Whis vs Silver Surfer

[Lord-Of-Creation]

Assume that Whis is 1.5x as strong as Beerus and has all of Beerus's abilities.

So since Beerus is solar system level, Whis would be solar system level + half a solar system.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Is this going only by what we currently know about Beerus and Whis? Because there could be drastic power changes, soon. However, going strictly by what we know right now, Surfer wins via superior hax as well as I'm pretty sure being faster.

 

[Lord-Of-Creation]

Is this going only by what we currently know about Beerus and Whis? Because there could be drastic power changes, soon. However, going strictly by what we know right now, Surfer wins via superior hax as well as I'm pretty sure being faster.

Whis is faster than Surfer since he flew from one universe (technically the Other World is a separate universe), to another in 3 minutes.

Whis also has superior time manipulation, matter manipulation, and DC than Surfer.

Not to mention Surfer is only FTL with his skateboard, while Whis has MFTL combat speed and reactions.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Surfer has moved so fast he's traveled back in time.

Surfer's time manipulation stretches back millions of years, while Whis has a limit of three minutes.

Surfer has better matter manipulation feats, whereas Whis has like...one.

Surfer is MFTL+ with the board, actually. I'm also pretty sure it's on a higher end of the spectrum than Whis.

Whis has superior DC and Durability (not counting regen), but that's about it. I'm not seeing current Whis winning this fight. After an upgrade maybe, but not now.

 

[Lord-Of-Creation]

"Surfer has moved so fast he's traveled back in time."

Unquantifiable speed. That just proves that according to comic book physics, people can time travel with enough speed.

"Surfer's time manipulation stretches back millions of years, while Whis has a limit of three minutes."

Scans?


"Surfer has better matter manipulation feats, whereas Whis has like...one."

My statement of Whis having better matter manipulation feats comes from power scaling off of Majin Buu. Majin Buu has much better matter manipulation feats than Surfer, and Whis is above even him.

"Surfer is MFTL+ with the board, actually. I'm also pretty sure it's on a higher end of the spectrum than Whis."

Surfer can't cross entire universes in minutes.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Massively FTL speeds are needed to travel back in time according to comics.

You can't scale abilities like that between characters.

I'm pretty sure Whis is only a few million times faster than light, Silver Surfer is casually in the millions.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

how is whis only 1.5 times whis

for all we know the god scale might be a complicated function, and not a linear one, like power levels


anyway, whis wins

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Lord-of-Creation

It's established that he needs to be moving that fast in order to travel back in time. He's also crossed galaxies in seconds, so I don't see why you're saying he's only FTL. Here is Surfer casually travelling from one side of the universe to the other, bending space-time with his speed.Here he is moving so fast he time travels. I feel like you're seriously trying to downplay him, here.

Buu doesn't have better matter manipulation feats than Surfer. Abilities also don't scale like that. A character who is stronger than another cannot automatically do everything the weaker one can.

Oh, and Surfer crossed the universe in seconds. Look at the first scan.

Whis isn't winning this.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

how is whis only 1.5 times whis

Pretty sure it's from the time Toriyama said SSJGod is a 6, Beerus is a 10, and Whis is a 15.

 

[Lord-Of-Creation]

@Lord-of-Creation
It's established that he needs to be moving that fast in order to travel back in time. He's also crossed galaxies in seconds, so I don't see why you're saying he's only FTL. Here is Surfer casually travelling from one side of the universe to the other, bending space-time with his speed.Here he is moving so fast he time travels. I feel like you're seriously trying to downplay him, here.

Buu doesn't have better matter manipulation feats than Surfer. Abilities also don't scale like that. A character who is stronger than another cannot automatically do everything the weaker one can.

Oh, and Surfer crossed the universe in seconds. Look at the first scan.

Whis isn't winning this.

Even so that's only travel speed. Surfer's combat speed feats aren't anywhere near Whis's levels. Whis can blitz with a multi solar system busting attack right when the fight starts and win.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

as i have said before numercial dbz/dbs power systems have almost nevr been linear, so there is a good chance that the god scale acts like a complex function, instead of a linear one

 

[The_Everlasting]

Silver Surfer can engage in combat on his board (We see this with the Runner).

 

[Lord-Of-Creation]

Anyways I think we should upgrade Beerus to multi galaxy level based on Toriyama's statements.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the Surfer was only listed as having slightly superhuman movement speed in the Master Edition of the official Marvel handbook. He might very well have swifter flight speed though. However, I think that Whis is likely more powerful, and a more skilled fighter.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Cosmic awareness kiiiinda helps with that. Plus, even with the DC advantage, Whis isn't putting Surfer down.

This is Uni-Lord, who is on a much higher level than current Whis, attempting to reduce the Surfer to nothing , but he just instantly reforms and keeps fighting.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Yeah, I'm not sure Whis can put Silver Surfer down thanks to SS's Regenerationn, combined with his hax, I'd say Silver Surfer would be the victor.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Well, the Surfer was only listed as having slightly superhuman movement speed in the Master Edition of the official Marvel handbook. He might very well have swifter flight speed though. However, I think that Whis is likely more powerful, and a more skilled fighter.

I don't doubt Whis is more powerful or more experienced, but he is severely lacking in the versatility department comparatively. Power isn't everything, which is a big problem that most threads seem to ignore.

 

[Antvasima]

Like most Marvel characters, the Surfer is insanely inconsistent though. He normally isn't kept anywhere near the level he was at during the Uni-Lord storyline.

 

[Lord-Of-Creation]

Yeah, I'm not sure Whis can put Silver Surfer down thanks to SS's Regenerationn, combined with his hax, I'd say Silver Surfer would be the victor.

Goku was able to overcome Majin Buu's Regenerationn, and Whis >>>>>xmillions>>>>>> Buu Saga Goku.

 

[Lord-Of-Creation]

Oh and I almost forgot. Whis should also have sealing, since Beerus was able to seal Old Kai into the sword.

Whis can just seal Surfer right off of the bat and win the fight.

 

[The_Everlasting]

You can't scale stuff like that.

 

[Antvasima]

@LoC From what we have seen so far, those statements contradict the actual series. However, this may change when we learn more from the DBS anime.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Antvasima

That's Regenerationn, not power, though. I'm not vouching for universal base Surfer. That would be absurd.

@Lord-of-Creation

He overcame it with a Spirit Bomb specifically created to cleanse evil, not through sheer power.

 

[Lord-Of-Creation]

@Lord-of-Creation

He overcame it with a Spirit Bomb specifically created to cleanse evil, not through sheer power.

That's just fan fic. Vegeta wasn't evil, as Porunga brought him back to life when they wished for all good people to be brought back to life, but Goku was still afraid of killing Vegeta with the Spirit Bomb. Hercule needed to move Vegeta out of the way before Goku used the spirit bomb.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

It's not a fan fic, though? That's specifically how the Genki Dama works. It only hurts those with evil in their hearts. Vegeta was pretty damn evil, at that point.

 

[Lord-Of-Creation]

It's not a fan fic, though? That's specifically how the Genki Dama works. It only hurts those with evil in their hearts. Vegeta was pretty damn evil, at that point.

No I'm talking about Buu saga. Dende wished for all good people to be brought back to life, and Vegeta was brought back. Goku even said "hey vegeta you're brought back to life! Porunga must think you're a good guy." Goku then charged the spirit bomb, but Vegeta was in the way and Goku said "Vegeta move out of the way! I don't want to kill you too!". Meaning the Spirit Bomb could kill Vegeta even though he was good.

 

[AllanSaiyan]

thats true it could be a plot

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Also, since you wanted some matter manipulation feats:

Surfer turns a weapon into atoms.

Surfer turns a person into atoms.

Surfer can exist without a body.

Surfer steals the oxygen from water.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Vegeta is good, but he still has evil in his heart. He's not 100% a happy go lucky hero, you know. He did kinda commit genocide on other races, and all.

 

[Lord-Of-Creation]

Also, since you wanted some matter manipulation feats:
Surfer turns a weapon into atoms.

turns a person into atoms. Surfer turns a person into atoms.

Surfer can exist without a body.

Surfer steals the oxygen from water.

Whis still speed blitzes.

Or Whis can just seal the Surfer/

 

[The_Everlasting]

Whis can't seal people, and Surfer likely has MFTL+ reactions since he can control his movement while on his board.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Except Surfer is faster on his board, and I've already told you why Whis isn't putting him down so easily.

You have also shown no evidence that this sealing technique that Whis may or may not be able to do will work on the Surfer, especially as someone who can exist multiple places at once due to being connected to the power cosmic and does not need a body.

I sincerely feel this is downplay.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Except Surfer is faster on his board, and I've already told you why Whis isn't putting him down so easily.
You have also shown no evidence that this sealing technique that Whis may or may not be able to do will work on the Surfer, especially as someone who can exist multiple places at once due to being connected to the power cosmic and does not need a body.

I sincerely feel this is downplay.

I'm already feeling the guy is dowplaying Surfer here too.

 

[Hoozuki012]

Wheiss FTL or MFTL??!! Jajajjaaajajajajaja

 

[AllanSaiyan]

MFTL+

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I also haven't even talked about the very real possibility of Surfer simply absorbing Whis' ki, yet. He's shown time and time again that he can absorb any kind of energy on a vast multitude of scales.

Here's something basic. Surfer absorbing the energy from a star.

Then we have stuff like Surfer absorbing Gamma energy . Twice . This is in two different eras, by the way, so it's not some one-off power.

Here he is absorbing cosmic energy from Firelord.

And here he is absorbing and redirecting energy from Uni-Lord, who is using cosmic energy mixed with the energy of souls.

To top it all off, he can turn matter into pure energy, too.


I apologize if I'm seeming abrasive, but I don't like seeing characters downplayed so heavily and I'm also quite tired of the "higher tier > lower tier ALWAYS" mentality. This isn't higher dimensions, people. This is two guys on the same dimensional playing field fighting.

 

[AllanSaiyan]

I also haven't even talked about the very real possibility of Surfer simply absorbing Whis' ki,
i think u have proven why Silver Surfer would win, if he can't accept it he is just a fanboy because whis hasn't shown much feats or haxs to compete with him as of now unless beerus does something to change that

Then we have stuff like Surfer absorbing Gamma energy . Twice . This is in two different eras, by the way, so it's not some one-off power.

Here he is absorbing cosmic energy from Firelord.

And here he is absorbing and redirecting energy from Uni-Lord, who is using cosmic energy mixed with the energy of souls.

To top it all off, he can turn matter into pure energy, too.


I apologize if I'm seeming abrasive, but I don't like seeing characters downplayed so heavily and I'm also quite tired of the "higher tier > lower tier ALWAYS" mentality. This isn't higher dimensions, people. This is two guys on the same dimensional playing field fighting.

i think u have proven why Silver Surfer would win, if he can't accept it he is just a fanboy because whis hasn't shown much feats or haxs to compete with him as of now unless beerus does something to change that

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

i think u have proven why Silver Surfer would win, if he can't accept it he is just a fanboy because whis hasn't shown much feats or haxs to compete with him as of now unless beerus does something to change that

...Dude, I like you.

You're unbiased and cool.


Oh, and like I said, this is only based on what we know about Beerus and Whis at the moment, not what they might do in the future.

 

[AllanSaiyan]

I just don't like the wank they give beerus and whis without anything to back it up

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

^

Yup. That old DBZ wank without evidence trick is still there.