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Whis and Beerus speed fix

Faisal_Shourov

Faisal_Shourov

VS Battles
Retired
2,773
126
I see that the site is still taking 26 minutes from Battle of Gods to measure Beerus and Whis speed. That got retconned by Dragon Ball Super. These are the newest speed calc for Whis and Beerus based on their Episode 2 timeframe

Taken from Narutoforums by Willyvereb www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=26376

If I assume Beers' nebula is about 20 lightyears wide which is reasonable then it needs to be circa 37,000 to 370,000 lightyears away to be invisible. This only a lazy calc assuming 35 degrees (camera visuals), 1000 pixel picture height and 1 or 0.1 pixel apparent size of the unseen nebula.

Anyways, with this if Whis traveled this under a minute that'd roughly require 16 to 160 billion times FTL speed. Which makes Beers about 12 to 120 billion times FTL.

So yeah, we actually no longer nee that BoG feat at all. If anything I like this more for the same reason others mentioned. Whether canonical or not the use of the map was a bit iffy with the old calc.

The new feat doesn't take the out of scale map of retconned BoG speed feat into account.

Beerus- 12 to 120 billionx ftl

Whis- 16 to 160 billionx ftl

Thank you very much
 
Wait, considering Beerus did this with less than 10% of his power, wouldn't he be hundreds of billions to trillions of times ftl at full power?
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
This seems pretty legit. I'll highlight it to get some more opinions.
Click to expand...
This is the most recent calc as of now, as it doesn't take BoG and DBZ map to measure stuff. So IMO this should be fine to use
 
Wait wasn't there a calc based on the shockwaves Goku and Beerus created and reacted to That did put them in the low Trillions?
 
Dbfan and critic said:
Wait wasn't there a calc based on the shockwaves Goku and Beerus created and reacted to That did put them in the low Trillions?
Click to expand...
That was short burst. This is their consistent speed while flying in space. Also this is more quantifiable because of explicit time frame given
 
Faisal Shourov said:
If I assume Beers' nebula is about 20 lightyears wide which is reasonable then it needs to be circa 37,000 to 370,000 lightyears away to be invisible.
Click to expand...
Ok I've asked this once in the past but I'll ask it all again. Where the hell did the whole 37,000 to 370,000 lightyears come from. I haven't really seen a reliable article saying that a nebula has to be 37,000 to 370,000 lightyears away to be invisible or rather I haven't seen any articles for it. I want clear cut proof of this. I'm also pretty sure it was the whole reason why the nebula calc had to be redone.

If ya can provide proof for the whole 37,000 to 370,000 lightyears then this calc might be acceptable...
 
But aren't "nebulas" in the DB universe a collection of planets and stars?...I think the Solar System was called a galactic nebula inside the North Galaxy?...
 
I think it uses inverse square of light to calculate the visibility of the nebula from the point whis was observed

E1 =(d1/d2)┬▓*E2

Visibility of Orion nebula with naked eye= 0.014 lux

Distance of Orion nebula = 1.27x10^19 m

Surface luminosity of Orion nebula= 2.25x10^35

Lux of moonless, overcast night= 0.0001 lux

0.0001 = (1/d)^2 x 2.25 x 10^35

1/d = 2.11 x 10^-20

d= 4.74 x 10^19m or 5013 light year for the nebula to be invisible to naked eye

The person who did these calc might have used slightly different numbers for luminososity of night sky and the nebula, but the range of value will be around the same magnitude of order

http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/light/lux-to-candela-calculator.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lux

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_Nebula
 
Well I'll just point out one thing here. If "m" used here is meters then that means that the distance from the Orion Nebula to earth is 1.27x10^16 m / 9,460,800,000,000,000 (amount of meters in one light year) which is equal to 1.34238 light years. If I remember correctly the Orion nebula was 1,344 light years away from us not 1.34238 light years.

Also 1.5 x 10^17m is =/= 15,854 light years. 1.5 x 10^17/9,460,800,000,000,000 (amount of meters in one light year) = 15.85489 light years not 15854 light years.

Now please clear these things up. I believe you meant to use kilometers instead of meters. I'll check everything else in your calc...
 
I know, I messed up km and m. I fixed it already. Sorry for the inconvenience

I suggest you revise it a few times on your own...
 
No worries there and I probably will. As for your calc it seems to be accurate from a casual glance. I'll check it more thoroughly in a while. Anyhow well currently this is still a just a possible upgrade but good job at backing it up.
 
Thank you. Also note that this calc is based on Dragon Ball super and not Battle of Gods, which is now retconned. BoG calc was based on DBZ universe map which is out of scale (the earth looks hundreds of millions of lightyears is radius). As such, the old calc has become outdated and completely invalid from current perspective
 
I don´t have time right know to look at the physics, but I am sceptical. For one thing because the Orion nebula is one of the brightest nebula and because the Helix Nebula isn´t visible with the naked eye even through it is only 714 ly away from earth and is "one of the closest to the Earth of all the bright planetary nebulae." So I would actually like to take a look at it in detail (but as said no time right now).
 
More than that. 3982690810 is 3.9 billion ftl. The numbers for Beerus in this calc are 12 to 120 billion
 
@Faisal Shourov:

Something can not be right with that method of calculation you use. The helix nebula is usually invisible to the bare human eye even at optimal circumstances (like any object with an apparent magnitude above 7). And it is only 714 ly away from earth. That means the result for the distance it can not be spotted through the human eye has to be Ôëñ 714 ly, just by the practicle data we have about its visibility. 10000 ly is so insanely above that, that it can impossibly be right.
 
DontTalk said:
@Faisal Shourov:Something can not be right with that method of calculation you use. The helix nebula is usually invisible to the bare human eye even at optimal circumstances (like any object with an apparent magnitude above 7). And it is only 714 ly away from earth. That means the result for the distance it can not be spotted through the human eye has to be Ôëñ 714 ly, just by the practicle data we have about its visibility. 10000 ly is so insanely above that, that it can impossibly be right.
Click to expand...
Its because Helix nebula has very high surface luminosity. Its brighter than Orion nebula, so it needs to be further away to be invisible to naked eyes. Please check all the steps of calculation and sources.
 
I didn´t really look at the calculation you did to this point, but it stands to reason that an object that can´t be seen at the distance it currently is doesn´t have to be any further away in order to not be seen. If the Helix nebula is 714 ly away and can not be seen with the bare eye, than it can already not be seen at 714 ly.

Also the apparent magintude of the Helix nebula is a lot higher than that of the orion nebula, which means that it can be seen much worse on earth, even through it is much closer. If it were initially brighter than the orion nebula I would wonder why it can not be seen with the naked eye on earth, while the Orion nebula can be seen with the bare eye.

I am not very familiar with astronomical calculations so I would need a clear explanations how you got values for the Visibility of the Helix nebula with naked eye and the Surface luminosity of Helix nebula. And why is your d1 = 1 in your inverse square law equation?
 
I was wondering, I got Beerus to be 4,000,000,000c with that number, how is he 12,000,000,000-120,000,000,000c?
 
FanofRPGs said:
I was wondering, I got Beerus to be 4,000,000,000c with that number, how is he 12,000,000,000-120,000,000,000c?
Click to expand...
There are two calcs on the Narutoforum page. I am talking about the second one by Willyvereb
 
For now it's definitely in the billions range, I'd say let Super give a feat or two more. His travel speed could be higher or lower than his combat speed after all.
 
Well, as I said I don´t really get where you get your values from, so I can not really check your calculation. But there is a simple other method to verify the result even then. I will just calculate the necessary distance with a method I know and if everything is right we should get the same result. Simple.

So I will calculate it using the apparent magnitude of the Helix Nebula.

That value is suited very well for what we want to do with it, because:

  1. It usually only uses the visible spectrum of light. Many things send out a lot more light in invisible spectrums than in visible spectrums. But we don´t care for the invisible parts of the light, given that we can not see them, so we do not want them in our formula.
  2. The apparent magnitude that is measured is always corrected to the value that it would have without the earths atmosphere. So it is ideal for rating viewability in space.
  3. We know at which point an object isn´t visisble anymore. Anything with an apparent magnitude of 7 or higher is not visible to the typical human eye (Note that on the apparent magnitude scale an object is brighter if the magnitude is lower, so something with a magnitude of 3 is brighther then something with a magnitude of 5)
Now the apparent magnitude is of course related to the distance. If something gets closer it gets brigther, so that alone already tells us the Helix Nebula could actually be even a bit closer until a human could see it.

To calculate how close it can be without being seen we would have to know how bright the helix nebula in the first place. The unit we want to convert to is the absolute magnitude. The absolute magnitude is the hypothetical apparent magnitude of an object at a standard distance of exactly 10.0 parsecs from the observer. That unit is suited well for this calculation, because one can directly translate apparent magnitude to absolute magnitude by the formula https://upload.wikimedia.org/math/5/6/f/56ffc496ed02ef0a242d420ff5024936.png

where d is the distance to the star measured in parsecs, m is the apparent magnitude, and M is the absolute magnitude.

Setting in the values m=7.6, d=219 and solving to M we get M=0.8977794257994075

So that is our absolute Magnitude. That is brighter than Sirius, so not bad.

Using the same formula we can calculate how close it could be without being visible. Since it should be invisible to an apparent magnitude of 7 we define m=7 and insert it into the formula together with our absolute magnitude M. And solve to d.

m-M = 7 - 0.8977794257994075 = 6.1022205742005925 = 5*(log10(d)-1) /:5

6.1022205742005925/5 = 1.2204441148401185 = log10(d)-1 /+1

1.2204441148401185+1 = 2.2204441148401185 = log10(d) /10^

10^2.2204441148401185 = d = 166.1284889313913071848 pc = 541.82716234605 ly = 5.1262267829559E+18 m

So Beerus took 80 seconds per the OBD calculation and Whis took 60 seconds.

5.1262267829559E+18 m / 60 seconds = 85437113049265000 m/s = 284987533.1062 c

5.1262267829559E+18 m / 80 seconds = 64077834786948750 m/s = 213740649.82965 c


So there you have my numbers. Time to discuss which numbers are correct.
 
You got some things wrong. We already know the distance between Helix Nebula and Earth. Beerus and Whis covered a lot more than the distance from where Nebula is visible to naked eye. That distance is a lot more than 541ly. 541ly is the distance between Helix Nebula and Earth, its not the distance required for the nebula to be invisible for humans to naked eye

i have already posted the link above which cites the source of my calc
 
"541ly is the distance between Helix Nebula and Earth"

The distance between helix nebula and earth is 714 ly not 541 ly and what I calculated is the distance for to to be invisible to the human eye. 714 ly is also the distance I had to use in the calc to get the result. And 541 ly is the minimum distance for it to be invisible to the human eye. If not you have to explain me were my error lies.

"i have already posted the link above which cites the source of my calc"

I don´t see any of your sources stating the surface luminosity of the helix nebula in the units you used (it is stated in magnitudes per square arcsecond) nor is the visibility with the naked eye stated anywhere. I would wonder which unit your surface luminosity is even supposed to have.

What I can tell you as well is that your use of the inverse square law is wrong. The d=1 in your link is an example for the case of you having a measurment of the energy density at 1 meter distance. As far as I know surface luminosity gives brightness at the origin, which means that the formula has to be corrected to 1/(4*¤Ç*d^2).( See here)
 
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