- 31,372
- 34,119
Yeah, I think DRB hammered the nail in the thread here, the Universe was formed via the same negative energy he got and only got stronger throughout the whole game given Wario's Greed.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
I’d say that’s a fair conclusionSo unanimous decision to pull down the durability "feat" but it seems that Black Jewel stays at it's current tier regardless.
Meaning,In order to apply to a character's capacity to harm other characters, that is their usual Attack Potency, their Creation has to be connected to their other abilities. For example, it can be reasoned that a mage which expends mana from its energy pool to make a city and then channels a similar or greater amount of mana into another attack can scale to its creation feat.
Not necessarily. Universe creation is always instantaneous if it is to be treated as 3-A/Low 2-C. It being done in an instant doesn't mean it is casual, especially when the character could be using their max power for creation, but not for other attacks (which looks to be the case here).create the parallel universe and does so instantly; meaning it's a casual feat
I think we agreed to not assume he got stronger or weaker when there is no indication of it. The only thing we know is that he was chock-full of power in the very start of the game, due to Wario's greed. Since then, there seems to be no mention of him gaining energy from other people.And his lasers are done when he's stronger than he's ever been
Yes, but it would still be reality warping. And no, I am not claiming that he drained all of his power.And he also warps the same dimension many times throughout the series. Also, he didn't drain all his power when he created the parallel universe, meaning he'd still have more than enough.
I'll wait for Dino to provide evidence on this first, and come back to this later if said evidence is provided.Actually, I recall Dino also stating that Wario's greed kept fueling him
This is not something he is shown to be doing though. The reality warping done at the start was visibly shown expending more energy than the eye laser that hardly takes any effort to shoot. So he is either not doing that for some reason, or isn't capable of. Fiction doesn't follow logic most of the time, so we have to go with what's actually happening, instead of what logically should have happened.and logically the attacks he would use to destroy his biggest enemy would be the stuff he puts more effort into
I missed this earlier so I'll address this. Later when he warps the world, he isn't shown that he is destroying the entirety of the realm, as opposed to the first time when he is shown to create the entirety of it. In the video you linked, he only changes the color of the sky and destroys the nearby structures with his warping. That's not the reality warping equivalent of creating an entire universe.This red sparkles stuff is purely headcanon as nothing indicates they're the source or indicator of it's power, as I've shown by Black Jewel warping the realm without those sparkles being present before you fight him, and the fact Wario gets thrown back shows it had physical force too.
Also, this caught my eye just now. Can you get into more detail regarding what you mean by "universe" being used loosely. It's a European website, so I am not sure how authentic the information is. But if it is simply a dimension as opposed to an observable universe, then it should be rated by what we can see in it. I can at least see stars and sun, I think.Also, Universe is often very loosely yeah, but a Parallel "Dimension" would imply it's a body of space; not an Observable Universe in a quilted multiverse.
Almost impossible to argue against this. The sky is literally shown to be a firmament type of thing and not the vastness of space. Unless there is some extremely specific quote/feat of them traveling to a star in the distance or something, this isn't a universal or even a 4-A creation.Another bigger issue is that the warped world created by Black Jewel is not a real world, as it doesn't quite follow the standards of creation.
This sky has night and day at the same time, evidencing that this sky is not real, and just a cool background. Which puts a question mark on the entire feat. When the sky, stars, sun, etc. are not real, we can't assume it is an entire real life-like universe.
The website is still available, here is the link: https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Games/Nintendo-GameCube/Wario-World-269336.htmlinformation present in that European website (which I think doesn't even exist anymore to fact check it)
There isn't supposed to be a reason to imply they are fake. There is supposed to be a reason to imply they are real. The reason that implies they are real doesn't exist. And no, even in twilight the sky doesn't look like half night sky and half day sky and both sun and stars are not present together like that. So this is good reason to dismiss it. Now for your claim to hold ground, we need to prove that they're all real in spite of being all weird magical heavenly bodies in a bizarre sky background.The first obvious requirement is that it must be certain that an actual creation feat took place. If, for example, stars appear to have been created it must be certain that those aren't just minor light sources looking similar.
Nothing implies they're real, either. Like AKM said, this can easily just be an oddball sky that was created by the Black Jewel. There's no confirmation that those are even real stars if the validity of the sky itself is thrown into question.First of all, nothing is implied the world is fake nor the celestial bodies are. Using the sky isn't valid as the reason it was like that to begin with is because either it's twilight or, more likely, due to the Black Jewel warped Wario's World, giving it abnormal properties hence why both sources described it to be "strange" and "bizarre", not fake.
As said above, the universe part comes from a technically incorrect statement from a Europen website, and since it isn't mentioned anywhere else, we can dismiss it. Game and manual take precedence here.The Black Jewel just warped Wario's World into a bizarre universe.
You are admitting that the warped world is bizarre (even if it is a universe as you claim, it is a bizarre one, not an actual one), yet you are saying the stars and everything that is bizarre is real too. That's a contradiction. If it's bizarre, we have all the more reason to assume they are not real, hence bizarre.The "oddball" sky was simply meant to reflect that
Where the feat takes place is still information about the feat, and if that statement is incorrect, we have no reason to assume that statement is correct for the other thing, especially when nothing of the sort is mentioned anywhere else. This is a clear cut case where we dismiss these secondary material, and Mario is not going to be an exception here.The incorrect statement is centered around where the feat is taken place, not the feat itself
That only means the background changes. That doesn't at all refute that we see the night sky and day sky on the screen split in half which is more than enough visual evidence to conclude that it's not real. Especially when nothing points to it being real. This is again, according to the creation feats rule, easily dismissed. Very similar case like King Boo's dimension in the previous thread.there are proper night and day cycles, which goes against this very argument
"Worlds" in Mario games can be smaller than a kingdom to bigger than a cluster of galaxies, being called worlds provides no evidence as to their size.If you really wanna be slick the Japanese names for the levels call them "worlds" and you enter them the same say you entered the World Black Jewel created, showing they are their own worlds far grander than the map makes it appear and may be separate.
The sentence in the European website from where the "parallel universe" statement comes from, is technically false. It only mentions that the basement was warped into another universe, while in the game and manual, we see that the entire castle was warped and destroyed. We also see no mention of anything claiming "universe" in neither the game nor the manual, both of which take precedence over a questionable statement from a European website. According to the standards, we dismiss said statement.When different source materials give different versions of the same feat, and by that they contradict each other in the depiction of the feat, the primary canon takes precedence over the secondary canon.
There exists zero proof in the game that any celestial body we see is an actual celestial body. No we don't expect realism, and that is exactly why we do expect some kind of proof. To say that "they are real celestial bodies but Black Jewel warped them in such a way that they look unreal" is a much bigger assumption and requires a hell lot more evidence than "it could be possible". Claiming that something is real in something unreal doesn't work.The first obvious requirement is that it must be certain that an actual creation feat took place. If, for example, stars appear to have been created it must be certain that those aren't just minor light sources looking similar.