White Queen & Those Scaling - possibly/likely Galaxy level

[DontTalkDT]

We did have a debate about the topic before, but I hadn't finished reading the novel at that point so that I didn't participate. Hence I want to have another debate on this.

What's this about?
The White Queen has some statements that indicate her being Galaxy level:

Let's test out something you think has to be impossible. Let's test out something you have subconsciously kept in mind as something not even the White Queen could accomplish. I will relieve you of that delusion. Oh, dear. There's no reason to tense up like that. I'm not talking about splitting the earth in two, swallowing the solar system, or balling up the milky way. Besides, I doubt that kind of obvious violence would surprise you at this point. I'm talking about something more unexpected, more absurd, and more fun.
	~ Volume 4 Prologue​

"Let the hunt begin." The father stared at the son's game board and moved a piece. Once they had a goal, the greater than 10,000 White Queens would begin to move as one. And any member of that group was powerful enough to destroy the entire galaxy.
	~ Volume 7 Stage 03 part 6​

When the first statement came up in Volume 4 it was not worth considering. However now that we have 2 statements in that regards, one author statement and one of the person itself, I believe the evidence is solid enough to mention this fact on her page, in form of a possibly/likely statistic.

Counter-Arguments and Counter-Counter-Arguments
As said, this was talked about once before so there were already some arguments against this made. I will list them and give my opinion regarding them.

The White Queen is consistently said to destroy Planets
This is the first argument that was brought up. The White Queen is, before and after the Galaxy statements, very consistently described to easily destroy the Planets. Since the gap between Galaxy level and Planet level is so gigantic it should not be reasonable to rank a character consistently said to easily destroy planets as Galaxy level.

To get into this arguments I think it is worthwhile to look at the Planet destroying statements of The White Queen:

"Now, now. Let's have some fun, brother☆ …And if you refuse, I'll exterminate every last human in the area." Her tone was light, but that only made it more frightening. Given her power, it would actually be harder for her to not destroy the world.
	~ Volume 1​

"Perhaps so." The White Queen sounded cheerful. "I can let the world live or die with a single fingertip, but I don't have any intention at all of carrying that burden. I might hear a scream or the cries of death, but so what? An individual just has to take responsibility for their own life. This world's custom is to let individuals deal with the misfortune and tragedies brought about by their own decisions, right? I see no reason to feel the slightest twinge of responsibility."
	~ Volume 1​

That compressed power was meant to kill a summoner and the Material. No master plan was needed to destroy the world. If she lost control of her power and it scattered outward, that single attack might have caused the planet to crumble like a biscuit.
	~ Volume 1​

The White Queen's attacks can destroy the basic components that make up both worlds. If her concentrated and controlled power were to disperse outwards, it could destroy the entire planet.
	~ Volume 1​

As Renge had pointed out, Meinokawa Aoi had no reason to directly fight the White Queen like Kyousuke and Biondetta did. Taking on an opponent so ridiculous that she could blow away the entire world with a single forehead flick provided an unbelievably high risk and nothing in return.
	~ Volume 7​

Each individual Queen could blow away a world or two without even trying, and this was an entire swarm of them.
	~ Volume 7​

It would be harder not to destroy the world, letting the world die with a fingertip, the power scattering would make the planet crumble, blowing away the world with a forehead flick and destroying a world or two without even trying.

Does that sound to you like something that would indicate any lower end on how small the percentage of the power is she uses to destroy a planet?

If one tried to describe how easily a Galaxy level character could destroy a planet, do you think these description would sound much different from what is given above?

I don't think so.


And when it comes to the power gap one also has to consider that authors often don't go by how large a gap is on paper, but with stages of what sounds more impressive. Often the progression of power is something like Planet -> Solar System -> Galaxy, despite the power gap between the levels in reality being vastly different.


But why is the author so consistently stating that the character is Planet level, instead of making each of these statements a Galaxy level one? Earth is the only populated spot in the universe. Destruction of the Planet means death of all living beings, end of all civilization, anything relevant in the universe being destroyed. It is similar to a villain saying "everyone dear to you will die" instead of "everyone in the building will die" even if the former is a subset of the latter, since the former drives the relevant point home better than including a bunch of people/things not that relevant for the reader.

The White Queen was defeated by a Planet level being
The Colorless Little Girl defeated the White Queen and she is Planet level.

The answer to this is pretty much just that the Colorless Little Girl would scale to the White Queen. Yes, The Colorless Litlle Girl also has "destroy the world" statements, like each page in her books contains enough power to cleanly blow away the planet, but for these pretty much the same as for the ones above applies. I just don't see them indicating an upper limit of her power.

The first statement is just the White Queen boasting and hence not useable
On its own I would agree with the reasoning that that first statement is not usable due it it possibly just being the White Queen boasting. However with the matching narrator statement it gets enough credibility to not just be ignored.

To that comes that while a lot of The White Queens boasting is there, it usually has a piece of truth behind it. To give what is probably the most extreme example: The White Queen once stated something along the lines of "Nothing is impossible for me". That sounds ridiculous and for vs-purposes should of course be ignored, but in universe there is some truth to it. She has defeated the laws of the universe and made them obey her. If she is above all the rules, what is there to stop her from doing impossible things? So it's not just her saying random stuff to appear powerful, but has some truth to it.

Conclusion
Is this solid enough for a straight upgrade? No, I wouldn't encourage that by any means.

But is this solid enough to find a mentioning in her stats? Yes, I believe it is.

When it comes to possibly or likely, I would say possibly is better.


Opinions?

 

[Cropfist]

I agree that her having planet-busting statements is a total non-argument against galaxy given how extremely casual they are.

 

[Antvasima]

I am personally fine with "possibly Galaxy level".

 

[LazyHunter]

The first "galaxy statement" is tecnhically not even a statement. It's the White Queen talking about how Kyousuke might consider those things to be beyond the White Queen's power. She doesn't actually claim to be capable of doing them, and Kyousuke considering her incapable of splitting the earth in two doesn't fit the rest of the series.

And even if she did claim to be capable, she's an incredibly arrogant character, so yes, we can dismiss it as boasting unless given more evidence, but this is unecessary since she didn't actually claim anything, just commented on Kyousuke's preconceptions.

There's a single galaxy statement, the one from volume 7, which doesn't give any specifics, and even in the same novel she's still treated as casual Planet level.

Does "casual planet level statements" really mean that "lone galaxy level statement is true". I thought that a very casual feat/statement gives you at most an "at least" rating unless it's a small tier/the feat is close enough to the tier's upper end that you can get away with jumping to the next tier.

Similarly, I'm a bit lost on the argument about the Colorless Little Girl. That's like saying that Character A, a character with consistent casual supersonic statements/feats and a single FTL statement/feat, is really FTL despite a supersonic Character B defeating them in battle, because Char B scales to Char A and is thus also FTL. Colorless Little Girl defeating WQ is an argument against the galaxy level thing because of her own lack of feats and statements on that level, the scaling is only done after we decide if the galaxy level thing is valid or not.

Like, don't misunderstand me, I'd be okay with a possibly galaxy level too if everyone else is, but I'm a bit confused about this single statement being enough evidence given some stuff I've seen with other verses and how even the Planet level thing is only statements (very consistent and clear statements throughout the series, but still, the feats are much lower since WQ doesn't want to destroy the planet)

 

[Antvasima]

LazyHunter does have a point about that we usually are more strict about this sort of scaling.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I will just bump this for the sake of more opinions.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I thought wq actually destroyed a universe or something recently? If not i am leaning towards LazyHunter.

 

[Golden_Void]

Idk about this verse, but Lazy's argument has me interested.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I thought wq actually destroyed a universe or something recently?
If not i am leaning towards LazyHunter.

Only if Quenser Barbotage has a universe level tranquilizer gun (Would fit together with Tsuchimikados multiversal handgun...) ^^

There is a non-canon crossover written by the original author of all series involved where the white queen destroyed the universe. But in that same crossover the white queen was knocked out by the before mentioned tranquilizer gun, so it's better to ignore that one.

 

[LazyHunter]

As DontTalk said, you're likely talking about her feat from "We Tried Having a Group Blind Date, but It was an All Stars Affair and a World Crisis", which is not valid for a few things. It's a non-canon gag crossover. Power levels and verse mechanics are ignored for comedy, so it's even worse than a regular crossover.

For example, the WQ is accidentally put to sleep by a Heavy Object tranquilizer gun wielded by Touma, which has some obvious issues. (Blood Sign Materials are invulnerable to non-supernatural attacks and weapons; the tranquilizer shouldn't even be able to pierce her skin anyway, both for obvious reasons of HO not having 3-A or Low 2-C tools and the fact that the tranquilizer hit the WQ in the first place because it bounced off Waltraute's armor, and it was stated that a normal breastplate would have done the same)

It's not even a feat for base White Queen/the WQ that appears in the actual Blood Sign series anyway, but for an upgraded form.

The spiky-haired boy was really trembling now, but the white cocoon melted before his eyes all the same. They were now in the presence of true radiance. What stepped out was a new form of that white girl. It was a never-before-seen super evolved version that shined with a lamé-like light. This was the USMDSGMR (Ultimate Special Miracle Dangerous Sadistic Good Morning Rare) version. The White Queen gave a dark smile that seemed to ask just who had interrupted her slumber.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I see, in that case i will have to agree with LazyHunter's reasoning above then.