What tiers do you personally oppose?

[Hasty12345]

Yes, it takes more energy to destroy infinite matter + infinite space times than just infinite matter. I fail to see what part of this flies over your head.

How about the part you're assuming infinities work the same way finite numbers do and you're just doing linear operations on infinities to argue the notion of "more" between the two feats.

If you truly disagree with the tiering system, go make your own revision for it.

tiering systems can be arbitrary though, it doesn't have to be 100% mathematically accurate it just has to serve a purpose, and I think the tiering system as is functions just fine tbh

Edit: Anyways, it's clear you don't want to continue this conversation, so it's cool.

 

[Tarang123]

How about the part you're assuming infinities work the same way finite numbers do and you're just doing linear operations on infinities to argue the notion of "more" between the two feats.

I'm not doing that shit with infinities, just with logic. It should logically take more energy to destroy something that contains an infinite amount of matter instead of just destroying the infinite matter by itself. And besides, if you disagree with higher infinities, go take it up with mathematicians cause there are higher infinities. Whether or not they apply to cosmologies or whatever is something totally different

 

[Tarang123]

Edit: Anyways, it's clear you don't want to continue this conversation, so it's cool.

Probably should've read this comment before replying to you

 

[Tarang123]

I disagree with the current scaling we have for DBS, especially seeing as it makes no logical sense tbh

 

[Urshani]

I disagree with the current scaling we have for DBS, especially seeing as it makes no logical sense tbh

Yes, DBS should be Boundless easily.

 

[Tarang123]

Yes, DBS should be Boundless easily.

I meant the Tier 3 to Tier 2 stuff that we currently have, you yourself talked about it.

 

[Urshani]

I meant the Tier 3 to Tier 2 stuff that we currently have, you yourself talked about it.

Yeah, I know, I was making a joke back there.

 

[Tarang123]

Yeah, I know, I was making a joke back there.

I wasn't, so...

 

[Sus]

Someone here clearly doesn't understand the tiering system

 

[Tarang123]

Someone here clearly doesn't understand the tiering system

wdym?

 

[Darksmash]

This is exactly what we do, we stopped using dimensional tiering a while back. We use higher infinites.

Pseudo higher infinities*

 

[Sus]

Just nuke the tiering system

 

[Delta333]

Just nuke the tiering system

Best day if it happens

 

[Hmesko]

@Meganova_Stella OH? I believe you. I just wasn't aware dimensional tiering was dropped since I still see so many people use it.
@Hasty12345 @Darksmash I know what you mean and agree 100%. I honestly think set theory can be used to quantify the size of a verse's cosmology. But it seems to trip a lot of people up here. I've thought about making a blog. Just a short primer about the difference between countable and uncountable. To try and clear up some of the confusion. But using set theory has it's own draw backs too. Most verses don't tell us enough to get a picture of the size of the cosmology. At least not well enough to apply set theory fully. I usually just make the assumption that it is countable unless it is stated otherwise. Like scp.

 

[Bababo]

Tw:bad grammar


Ok so
I have a problem with gohan's super sayan 2 key

I think gohan should not be solar system level with only ssj2

Last time i checked, cell was going to destroy the solar system with a full power kamehameha, and gohan scales to this feat

BUT i dont see why this would give him Solar System Class striking strength

after all, gohan used all his power to overpower cell's kamehameha.Gohans punch should not be comparable to a full powered kamehameha



that is all.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Tw:bad grammar


Ok so
I have a problem with gohan's super sayan 2 key

I think gohan should not be solar system level with only ssj2

Last time i checked, cell was going to destroy the solar system with a full power kamehameha, and gohan scales to this feat

BUT i dont see why this would give him Solar System Class striking strength

after all, gohan used all his power to overpower cell's kamehameha.Gohans punch should not be comparable to a full powered kamehameha



that is all.

Tw:bad grammar


Ok so
I have a problem with gohan's super sayan 2 key

I think gohan should not be solar system level with only ssj2

Last time i checked, cell was going to destroy the solar system with a full power kamehameha, and gohan scales to this feat

BUT i dont see why this would give him Solar System Class striking strength

after all, gohan used all his power to overpower cell's kamehameha.Gohans punch should not be comparable to a full powered kamehameha



that is all.

I think cell said that his ki is strong enough to bust the solar system. So his attack potency should scale to that regardless.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Gohans punch should not be comparable to a full powered kamehameha

ki

 

[theultimate5105]

ki

That would mean a tiny fractions of Gohans Ki was equal to all of it which doesn't make sense

 

[Bababo]

Ki

But gohan used his all his power to make that kamehameha, ye i know the ki blast potency=striking strenght rule in DB but in this case gohan used all of his power.
I just dont see how a punch=a full powered kamehameha

 

[Teezar]

I disagree with 4B superman at peak

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

I disagree with 4B mori at peak

 

[Bababo]

I think cell said that his ki is strong enough to bust the solar system. So his attack potency should scale to that regardless.

Im talking about striking strength tho

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Im talking about striking strength tho

His ki is strong enough means his regular output scales to the feat, not the kamehameha.

 

[Hmesko]

@Hasty12345 After reading your post again. I think you see so many here treating uncountable sets as numbers because they DO think uncountable is just a term for an arbitrary large number. So that's why you see so many people think standard linear or even non linear operations make the "uncountable" bigger. They are treating it just as a large number.

 

[RethPo]

I think applying math to higher dimensions that we cant even comprehend to begin with is stupid. If a character can destroy concepts, multiverses or whatever on that dimensional level like 4D time etc, they should be tier 2 or 1. Unless those dimensions just explicitely dont function like that or something or its just them being on that dimension with nothing else to it.

 

[Darksmash]

I think applying math to higher dimensions that we cant even comprehend to begin with is stupid.

Guess set theorists are stupid then. Also you can't really say they are beyond comprehension and then use them in a Tiering system which would explicitly require understanding of their functioning.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

after all, gohan used all his power to overpower cell's kamehameha.Gohans punch should not be comparable to a full powered kamehameha

I am awake, so I can provide an actual answer to this.

1. Firstly, Ki increases all stats equally -- strength, speed, defense, flight, destructive power, and so on. The strength of his Kamehameha and the strength of his punches are equally impressive, as both are determined by the size of his ki.
2. Secondly, Gohan defeated Cell with a broken arm and less than half of his full power available. Even while subconsciously holding back, he was still capable of warding off Cell's blast and holding him at a standstill. Once Goku motivated him to let go, and after Vegeta gave him an opening, Gohan instantly annihilated Cell.

 

[Antoniofer]

Guess set theorists are stupid then.

Nonsense remains nonsense, even when talked by world-famous scientists.

 

[RethPo]

Guess set theorists are stupid then. Also you can't really say they are beyond comprehension and then use them in a Tiering system which would explicitly require understanding of their functioning.

It doesnt at all. Tier 1 we dont even know anything about outside of theories or if it even exists. We hardly know anything about the 4th dimension outside of "time" and "its there" and some 3D representitives of what might go on there. The only time it even makes sense is with linear time like speed = distance/time etc which deals with just time we experience. Its nothing like trying to get some number on what it takes to actually destroy or do anything to the concept

Okay so heres the main issue with applying math and trying to act like we know how much it takes to destroy something like time.

So you know how you have your 5 senses, touch, taste etc right?
And when you go into a higher dimension or try looking at something higher dimensional you either dont percieve it or see some 3D portion of it. In other words you have no capacity to see whats going on and would need an entirely new sense to percieve it.
Getting to the point, this is where the issue is with trying to apply 3D created logic (math) to 4D logic or above.
Your physical brain is incapable of percieving the true 4th dimension in any capacity, since it needs and has a whole new sense to even percieve it let alone make any concrete assumptions that actually apply to it. Thinks for you just dont work like it does for them. Our 3D earth logic has no reason to in any way apply to dimensions entirely above our own actual understanding. Even without that... why the hell would it? Were literally dealing with dimensions that would transcend universes and multiverses that likely each run on entirely different logic and subsequently math from us.

Even if that is wrong anyway. Trying to put a direct value using theorised infinity jumps to act like we know how much it takes to destroy something like time when we barely "know" about the existence of 4D is just ridiculous.

 

[Tarang123]

That really doesn’t matter. Until they’re truly proven wrong, set theory is still applicable. We don’t understand how actual dimensions function, but we can theorize based on these theories. We do the same with 3D phenomena, not sure why that would somehow change

 

[RethPo]

Well theres nothing wrong in that. Point is that trying to apply numbers directly to something that should by all means be beyond it just sounds dumb to me. Or at least i wouldnt give them a higherD rating based on having N1 or infinity^infinity power or something with that alone.

Although for the record being inifinitely above 2-C should totally be 2-A

Also... is this convo derailing 0_0?

 

[Braking]

tier 1 jojo

i just feel like it does not fit in that spot

 

[Nullflowerblush]

2-C Sachiko Shinozaki.
i also hate how this page is practically a rip of this one

 

[Hmesko]

@RethPo That set theory itself is nonsense I cannot agree with. Thomas Jech is someone I very much look up to. But maybe what you are seeing that you think is silly is something I myself have seen. People here's misunderstanding of set theory. As someone here already brought up. Set theory only applies to the amount of things. Such as the number of universes in a multiverse. Or the number of multiverses in a universe. What it cannot be applied to however. Is to justify character's being "beyond infinitely powerful." A character is either infinitely powerful or they aren't. Changing the setting doesn't change this. A quick example. Character a is infinitely powerful. Character a exists in a setting with a multiverse with k universes. Where k is an uncountable set. Character a is in a thread in a setting with a multiverse with l multiverse. Where l is an uncountable set. and l > k. Character a is still infinitely powerful in this setting. This does not change this.

 

[Urshani]

@RethPo That set theory itself is nonsense I cannot agree with. Thomas Jech is someone I very much look up to. But maybe what you are seeing that you think is silly is something I myself have seen. People here's misunderstanding of set theory. As someone here already brought up. Set theory only applies to the amount of things. Such as the number of universes in a multiverse. Or the number of multiverses in a universe. What it cannot be applied to however. Is to justify character's being "beyond infinitely powerful." A character is either infinitely powerful or they aren't. Changing the setting doesn't change this. A quick example. Character a is infinitely powerful. Character a exists in a setting with a multiverse with k universes. Where k is an uncountable set. Character a is in a thread in a setting with a multiverse with l multiverse. Where l is an uncountable set. and l > k. Character a is still infinitely powerful in this setting. This does not change this.

char a is stomped by char b

 

[Sus]

Nonsense remains nonsense, even when talked by world-famous scientists.

Dude.....

Y'all never read about set theory outside of vs battles, did y'all?

 

[Sus]

Although for the record being inifinitely above 2-C should totally be 2-A

It's literally explained why it is not

 

[Tarang123]

It's literally explained why it is not

Wait, why was it not? I might have missed it, could you point out where it's said on the tiering system? Technically, I can get why it's not enough, seeing as being infinitely more powerful than another 3D character isn't High 3A, so...

 

[QuasiYuri]

It's literally explained why it is not

Our current tier 2 standards suck tho
Even 3-A feats give you 2-B

 

[Tarang123]

Our current tier 2 standards suck tho
Even 3-A feats give you 2-B

Wdym? Can you further elaborate?