Whitebeard (One Piece) vs. Hashrama (Naruto)

[Leandre.mccoy]

point is, you cannot assume the physics of multiple different universes to be the same, because if that were true, we'd all be able to hover in the air for as long as we need to to finish whatever we were doing like when luffy uses gear 3rd, he can fly or when he uses jet gattling, he can fly or when he just jumps and needs to finish his monologue or conversation

if we cannot use physics to judge feats then this entire wikia is pointless, physics are the tool that enables us to calculate destructive capacity and other stats, talking is a trope in fiction it doesn't take time technically, so your point of luffy hovering in the air in the middle of a sentence is moot.

we can still use physics in logical cases like speed, dc, end, lifting/striking, etc. but ichigo, weighing in at about 200 lb., not being pushed by a hypersonic attack is ridiculous that being said, this wiki is pointless, its just a fun passtime

and if there are special cases like kizaru and luffy, then it's not a standard rule

every rule and every concensus have special cases that ignore them to an extent, that doesn't mean the rule is wrong or can't be used, also luffy cannot augment his durability, he simply doesn't feel pain from physical attacks that don't use haki, but his durability is the same as his dc, if he were to be hit by a country level attack with his current feats he would die.

luffy increases his durability with balloon (making him able to take attacks he wouldn't normally be able to like cannonballs or sengoku's Buddha form punch) and its lowered when he shrinks

unless ichigo's feet are super magnetized to the ground, the he's not withstandind that much force according to the laws of physics of our universe a human standing vertically cannot withstand a great amount of horizontal pressure/force because of the very thin horizontal surface area (when we're standing, we're long, but not wide) unless we're being propped up (which ichigo wasn't) no luffy's rubber bones aren't going to break or ache because they're rubber, that wasn't the point you claimed that because of our laws of physics, dc=durability the point is that luffy can change his durability at will, so there is no constant, which means that claim cannot apply to him kizaru and his attacks are weightless and therefore forceless the light beams are obviously energy beams whether they're light speed or not (what does this have to do with anything, radio activity is also irrelevant and stupid of you to bring up) kizaru cannot use light speed physical attacks because human bodies bend and light doesn't,so if he's gonna attack like a human does, he's not moving at light speed and its not only his attacks without mass he can travel as light too

you forget that there are other forces at work there, like ichigo's spirit energy, which like naruto's case is the thing that augments power and speed stats in the bleachverse, ichigo spirit energy is what augments his durability and keeps him steady while he is firing mugetsu, also compering any of those characters to normal humans doesn't do them much justice in the first place, a human standing vertically cannot withstand horizontal forces normally, but does any human in our world possess spirit energy/chakra/devil fruit poweres? no, these forces are what originally augments the durability of those characters.

augments power, but not weight if youre strong enough to catch a train, you will not do so if it's speeding toward you unless there's some force keeping you on the ground for Naruto, its understandable because chakra has been stated and shown to be concentrated to feet to walk on various surfaces but reishi has shown no such application

i've never said luffy's bones would break, i said he wouldn't survive an attack that is stronger then what he could tank, kizaru and his attacks are not weightless, at least not his physical attacks, and if you're agreeing with me about kizaru's "light rays" then i don't see where the argument is, the radioactive argument was to show you that even light at different wave-lengths can cause damage, kizaru also isn't light speed because he hasn't demonstrated light speed feats, note that i have light speed in qoutes everytime i mentioned it.

kizaru travels at light speed for his yata mirror attack by shining a beam of light to reach his target, converting his body to light and traveling as the ray until he reaches his target the attack delivered afterward is not light speed however

 

[Illuminati478]

augments power, but not weight if youre strong enough to catch a train, you will not do so if it's speeding toward you unless there's some force keeping you on the ground for Naruto, its understandable because chakra has been stated and shown to be concentrated to feet to walk on various surfaces but reishi has shown no such application

first, reishi has demonstrated similar properties to chakra, in places where the reishi concentration in the air is low compared to that of the user, the user can use his own spirit energy to stand in the air, that is why captain level characters can stand in the air at the human world, and trancendent being like monster aizen and dangai ichigo can stand in the air of the soul society, but eeven without that fact if ichigo couldn't withstand the of mugetsu, he would die or be pushed back the fact that he didn't proves the law, also spirit energy was shown and even explained to be some sort of protective aure that pushes back attacks that are to weazk to penetrate it, if that isn't enouge to show you that spirit energy is what keeps ichigo steady when firing mugetsu, i don't know what is...

luffy increases his durability with balloon (making him able to take attacks he wouldn't normally be able to like cannonballs or sengoku's Buddha form punch) and its lowered when he shrinks

a very slight augmentation that is a result of luffy pumping himself full of air, using the air's resistence combined with his own body elasticity that makes him in mountain level durability for a slight instant, either take that explanation, or the simple PIS explanation, in either durability must at least be as high as destructive capacity, but it can also be higher... seriously, for every spacial case you show me i can show you 10 other cases where the concesus is correct, the reason this concensus exists is for the sake of powerscaling, we cannot expect characters to bring the entire setting of th story ruin just to give us enough feats for them, that is why we always put durability as high as DC so when a featless character is fighting a character that has feats, we would know how to scale it, if we didn't that many characters wouldn't have profiles because we would have little data of the potency of their abilities....

kizaru travels at light speed for his yata mirror attack by shining a beam of light to reach his target, converting his body to light and traveling as the ray until he reaches his target the attack delivered afterward is not light speed however

still debatable, regardless the attacks themselves are not light speed.

we can still use physics in logical cases like speed, dc, end, lifting/striking, etc. but ichigo, weighing in at about 200 lb., not being pushed by a hypersonic attack is ridiculous that being said, this wiki is pointless, its just a fun passtime

if you think this wiki is pointless then why bother arguing with someone you don't even know about subjects that don't even matter, as for the attacks speed; it doesn't matter, what matters is the energy (or force) that the attack generates, newtons law dictates "every action has an equal and opposite reaction" not "every speed has an equal and opposite counter speed" if that even made any sense.

 

[Leandre.mccoy]

a very slight augmentation that is a result of luffy pumping himself full of air, using the air's resistence combined with his own body elasticity that makes him in mountain level durability for a slight instant, either take that explanation, or the simple PIS explanation, in either durability must at least be as high as destructive capacity, but it can also be higher... seriously, for every spacial case you show me i can show you 10 other cases where the concesus is correct, the reason this concensus exists is for the sake of powerscaling, we cannot expect characters to bring the entire setting of th story ruin just to give us enough feats for them, that is why we always put durability as high as DC so when a featless character is fighting a character that has feats, we would know how to scale it, if we didn't that many characters wouldn't have profiles because we would have little data of the potency of their abilities....

actually, you can count most or all of one piece as the exception to that rule because their destructive capability is presented in a less traditional sense than other shonen or series in general whereas other series work on the notion that spiritual energy=power level or the powerup system, one piece works on a special move system

what I mean by this is, in Naruto, there are 2 parts to a fighter's strength (amount of chakra reserves and fighting aptitude), this is increased by various powerups (bijuu-mode, sharingan, chakra gates, byakugan, etc.) in bleach, it's whoever has the most reishi, most "broken" powers, and best fighting ability, this is also increased by various powerups (shikai, bankai, resurrection, etc.) in dbz it's about whoever has the most ki, which is also increased by...a variety of powerups (full power/burst limit and transformations)

but non-zoan one piece characters don't power up in the traditional sense (transforming/boosting all stats) like luffy, he's set somewhere between town and city level dc and endurance via feats of gear 2&3 because of this law right? but when luffy uses gear 2, doesn't his stamina and durability lower in a similar way to kaio-ken and chakra gate opening? sure his atk power raised, but his durability lowered as a result and do you think he'd be able to take an elephant gatling to the face?

then there's sanji, diable jamble/hell memories gives him a boost in dc, but not speed, endurance, or stamina

I doubt nami can take many of her attacks and the same goes for usopp

don chinjao and sai can break an ice continent, but can't take attacks of that level

boa hancock can ignore durability by turning you to stone and breaking you

aokiji too

so sure, there are a lot of proofs to the rule, but there are way too many exceptions for it to be standard especially when so many of them come from 1 universe understand what I mean

 

[Illuminati478]

you gave an exemple of one series, but most series work in the traditional way of powering up, so why the hell should we trash the concensus just because one series does not completely (although it does partially) goes along with it due to the author's laziness, DBZ, bleach, naruto, yu yu hakusho, saint seiya, fairy tail, rave master, almost all other shonen series, almost all of the video game series, Marvel, DC, image comics, all of those work by that consensus, if we won't use that rule as standarf, 90% of the profile in this site wouldn't have any basis to stand, that concensus, not only should we use it as a standard, its crucial for this site (or any site like this one)...

 

[Leandre.mccoy]

you gave an exemple of one series, but most series work in the traditional way of powering up, so why the hell should we trash the concensus just because one series does not completely (although it does partially) goes along with it due to the author's laziness, DBZ, bleach, naruto, yu yu hakusho, saint seiya, fairy tail, rave master, almost all other shonen series, almost all of the video game series, Marvel, DC, image comics, all of those work by that consensus, if we won't use that rule as standarf, 90% of the profile in this site wouldn't have any basis to stand, that concensus, not only should we use it as a standard, its crucial for this site (or any site like this one)...

again, not saying don't use it, just that for one piece, it's not too accurate and I wouldn't call that laziness, it's creativity

 

[Illuminati478]

so one piece characters would be judged per character, i never said we should ignore special cases, some one like kizaru for exemple has intengibility which ignores conventional durability to an extent, i am almost sure it is written in his profile, but i might be wrong, special cases exist everywhere, i am not denying that....

 

[DatBoyNorbit]

bump

 

[Blanked]

This thread is older than me someone close this.

 

[Vizorus69]

Someone should really close this.

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

(still not closed)

 

[LordGinSama]

(still not closed)

Literally could have just ya know, not commented on a thread that's been dead for literal years.

 

[Quibster]

most sane naruto v one piece thread