White Room's Masterpiece vs Wammy's House's Masterpiece (1-0-0)

[DeltaStriker22]

Kiyotaka Ayanokoji vs L Lawliet​

Plot:
Ayanokoji and L are competing against each other in the Witch Hunt game from Alice in Borderland.
Whoever solves the game first wins and the other person dies.
Both are forbidden from "directly" killing each other.

Rules:

• Speed is not equalised.
• Location: Game Venue
• 15 days prep time, rules of the game get revealed on the 16th day. No prior knowledge of each other's abilities.
• Current Ayanokoji. Equipment: None.
• L's equipment: Gun
• Both are in character but willing to kill.
• Ayanokoji's Stats:
  • AP: 13.2 Kilojoules
  • Speed: 72++ m/s
• L's Stats:
  • AP: 1.5 Kilojoules, higher via Gun
  • Speed: at least 7.7 m/s (Baseline Athletic Human)

Wincons:

• Solving the game first.
• Having the other character die and solving the game after.

Ayanokoji (1): @RoggerReggor,
L (0):
Both Die (Neither of them could solve the game) (0):

 

[RoggerReggor]

Can you explain in brief how the game works exactly? I know some of the stuff like people have to find out who the witch is and that too, within 2 hours of time, and that, the witch would be someone they both would already be knowing. But how does it work exactly? Do they have to prove that there is a witch, or do they have to just know who the witch is and protect themselves all way?

 

[DeltaStriker22]

The rules of the game are:

• Momoka Inoue has been murdered. A “Witch” stabbed her in the chest with a knife.
• The witch who took her life is hiding among the members of the Beach.
• The murderer is just a witch in title, it can be a man or a woman.
• Should the players find the witch, exact divine judgment, and burn their body along with their wretched soul in the Fire of Judgement, it's Game Clear.
• It’s Game Over if the witch survives for 120 minutes. (If the witch survives, everyone else will die.)
• There is no penalty for throwing an innocent player into the fire.

The twist is that the girl who was murdered wasn't murdered, she committed suicide. L and Koji have to find out what really happened to the girl.

To clear the game Koji or L need to declare the witch's identity to the rest of the players. The Dealers are always watching the game so if the right answer is given once the 2 hour timer ends the game will be cleared. If the wrong answer is given every player's head will get lasered once the 2 hour timer is over.

They will need to explain their reasoning to the rest of the players since if they don't the other players will come to the conclusion that koji/L is the witch and is making up a story to trick the other players in order to survive till the end and clear the test. If they think that koji/L is the witch the other 64 players will try to kill koji/L before the 2 hours are over.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

They will need to explain their reasoning to the rest of the players since if they don't the other players will come to the conclusion that koji/L is the witch and is making up a story to trick the other players in order to survive till the end and clear the test. If they think that koji/L is the witch the other 64 players will try to kill koji/L before the 2 hours are over.

This part might not apply to koji though.
All other 64 players are Average-Athletic AP/Dura and speed. Even if they jump koji he'll probably fodderize them all lol.

 

[RoggerReggor]

The rules of the game are:

• Momoka Inoue has been murdered. A “Witch” stabbed her in the chest with a knife.
• The witch who took her life is hiding among the members of the Beach.
• The murderer is just a witch in title, it can be a man or a woman.
• Should the players find the witch, exact divine judgment, and burn their body along with their wretched soul in the Fire of Judgement, it's Game Clear.
• It’s Game Over if the witch survives for 120 minutes. (If the witch survives, everyone else will die.)
• There is no penalty for throwing an innocent player into the fire.

The twist is that the girl who was murdered wasn't murdered, she committed suicide. L and Koji have to find out what really happened to the girl.

To clear the game Koji or L need to declare the witch's identity to the rest of the players. The Dealers are always watching the game so if the right answer is given once the 2 hour timer ends the game will be cleared. If the wrong answer is given every player's head will get lasered once the 2 hour timer is over.

They will need to explain their reasoning to the rest of the players since if they don't the other players will come to the conclusion that koji/L is the witch and is making up a story to trick the other players in order to survive till the end and clear the test. If they think that koji/L is the witch the other 64 players will try to kill koji/L before the 2 hours are over.

So, the scenario is an IRL (FIXED) scenario from scratch, and the required stuff is:

• Emotional Intelligence and Manipulation (mainly) - for perceiving the identity of the witch and convincing others.
• Emotional Intelligence mainly includes Emotional Perception and Understanding, along with Management and Facilitation being more important for intrapersonal reasons, Engagement and Realization seem to be less important, but are still needed, though not as important as important as others.
• Manipulation can include influencing via leadership and domination (pure and mass types), negotiations (scenario-applicable), deception (pure, direct and indirect both), may include deceiving based on acting skills to save oneself, where the intrapersonal emotional intelligence may come in handy, but mainly includes fabrication and sophistry, along with fallacies.
• Logical Reasoning - All Deductive, Abductive and Inductive reasonings, but abductive and inductive may be more important that deductive for unknown evidence-unrelated inferences.
• Strategy and Planning - Strategy seems more important than Planning, however, considering the action-oriented approach of the game rather than more going towards future-oriented approaches, for the lesser time of the game.

I think these are the most important ones, though yes, some more may be scenario-specific, but upon the nature of the game, these are the most needed ones.

A debate may be started upon these, I will get my points ready in some time.

 

[RoggerReggor]

This part might not apply to koji though.
All other 64 players are Average-Athletic AP/Dura and speed. Even if they jump koji he'll probably fodderize them all lol.

Combat is permitted? Kiyotaka has more advantage then, lol.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

Combat is permitted? Kiyotaka has more advantage then, lol.

Yes. The players are allowed to kill whoever they think is the witch.
Though, to make the match more fair Koji and L aren't allowed to directly kill each other.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Yes. The players are allowed to kill whoever they think is the witch.
Though, to make the match more fair Koji and L aren't allowed to directly kill each other.

"So, you said I have to burn the witch?"

"Well, how about this?"

- Kiyotaka Ayanokouji

Icl but I can see Kiyotaka not losing this once. If he's close to the 2 hours mark (not viable), then he would probably burn everyone to just win lmao.

I will write up the entire thing later on.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

"So, you said I have to burn the witch?"

"Well, how about this?"

- Kiyotaka Ayanokouji

I can totally see Koji pulling this if he gets desperate lmao.

Icl but I can see Kiyotaka not losing this once. If he's close to the 2 hours mark (not viable), then he would probably burn everyone to just win lmao.

Though, burning everyone won't work. To win Koji will need to figure out that the witch committed suicide otherwise the witch technically got away with killing someone without being found out therefore resulting in her victory and Koji's loss i.e. death by laser.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Zodiac exam clears L in reasoning, Trust

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Koji fodderizes L in EI, Planning, Strategy, Deception and Manipulation

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Should've thrown them into the cube

I have a decent bit of knowledge on L's intelligence and investigation skills. How good is Ayanokoji at being a detective? What are his most impressive deduction feats?

 

[RoggerReggor]

Zodiac exam clears L in reasoning, Trust

 

[DeltaStriker22]

Here are some of Koji's deduction feats:

• Immidiately deduced that information about S-system was being withheld from the students after the teacher described it to the students. (Vol1)
• Deduced that marks for tests could be bought by using private points despite having very little information about the S-system. (Vol1)
• After Sudou got into an incident Ayanokoji scanned the whole classroom (40+ students) and deduced that Sakura knew something about the incident but was keeping quiet. (Vol 2)
• Deduced that the reason for Kushida's hatred for Horikita was because they went to the same middle school from one conversation. (Vol2)
• During the first island exam Koji saw through Katsuragi's deceptive strategy and deduced that Yahiko was the real leader of Class A. (Vol3)
• Immidiately deduced that Ibuki was a spy and her being kicked out of Class C's group was Ryuuen's strategy from her body language. (Vol3)
• Deduced Ryuuen was still on the island even after all of Class C forfeited the test and went back to the ship just from seeing a radio on his table when he visited Class C's base earlier. (Vol3)
• Deduced Kei's trauma of bullying and parasitic nature in one (at best two) interactions. (Vol4)
• Deduced Nagumo's strategy with little fraction of info from Kei Karuizawa. (Vol8)
• Deduced how Nagumo thinks and operates in just two rounds of Old Maid. (Vol8)

 

[DrasticallyExemplified]

Both L and Koji have more than enough reasoning ability to figure out that the Witch committed suicide, though L might be slightly faster. His intuition is enough to instantly solve the case, and this isn't an exaggeration, because it's rather simple. Even if you don't know it for certain, you can always throw Inoue's body in the fire just in case. (I honestly see both of them doing this) It'll ultimately just come down to however can burn the witch's body first. I'd say Koji has an advantage here because of his speed.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Here are some of Koji's deduction feats:

• Immidiately deduced that information about S-system was being withheld from the students after the teacher described it to the students. (Vol1)
• Deduced that marks for tests could be bought by using private points despite having very little information about the S-system. (Vol1)
• After Sudou got into an incident Ayanokoji scanned the whole classroom (40+ students) and deduced that Sakura knew something about the incident but was keeping quiet. (Vol 2)
• Deduced that the reason for Kushida's hatred for Horikita was because they went to the same middle school from one conversation. (Vol2)
• During the first island exam Koji saw through Katsuragi's deceptive strategy and deduced that Yahiko was the real leader of Class A. (Vol3)
• Immidiately deduced that Ibuki was a spy and her being kicked out of Class C's group was Ryuuen's strategy from her body language. (Vol3)
• Deduced Ryuuen was still on the island even after all of Class C forfeited the test and went back to the ship just from seeing a radio on his table when he visited Class C's base earlier. (Vol3)
• Deduced Kei's trauma of bullying and parasitic nature in one (at best two) interactions. (Vol4)
• Deduced Nagumo's strategy with little fraction of info from Kei Karuizawa. (Vol8)
• Deduced how Nagumo thinks and operates in just two rounds of Old Maid. (Vol8)

Some of these are abductive reasoning, can't see how that wouldn't work here though.

 

[Doggo]

They won't be able to overpower Ayanokouji right? Even if L deduces first, he can't exactly burn him down

 

[DeltaStriker22]

They won't be able to overpower Ayanokouji right? Even if L deduces first, he can't exactly burn him down

L and Koji aren't allowed to directly harm each other. (Not that L could do anything to koji in a fight)
If L deduces correctly first he'll win the match.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Both L and Koji have more than enough reasoning ability to figure out that the Witch committed suicide, though L might be slightly faster. His intuition is enough to instantly solve the case, and this isn't an exaggeration, because it's rather simple. Even if you don't know it for certain, you can always throw Inoue's body in the fire just in case. (I honestly see both of them doing this) It'll ultimately just come down to however can burn the witch's body first. I'd say Koji has an advantage here because of his speed.

This is wrong if you are saying that L's intuition is absolute. Even though he was accurate with predicting that Light is Kira, and he is said to have the "god's intuition" (not metaphorically, but rather hyperbolically), it is still limited to only 90% confirmation. And again, L didn't know just then that Light was Kira, he still needed to attack Light and then have his intuition make his intuitive inferences.

Another thing which is funny is that L cannot run around and do his stuff, it is canonical that if L doesn't sit his usual way, his reasoning abilities would drop by 40%, meaning that just when L tries to boost his reasoning, he would be perceived as weird and also his appearance is like that, meaning that a huge majority of NPCs would think of L being suspicious. Also, if this is not enough, he severely sucks at social skills, meaning that he will fail to explain a lot of stuff to others.

And while yes, L can go and burn someone just so, it will be too bad for him as well. Imagine you are in the middle of something, and you see a guy beating up someone just because they have an intuition which can have them be suspicious. L would be well-aware of that and wouldn't just believe his intuition. His intuition has good chances of being wrong and he is aware of that.

His best intuition feats are being 90% sure about Light being Kira from like Episode 5 and being able to "hear bells" about scenes before his unfortunate death.

 

[Doggo]

L and Koji aren't allowed to directly harm each other. (Not that L could do anything to koji in a fight)
If L deduces correctly first he'll win the match.

So how is Ayannokouji going to get burned exactly?

 

[DeltaStriker22]

bump

 

[DeltaStriker22]

So how is Ayannokouji going to get burned exactly?

If L deduces first Koji dies of laser to the head.
The players can't hurt Ayanokoji. But L has a gun, he can form a strategy to somehow make use of that and have koji assassinated.
Also, if Koji can't solve the game his head will get lasered.

 

[TheHuntsman1001]

Here are some of Koji's deduction feats:

• Immidiately deduced that information about S-system was being withheld from the students after the teacher described it to the students. (Vol1)
• Deduced that marks for tests could be bought by using private points despite having very little information about the S-system. (Vol1)
• After Sudou got into an incident Ayanokoji scanned the whole classroom (40+ students) and deduced that Sakura knew something about the incident but was keeping quiet. (Vol 2)
• Deduced that the reason for Kushida's hatred for Horikita was because they went to the same middle school from one conversation. (Vol2)
• During the first island exam Koji saw through Katsuragi's deceptive strategy and deduced that Yahiko was the real leader of Class A. (Vol3)
• Immidiately deduced that Ibuki was a spy and her being kicked out of Class C's group was Ryuuen's strategy from her body language. (Vol3)
• Deduced Ryuuen was still on the island even after all of Class C forfeited the test and went back to the ship just from seeing a radio on his table when he visited Class C's base earlier. (Vol3)
• Deduced Kei's trauma of bullying and parasitic nature in one (at best two) interactions. (Vol4)
• Deduced Nagumo's strategy with little fraction of info from Kei Karuizawa. (Vol8)
• Deduced how Nagumo thinks and operates in just two rounds of Old Maid. (Vol8)

To add to this:

His island exam reasoning of deducing Ryuuen's plan and his deal with Katsuragi both came from Ayanokouji noticing dirt in Ibuki's fingernails when they met. This was also directly confirmed in Y1V7 when he explained as much to Ibuki. (Y1V3)

He deduced Housen's plan to stab himself and Ichika's involvement in crafting the plan immediately after seeing Housen's knife. (Y2V1)

He was able to induce a pattern on the second island exam which allowed him to determine what tasks would appear and where from just observing what tasks appeared throughout the first day. He then used that to predict that exact time and location a specific task to give water would appear. (Y2V3)

Reasoning why Ayanokouji would certainly solve this first:

The most important factor in determining a winner in this game is likely Ayanokouji and L's ability to gather information, as they both certainly have the Logical Reasoning ability to solve the case. I will certainly argue that Ayanokouji actually has superior LR to L but given the timeframe and the nature of the scenario the ability to gain information is more important. Noting that, Ayanokouji FAR exceeds L in that capacity which would lead to him winning here. His general observation skills are much better than L's. Him profiling Nagumo while watching him play Old Maid, him noticing dirt in Ibuki's nail and making deductions based on that are both examples of his observational skills which exceed L. Ayanokouji is also able to discern emotions just from a person's eyes, he does this multiple times throughout the series. In terms of Emotional Intelligence and Manipulation Ayanokouji is far above L's skills so his ability to read the other players, gain information from them gives him a massive advantage.

In terms of social intelligence Ayanokouji (who is criminally underrated here due to the anime) also gaps L. He has shown a flawless ability to integrate into social situations if he chooses to, he can fabricate a personality to further integrate, and his understanding of human psychology makes his social engineering much better as well.

L relies on Data Analysis and often trap setting to make his deductions. He considers his case and slowly works to narrow the possibilities until only 1 remains. This is seen with how he first narrowed down his suspects for Kira by proving he kills without needing to be present, and proving he is located in Kanto. Then narrowed down to someone with a strong sense of justice, a student, someone with a connection to the police etc. eventually leading to Light being the prime suspect. In doing this he had access to massive amounts of data curtesy of the police investigations and collated data regarding heart attack deaths. His primary style of deduction is incompatible with this environment since he has no pawns to gather information for him and is MUCH worse than Koji in manipulation. He doesn't have access to data at the start and his observational and EP skills are also far below Koji.

For these reasons it seems clear that Ayanokouji would win here since he can much more effectively gather information, profile the suspects, and has the better LR to solve the case the fastest.

His intuition is enough to instantly solve the case, and this isn't an exaggeration, because it's rather simple. Even if you don't know it for certain, you can always throw Inoue's body in the fire just in case. (I honestly see both of them doing this) It'll ultimately just come down to however can burn the witch's body first. I'd say Koji has an advantage here because of his speed.

This honestly is L's only possible wincon as far as I can tell and in practicality has almost 0 chance of succeeding. First you would be assuming that L just intuits that Inoue was the witch, and that is a stretch. I know he is called God's Intuition, but intuition isn't just instantly knowing who did it. Even if you assume L comes to that conclusion purely based on Intuition the chances of him being able to burn the body without Ayanokouji stopping him are tiny. If Koji sees L about to burn a body, he would stop him because he knows if he doesn't solve this case first he dies. If someone else is about to burn a body that means there is a chance that person would win, and therefore Koji would lose. To prevent that possibility he would stop L from doing so, and likely just burn the body himself. In fact it's possible Koji does this at the start just to prevent that possibility from happening. He would also make sure he personally burns anybody else who is killed himself for that same reason. With his massive physical stats advantage there is no way L can stop him from doing so.

In conclusion, Koji wins and I don't see a wincon for L here at all given he doesn't have any actual advantages over Koji in this scenario.

 

[RoggerReggor]

So, in short, this isn't a fight, it's a massacre.

 

[RoggerReggor]

I vote for Kiyotaka here upon Huntsman's reasoning and other reasons above.

I think Takuya should be given a chance to do something here as well, as I heard he's pretty good on islands.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

I vote for Kiyotaka here upon Huntsman's reasoning and other reasons above.

Counted.