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When The Discussion Cries - New Forum

ExcelsisBerny said:
Witches are stated to exist between the gaps of fragments and those fragments are all the possible concepts of the lower reality/system.
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Yeah but vsb is very strict about tranduality, so I don't know if that is enough to get it. We will se i guess
Karabach-barabach said:
Low-key, I wanna see some battles between Chinamen vs Witches. Anyone feeling the same?
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Chinamen will randomly have aca 5 and td 3 that can not be interacted with. I wanna put them agaisnt akuto or something but chinamen is interesting too
 
Railgun said:
Yeah but vsb is very strict about tranduality, so I don't know if that is enough to get it. We will se i guess
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07th is really clear about transduality, there are multiple ways to argue it in the franchise, most major works have an argument. (Off the top of my head and what's accepted on the wiki, TRT, Higanbana, Umineko and Higurashi all have extremely blatant arguments).

I don't think a properly formatted nonduality/transduality CRT for meta beings would get rejected off a standard gap. Might do that myself at some point.
 
ExcelsisBerny said:
Truths have the ability to destroy your concept and the inherent properties of your being, making you fall into Oblivion as pure consciousness, unable to return on your own.

In PSW, this falls under a hax type called "Ontological Property Manipulation," but I’m not really sure how to index it here. I don’t think labeling it as just conceptual destruction is enough.
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Could you elaborate on this I’m not sure why it would be more than or not just conceptual destruction?
 
Hasty12345 said:
Could you elaborate on this I’m not sure why it would be more than or not just conceptual destruction?
Click to expand...

Because it’s not just conceptual destruction, it’s the negation of being.

It’s stripping an entity of all its ontological properties and reducing it to a consciousness without identity, adrift in the void, prior to any act of self-determination.
 
ExcelsisBerny said:
Because it’s not just conceptual destruction, it’s the negation of being.

It’s stripping an entity of all its ontological properties and reducing it to a consciousness without identity, adrift in the void, prior to any act of self-determination.
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"consciousness without identity"

Have you got scans for this, I can't recall the specific statements?
 
Hasty12345 said:
"consciousness without identity"

Have you got scans for this, I can't recall the specific statements?
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Meta existences initially exist as emptiness, devoid of properties and thought.

From that nothingness, they develop an identity (a sense of self awareness) and once they gain that identity, they begin to think (act of thought), thereby self-determining their existence by defining their restrictions.

あなたが自発的に遊びを始めるなんて珍しい。

"It is rare for you to spontaneously start playing."

私の問い掛けに頷くことしかできない存在だったのに、･･･いつの間にか自我を持ったのかしら …?

"Even though you were an existence that could only nod in response to my questions... did you somehow come to possess a sense of self before I noticed?"

………………嬉しいわ。私にも妹、あるいは弟? ができて。

.....I'm happy. I too have gained a younger sister-or maybe a younger brother?"

かつての私もあなたのような虚無の存在だった。

I too was once an existence of emptiness (kyomu) like you."

それがいつしか自我を持ち、思考を持ち、自らの姿を持つに至ったんだもの。

"That's because, before I even realized it, it came to have self-awareness, thought, and even its own form."

だからあなたが自我を持ったって不思議なんて思わないわ。

"That's why I don't find it strange, the fact that you came to have a sense of self."
Click to expand...

The red truths are capable of reducing a being to that state of empty consciousness, erasing all their properties and returning them to Oblivion.
 
Has anyone plans on canonizing Higurashi Mei —or, at least, the stories written by Ryukishi—? Though idk how wiki treats dropped off games
 
ExcelsisBerny said:
It is. Higanbana is extremely clear with the whole dichotomy stuff.
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Tzimtzumim said:
07th is really clear about transduality, there are multiple ways to argue it in the franchise, most major works have an argument. (Off the top of my head and what's accepted on the wiki, TRT, Higanbana, Umineko and Higurashi all have extremely blatant arguments).

I don't think a properly formatted nonduality/transduality CRT for meta beings would get rejected off a standard gap. Might do that myself at some point.
Click to expand...
I have to read Higanbana but i am too lazy these days... But if you guys think there is solid arguments, I'm excited to see them in the future! WTC being active in the wiki makes me happy
 
Higanbana's really good imo. It's style of several short stories with a kind-of teaching made it really enjoyable to me, so I recommend you to read it

Though it's sad there isn't much more content of it
 
F/GO

And yeah, 07th seems to treat every work published as canonical to its "world", but the canonicity of Mei hasn't been formarly brought to the wiki in the form of a CRT afaik
 
ExcelsisBerny said:
Everything is canon. I don’t get why we’re making a special case with WTC when there are tons of gacha games out there treated the same way.
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This ^

I was under the impression Higurashi Mei was accepted here — but that's something that is so self-evident it can probably be covered in 1 prior thread to any changes, or within the same thread.
 
Higu Mei is completely canon, with maybe the crossovers with other franchises being semi-canon (like with Haruhi or Steins;Gate). But the main and side events are pretty much canon, as in-universe they are explicitly part of a separate Catbox from Eua's Catbox, which itself contains the original Higu Catbox.

Ngl, Mei could probably make the Human Domain into 1-A, but the fact it is mostly untranslated makes it harder to make an argument for it.
 
Not powerscaling-related, but Kotarou is absolutely hilarious. Very few MCs make me laugh as much with their nonsense… I love his dynamic with Yoshino, and in the final acts of Kotori’s route, Yoshino really proves to be an amazing friend.
 
Btw, anyone who says Ryukishi07’s ideas are limited only to Lucia’s route clearly never played Rewrite. Kotori’s route is packed with connections to 07th’s worldbuilding.
 
Small update: I finished rereading Kotori’s route and I’m currently more than halfway through Chihaya’s.

Really enjoying the story so far.
 
I want to rank the strongest Umineko characters
here
What do you think about this?

Note
1. Since most of abilities in Umineko isn't passive/auto hax so speed is the top priority
2. This list is only City of books characters (so this list excludes Creator/Writer/Higher great witch)
3. Not all characters in the list because I'm not sure where to put them (one of the reason why I'm here)

Adding: I forgot to put speed scaling chain along with the list above
  • Immeasurable baseline: Meta-characters without feat
  • Immeasurable above baseline 168 layer: Seven sisters (Leviathan)
  • Immeasurable above baseline 312 layers: Jessica
  • Immeasurable above baseline 157,680 layers: Kyrie
  • Immeasurable above baseline 157,681 layers: Chiester
  • Immeasurable above baseline 157,682 layers: Battler and most of characters in Ep5 tea party
  • Immeasurable above baseline 157,683 layers: Ep8 Erika (faster than Dlanor with afterimage)
  • Immeasurable above baseline 157,684 layers: Rosa who fodderized Erika
 
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Obviously I don't agree with the tier list. Taking into account only the versions up to the CoB, then the strongest is definitely Ange Beato, since the other characters directly derive from her.

Some of the placements are really strange.
 
ExcelsisBerny said:
Obviously I don't agree with the tier list. Taking into account only the versions up to the CoB, then the strongest is definitely Ange Beato, since the other characters directly derive from her.

Some of the placements are really strange.
Click to expand...
Got blitz by Ep8 Erika

As I said that most of abilities in Umineko isn't passive/auto hax so characters should gain a significant advantage just because they're faster (unless we have a good reason to superior over higher speed such as passive hax or whatever)
We have seen the importance of this through the fight between Kyrie VS Seven sisters or Erika VS Beato/Virgillia

Each of above baseline immeasurable from (my) speed scaling chain and each tier is quite 1:1

P.S. I also think that Ange is too high since she was only comparable to Ep8 Beato with Ep6 feat (the Chapel fight) before upscaled by Ep8 Erika
 
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