King_Dom470
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But either way i agree that the use of the ability is very unlikely
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"What's wrong? Lives flashing before you’re eyes?" (4-8-0)
- Thread starter King_Dom470
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King_Dom470
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Counted
koopa3144
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Frisk can fight through many deaths without losing the will to as seen though as average sans fight.
I mean risk never spared Shyren in the Genocide run and wouldn't hear her sing it and thus would be able to use the sing ACT.
King_Dom470
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Death is sadistic though. He will definitely resort to torture which is way worse than sans hoping frisk just gets frustrated and gives up.
Yeah thats what i was talking about but since i didn’t specify what version of frisk this is i guess its probably just frisk on a neutral run so they might have this ability
koopa3144
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I'm voting Frisk for a few reasons.
- They have an AP advantage (0.017 tons vs. >0.044 Tons) which they can amplify with Clear Mind and Flex.
- While Death's skill is impressive I think Frisk should take still overall. With no prior combat experience, they were able to overcome the likes of the Royal Guards, Undyne, Asgore, and even Asriel Dreemurr in his God of Hyperdeath form.
- Frisk can also quickly adapt to and dodge various bullet hell attacks from the likes of many different monsters the height of which being Sans and Asriel.
- Frisks LOAD's are a lot more reliable than Deaths type 8 immortality which we never see used. For all we know Death can take days or even years for death to come back to life.
- With their phone, Frisk can fly with their jetpack or use Yellow Mode to spam shots from a distance.
- Frisk has better stamina feats being able to withstanding hordes of attacks from numerous different monsters without any signs of tiring. Frisk can also stay conscious at less than hundred billionth of their health.
- CHECK will show Frisk Death's stats and emotional state which can help them strategize ways to end the battle.
- Frisk gets temp Invulnerability on hit which should help them minimize damage from attacks.
King_Dom470
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Fair but Death upscales from his feat so the ap difference probably isnt even that bad.
they didn't really overcome asriel they just social influenced them which wouldnt work on death
Fair
I mean he's death you can infer that he wouldn't "Die" for any amount of time he probably never dies at all
Theyve never used flight in a fight so it probably won't help. And death could teleport or use his illusion manip to confuse frisk so that they cant hit they shots no more.
Yeah fair
This probably won't help at all tbh
It's only for a couple seconds so im doubtful it'll help at all
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Death only appeared out of a personal vendetta for Puss so given he can just manifest on a whim it seems more likely he can't die at all
This is a Peak Frisk feat
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This should be a nonissue. Death only specifically went after Puss because he wanted to kill him for not valuing his lives, implying it's not the norm and he never goes out of his way to kill. So Death is just naturally skilled.
Also, considering Death is equal in skill to and is the first to tag Puss who had never been cut by a blade in combat despite it being his entire line of work and whose 'light work' is this, I don't see how Frisk is superior in that department just by fighting more opponents.
koopa3144
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Frisk also upscales being = Asgore who is >> Undyne > Mettaton/0.044 Tons.
Frisk still outlasted his Danmaku and eventually overcame him by instilling emotions within him.
Even if he can't die Frisk can still incap by knocking him out or severely injuring him.
I mean Frisk has shown great proficiency with Yellow Soul mode in Mettaton's fight where they quickly react to Mini Mettatons and cross bombs even as they reverse and come from behind them.
It would show that Death is slightly weaker than them and it might clue them in that Death won't fall for SI and incaping would be better.
Frisk is able to match trained guards with zero prior lighting experience. They can also match Asgore who has hundreds of years of combat experience They can also avoid Danmaku from Sans (Who can do this and this) and Asriel (Who can do this and this)
King_Dom470
He/Him- 3,424
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Yeah but this just straight up wont work on death
Given the massive skill disadvantage i feel like it's pretty unlikely frisk is gonna be able to hit him consistently enough to incap him. Especially with teleportation and illusions. (Also theres a chance death could just make it so Frisk cant see or hear him)
They never actually fought him there so they probably cant fight when flying. Even then death could use illusions to make it harder to dodge his attacks.
If anything this would probably give frisk a false sense of confidence similar to what happened with sans.
Imo those guards arent anywhere near as skilled as puss
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The problem is that we don't really know what that is beyond vagueness
Death's feats are at least tangible
koopa3144
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Frisk can deal with sans who spams TP and time-stop in the latter half of his fight and iirc Death never uses TP when in direct combat in the movie. Also even if you don't give Frisk the overall skill advantage, their dodging ability should be more than enough to avoid Death's blows.
I don't think his Illusions will work very well in the judgment hall due to the lack of reflective surfaces that he can project into.
King_Dom470
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Timestop is barely a problem since he only uses them to set up attacks and sans doesn’t use his tp that much in a fight so frisk might be somewhat familiar with it but not so much where its like second nature to deal with.
Those quarts pillars are probably pretty shiny. Also he uses illusions on non reflective surfaces. Even if he can't he can always make himself invisible and attack from there.
koopa3144
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I'm pretty sure those are just hallucinations from Puss' Panic Attack and I don't think Death would go invisible mid-battle in character.
King_Dom470
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Pretty damn detailed hallucinations. But maybe.
He might if he starts losing.
But i would also like to point out that in character death likes to freak you out first so he'd probably **** with frisk at first and then later would actually go all out so even if frisk survives awhile he's gonna do what sans pretended to do and just demolish them.
Ayewale
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What? We're discussing which characters would lose the will to fight first, one has supernatural willpower, the other one doesn't. Frisk has vastly better stamina feats. There's literally no answer to who gives up first other than Death. Frisk literally doesn't have a power beyond Determination. The idea that Frisk would give up first is objectively wrong.
If anything, Frisk's SI + them valuing life far more than the average would make the process incredibly quick. Death only hunted Puss in Boots because he didn't value life, and gave up the moment he did. Frisk quite frankly values life by an unbelievable amount.
I vote for Frisk.
Ayewale
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Additionally, referring back to the PiB wiki, Death literally gives up the moment Puss (a) appreciates the value of life and (b) starts fighting back. He says it himself that he was hunting Puss because he saw an 'an arrogant little legend who thought he was immortal' but doesn't see it in him anymore. He wasn't motivated simply by Puss having multiple lives, it was his personality that was driving him, and once that changed, Death instantly ****** off.
He'd give up hilariously quickly, Death wouldn't even be the most determined character Frisk has SI'd.
He'd give up hilariously quickly, Death wouldn't even be the most determined character Frisk has SI'd.
King_Dom470
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Based on deaths personality and reason for hunting frisk no he wouldn’t give up first. Especially when you consider that only Frisk would remember them resetting as far as death is concerned he only killed Frisk once
We already discussed why Social Influencing wont work on death
Same thing here we already discussed why this wouldn’t work on death
Ayewale
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He gave up literally the moment Puss started fighting back and said verbatim that he only hunted him because of his personality. Frisk isn't arrogant and they value life immensely. He wouldn't give a shit.
Frankly I am not convinced, Death was only ever shown acting due to Puss's arrogance and there's no corollary for that here.
I'm not describing something that "wouldn't work", I'm recapping the objective plot of the movie. Death gives up when he doesn't see an arrogant personality in Puss in Boots. He doesn't see that in Frisk, so he would give up. There's no proof that he'd be so fixated on attacking Frisk that'd he suddenly develop enough will to counter Frisk's supernatural willpower (again, Frisk's will is a superpower and Death's is not, he'd give up quicker by default), especially since he never, ever attacked Puss in Boots until he was at most arrogant with one life remaining.
King_Dom470
He/Him- 3,424
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"Value life immensely" Yeah hell nah idk what we deem as canon or not but a Genocide run is literally Frisk getting bored and trying something new.
Death himself also says he hates that Puss has multiple lives. Death would ******* abhor Frisk
Torture, Deaths hatred of people with immortality and the fact that Death kinda would only be going after Frisk for the soul purpose of permanently killing them, he would 100% keep trying until Frisk dies. Also Death wouldn’t be able to remember Frisks deaths so him getting bored wouldn’t be as easy because HE would have to die multiple times for that to happen which is unlikely given the massive difference in skill
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No. He gave up when Puss started valuing his last life, which, to Death, took the fun out of killing him
See that goes against SBA. If not for that, Death wouldn't give a shit
Serlock_Holmes
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Death Fra.
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Frisk FRA.
Honestly the argument that Frisk would just give up is pretty laughable.
Honestly the argument that Frisk would just give up is pretty laughable.
Da3ggman
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For starters, Death is weaker than Frisk here (Frisk greatly upscales from 187.28 MJ and Death performed casually a 74.745 MJ feat, aka there's a x2.51 gap here).
Plus, Frisk can just... dodge whatever Death has, as he used just melee weapons, which is nothing new for Frisk due to them already having faced Asgore and Undyne, who, while less skilled than Death in pure h2h, they combine their combat skills with danmaku, and consistently dodging these seems to be more impressive than what Death does tbh.
Besides, Death just wouldn't give a shit about Frisk does unlike with Puss, as they're a whole different thing than Puss who just respawns in the present, they literally use pseudo-time travel to respawn, Death isn't shown to remember stuff happened through time resets, so why do y'all assume he would be aware of what DT is? Frisk would just adapt to Death's stuff, which is even easy given that Death has less than half of their strength.
Plus every vote about "they make the other give up" is invalid.
Victory Conditions: Death of the opponent, removing the opponent from the battlefield for at least one week (BFR), knocking the opponent out for at least one hour, or incapacitating the opponent by putting him in a state in which he can not harm the other fighter(s) for over a day, are to be assumed as victory conditions.
Incapacitation is the inability to harm the other by force, and I mean through hax such as paralysis, sealing and so on. Here is simply Death giving up by his own because of him being constantly countered from a child who is not only more than twice stronger than him, but that constantly counters every move of his.
So the real vote here would be inconclusive, as Death has 0 ways to get past LOADing and Frisk cannot kill Death due to AE 2.
Plus, Frisk can just... dodge whatever Death has, as he used just melee weapons, which is nothing new for Frisk due to them already having faced Asgore and Undyne, who, while less skilled than Death in pure h2h, they combine their combat skills with danmaku, and consistently dodging these seems to be more impressive than what Death does tbh.
Besides, Death just wouldn't give a shit about Frisk does unlike with Puss, as they're a whole different thing than Puss who just respawns in the present, they literally use pseudo-time travel to respawn, Death isn't shown to remember stuff happened through time resets, so why do y'all assume he would be aware of what DT is? Frisk would just adapt to Death's stuff, which is even easy given that Death has less than half of their strength.
Plus every vote about "they make the other give up" is invalid.
Victory Conditions: Death of the opponent, removing the opponent from the battlefield for at least one week (BFR), knocking the opponent out for at least one hour, or incapacitating the opponent by putting him in a state in which he can not harm the other fighter(s) for over a day, are to be assumed as victory conditions.
Incapacitation is the inability to harm the other by force, and I mean through hax such as paralysis, sealing and so on. Here is simply Death giving up by his own because of him being constantly countered from a child who is not only more than twice stronger than him, but that constantly counters every move of his.
So the real vote here would be inconclusive, as Death has 0 ways to get past LOADing and Frisk cannot kill Death due to AE 2.
Because they were possessed from Chara, heck Chara has literally a key for that thing in their profile.
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Serlock_Holmes
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Could Death just go invisible and just cut off his arms and legs?
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That ain't happening.
Plus Frisk can just decide to LOAD back the SAVE file in case something goes south.
Serlock_Holmes
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Damn though it only activated on his death. Then yeah It's incon.
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Ok, lets try to crack this case, shall we?
So first of all, lets get into stats. Since speed is equalized, AP and durability are the only ones we need to look at.
Death = 0.017 tons of TnT
Frisk = 0.044 tons of TnT, higher with Stat amps (can amp both AP and Durability)
So for stats, its pretty clear that Frisk holds the advantage, being 2.58x stronger than Death. Frisk can also amp themselves to an unknown degree, so there's that as well.
Of course, none of this truly matters since both characters are immortal, though by different means. With Frisk being able to ressurect and Death being the abstract personality of ... well...death, would either of them be able to kill eachother?
Well, yes actually. Frisk can kill Death, and possibly Death can kill Frisk. Here are the reasonings:
Well I vote Frisk to be honest:
So first of all, lets get into stats. Since speed is equalized, AP and durability are the only ones we need to look at.
Death = 0.017 tons of TnT
Frisk = 0.044 tons of TnT, higher with Stat amps (can amp both AP and Durability)
So for stats, its pretty clear that Frisk holds the advantage, being 2.58x stronger than Death. Frisk can also amp themselves to an unknown degree, so there's that as well.
Of course, none of this truly matters since both characters are immortal, though by different means. With Frisk being able to ressurect and Death being the abstract personality of ... well...death, would either of them be able to kill eachother?
Well, yes actually. Frisk can kill Death, and possibly Death can kill Frisk. Here are the reasonings:
- In Regards to Frisk being able to kill death, while Death may have type 8 Immortality, its technically unknown what type of benefit this infers. Him being that abstract incarnation of death implies he can't be killed permanently, but this gives no indication it makes him immune to harm, or that he can't be killed temporarily. While Puss states himself that he can't defeat Death, his final battle with him shows that the wolf can be hurt, so it stands to reason that Frisk can still kill Death, even if its only temporarily.
- In Regards to Death being able to kill Frisk, this is bit of a less concrete case to be made, but it should be noted that Frisk's primary immortality (that being type 4 through SAVING) relies entirely on his Determination, which for all intents and purposes is essentially willpower (albiet supernatural). Given Death's possible superior combat skill (at least relative to Frisk) Death could likely kill Frisk enough times that the latter gives up. Alternatively, given Death's affinity for stalking and indimidating his targets, he could also use these tactics to terrify or freak out Frisk, which could result in Frisk's Determination being compromised, allowing Death to go for the finishing blow. However, this is a much less concrete idea for a win as Determination in Undertale is as much of a physical concept as it is someone believing in themselves, so it could be argued Death would be unable to affect Frisk's Determination in any meaningful way.
Well I vote Frisk to be honest:
- Frisk is just simply stronger than Death by a significant margin, so it would be less likely for Death to be able to kill Frisk than Frisk being able to kill Death.
- Determination is more than just supernatural willpower, and Frisk's entire soul concists of Determination, so even if Death could kill Frisk more than the other way around, Frisk would be less likely to give up in the situation.
- Frisk's Social Influencing has allowed him to make friends of various enemies, even people like Undyne. This wouldn't normally come up in an actual battle, but in a scenario where neither character is really killable, Frisk's SI means that he would be able to talk Death out of fighting before either character would likely kill eachother. It also doesn't hurt that Frisk is stronger, so Frisk would be in a position to talk down Death rather than just pleaing with him to stop.
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Well, if Type 2 AE indeed needs feats for the timeframe of the respawn, then I'll swicth to Frisk FRA.
Tho using Chara is better smh.
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Frisk FRA
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Death only gave up because Puss learned to value his own life and stopped chasing more lives. Thid doesn't apply to Frisk who death knows can reset and revive himself infinitely, quite literally cheating Death. Safe to say given what we saw that he'll be extremely pissed
XSOULOFCINDERX
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Frisk FRA. Also that's such a good title but its ruined by the wrong usage of you're rather than your.
Gilad_Hyperstar
He/Him- 11,384
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So, if Death can't stop Frisk from reviving and wouldn't know he can do that, what's his wincons? Since he can't permanently get rid of him
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I deleted the og message because I did not read this part.
But regardless... He still cannot stop Frisk from reviving, that's true.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Forgot that, ignore my last message then
Well Death will never stop trying to kill Frisk since he knows about his reset. If there's one thing that Death hates is those who cheats him, and Frisks' resets are far worse than anything Puss in Boots did
So, Frisk and Death will just keep fighting, and even if Death kills him, Frisk resets, if anyone argues Death can't do that because AP gap, then it's a stomp for Frisk as Death can only kill him really
King_Dom470
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Pretty sure I've counted all the votes now.