We need to talk about Sans's speed

[WarriorWare]

I feel like Sans's page was made mostly with wishful thinking, especially his speed. When we - when you guys - concluded that Sans is faster than Beerus, I felt like something was up. Sans's page states that Sans is FTL by scaling to Frisk who can dodge...Sans's lasers.

Really?

There are so many things wrong with this. Dodging a Gasterblaster attack is no different from dodging a Kamehameha. You see it coming, albeit briefly. And let's not forget the many properties of real lasers that the Gasterblasters very blatantly don't have. By this logic, any player who has beaten Sans is also FTL because they reacted to his attacks. They're telegraphed, if only for a moment, and even then, the page even makes the assumption that Sans canonically beats Frisk at least once, and that memorizing his patterns after dying several times is the only way Frisk can hope to avoid Sans's attacks and defeat him.

If Frisk has better speed feats, then use those. Not "they dodged a laser lol."

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

-- It was never concluded that Sans is faster than Beerus. Just that he can teleport and has time manipulation. Before anyone even tries to go the route of "Sans' can't actually teleport" or "Sans' time manipulation sucks and doesn't help battles", not only does he teleport right in front of you during the Snowdin portion of a genocide run, but his time manipulation, while not nearly as potent as someone like Frisk's, has more battle applications, as he uses it on Frisk in battle while they can't do jack about it. We're talking about someone who can reset the universe to a point before they died even AFTER they've been killed, here.

-- What properties of real lasers do Gasterblasters ignore? I remember them very clearly only firing in straight lines and never having the ability to curve..

-- Discounting a feat because the player is involved is faulty. We do not assume "Kirby can't get credit for killing Marx because that would make the player a planet buster". Especially considering in a game like Undertale, you, the player, are indeed a "character" and treated as being sort of godlike.

-- There is no "set canon" for a genocide run. The canon entirely depends on how the player fights and chooses how the path goes. Especially since, if Sans kills the player, he references killing them. It's not treated as "lol never happened", but instead as him legitimately beating you but you simply reloading. LOADs and SAVEs are legit powers referenced in-game, not just something that can be dismissed as game mechanics.

-- Frisk's best "speed" feats are technically fighting beings of immeasurable speed. I don't want to use that to scale to Sans for obvious reasons.

 

[WarriorWare]

Isn't a defining characteristic of lasers the fact that you can't see them from above, or anywhere else besides right where they're pointing?

You also seem to have misinterpreted my point about the player being FTL by the logic used to justify Frisk being so. The reason why the player doesn't need to be that fast is that the attack is telegraphed. It's not unlike "dodging" a cannon ball by getting out of the cannon's way before it fires.

I forgot what my point was concerning treating losing to Sans as a canonical event lol.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Yes, but I'm fairly certain that's the only laser law which they break, which can likely be taken as an inconsistency, as otherwise the confirmed lasers in the core are not actually lasers. It is likely done simply so the player can see them (having to account for invisible lasers would probably be a bit too much of a pain in the ass).

It's telegraphed yes, but it's still dodging multiple lasers mid-combat in a confined space.

lol It's all good. Undertale enjoys playing around with "canon".

 

[FTW395]

Bump. Since when do people take dodging lasers as a thing to measure someone's speed? Because if that's allowed Kid Goku in dragonball is FTL and we don't want that right?