically similar to where Zelda took place from Skyward Sword to Ocarina of Time. But after that, the Super Anime can be seen as an Adult Timeline continuity with Super Manga being seen as a Child Timeline continuity. Though the difference is that they're different continuities as opposed to two timelines within the same multiverse. But they're both still branched from the original continuity similar to how those aforementioned timelines were originally branched from one timeline.

The Gregory things are just cameos that really do not prove Kai or Toei anime being canon to Super. And trying to implement that is still trying to make fan theory. Also, the Broly Movie was advertised as a sequal to the Super Anime, but the Manga basically just had an add for it between scenarios. Furthermore, the Broly movie's entirely plot and Goku's rewritten backstory literally contradicts the Toei Anime or Kai being canon to Super. Given Animes still had the plot that Goku was sent to Earth against Bardock's will, Raditz telling Goku he was supposed to destroy the human race, and Bardock having nightmares about Goku possibly growing up to be a savage. And it wasn't cured until he saw an image of Goku confronting Frieza. None of which was in the Broly movie as Bardock sent Goku their himself to protect the planet.

So yeah, we really aren't making any changes here.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Given Animes still had the plot that Goku was sent to Earth against Bardock's will, Raditz telling Goku he was supposed to destroy the human race, and Bardock having nightmares about Goku possibly growing up to be a savage. And it wasn't cured until he saw an image of Goku confronting Frieza. None of which was in the Broly movie as Bardock sent Goku their himself to protect the planet.
Click to expand...
That point is just unfair completely, it also contradicts the Manga, as Toriyama stated multiple times that he put Bardock's original story in the manga before retconning it to what it is today. On top of that, Bardock is not even created by Akira.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
That point is just unfair completely, it also contradicts the Manga, as Toriyama stated multiple times that he put Bardock's original story in the manga before retconning it to what it is today.
Click to expand...
That's false we never got a canon backstory for bardock at least up until toriyama decided to write dragon Ball minus and also the jaco manga
 
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