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Warhammer Cosmology revisions (Part 2) Chaos God Revisions (1-A, possibly High 1-A)

Blackcurrant91

Blackcurrant91

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So here I am over a year later with revised Chaos God profiles.

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Blackcurrant91/sandboxkhorne

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Blackcurrant91/sandboxslaanesh

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Blackcurrant91/sandboxnurgle

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Blackcurrant91/sandboxtzeentch

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There is also a blog that goes with them, providing more explanation/detail about why the Warp possibly has infinite 1-A layers that transcend each other and why their abstract state should transcend this.

I was hoping for opinions on if their abstract state should be straight up High 1-A or 'At least 1-A, possibly High 1-A as it is currently.

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The Grand Warhammer Cosmology.

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(Blog is extremely long and goes into Fantasy/Age of Sigmar stuff this CRT isn't really touching but the 40k section would be what I am referring too here)
 
L + Ratio + Cope + No Bitches + Mald + Touch grass + Ur mom gay + Goku solos + Saitama surpasses + Garou adapts + Luffy kenbuns + Something else I can't come up with.

Warhammer is 0-D because it's fiction and the entire wiki should be deleted before it's to late.
 
There isn't really much for me to discuss besides what we've been discussing in the servers for quite some time, so I'll agree on this
 
In all seriousness, though, disregarding my idiotic back-alley tweaker rant, I agree with these revisions given I've read through everything but the cosmology blog through(it is extremely lengthy) and see no problems.
 
As for High 1-A, I'm not sure but it might be worth just playing safe and keeping it as is, though why the Abstract forms in particular and not the Great Beast?
 
The Warp has been described as having no dimension numerous times. Stop overplaying it. Shame on you

Everything seems fine to me about the profiles and the blog but I’m not the best with tier 1 stuff so take me accepting the blog with a grain of salt
 
Looks fine. The Great beast should just be another profile than each having a key. Disagree with 5B-4B key it seems redundant to have.
 
I agree with Setsuna regarding the Great Beast, though IIRC it's pretty ambigious if it's a singular entity or all of the Chaos Gods combined.
also ALSO high 1-A chaos gods pog
 
Should kind of go without saying but obviously I agree with this as we've been discussing this for months on end in the server.
 
Setsuna_tenma said:
Looks fine. The Great beast should just be another profile than each having a key. Disagree with 5B-4B key it seems redundant to have.
Click to expand...
While I don't care whether or not 4-B gets removed (it would just become straight up "up to low 2-c" which makes somewhat more sense based on the descriptions), 5-B has actual feats which put it up there from the chaos gods themselves so it should be a low end for their realspace avatars
 
Setsuna_tenma said:
Looks fine. The Great beast should just be another profile than each having a key. Disagree with 5B-4B key it seems redundant to have.
Click to expand...
The Low 2-C key is somewhat ambiguous. The 5-B key is like an actual showing/feat of the chaos gods where the 4-B/Low2-C keys are just from scaling to Daemons.

Also it should be noted that the Chaos Gods have appeared as Avatars in the Eye of Terror.
 
Of course, I have little knowledge about the verse, so I am going solely based on what is given and the context. So if I misinterpret something, point that out.

Let’s take this bit by bit
My first question is this?

"The Central conceit is that our visible, four-dimensional universe is restricted to a Brane, that is, a Membrane, inside a higher dimensional space", He begins and I already feel any hope of comprehension fall away "A theoretically infinite number of dimensions of potentially infinite scale occupy other branes, which, in effect, means there can be an endless series of Alternate Realities"
Click to expand...
This is a 2-A structure
"Here?’ cried Semyon, throwing his arms wide and spinning around like a lunatic. ‘You have such a limited understanding of the material world, girl. Words like here and there have no meaning. The myriad dimensions of this material universe cannot be defined by so limited a thing as human language!" - Mechanicum

"The warrior in orange and black armor shouted. The automaton stepped forwards, piston driven limbs shaking the deck. The cannon on its shoulder swiveled. The prisoner could feel the dark energy dancing in the weapon. It knew its shape and taste, old and familiar from wars that had scarred the stars when they were young. The gun weapon drew breath to fire. The prisoner’s senses traced the distances between every point in the room and sliced time down until only the decay of atoms marked its passing. The short distance from it to the automaton’s gun, from the automaton to its masters, from those masters to the door. Every measured value became like crystal, every facet and plane extending through countless dimensions." -Ahriman: Key to Infinity
Click to expand...
Nothing here says they were referring to higher dimensions 🤔 it may as well be pointing to the 2-A structure above
 
Pain_to12 said:
Of course, I have little knowledge about the verse, so I am going solely based on what is given and the context. So if I misinterpret something, point that out.

Let’s take this bit by bit
My first question is this?


This is a 2-A structure

Nothing here says they were referring to higher dimensions 🤔 it may as well be pointing to the 2-A structure above
Click to expand...
Well Blackcurrant probably won’t be on for another few hours so we’ll have to wait on that for a better reply.

In the meantime though, I thought branes were considered to be tier 1?
 
AbaddonTheDisappointment said:
Well Blackcurrant probably won’t be on for another few hours so we’ll have to wait on that for a better reply.

In the meantime though, I thought branes were considered to be tier 1?
Click to expand...
Yes they are, if there is an explicit proof, but the explanation here is a possibility so yeah it will be likely 2-A possibly low 1-C.
 
So, reading through the blog:

The Skein being 1-A sounds pretty unfounded to me. It sounds like the prime reasoning behind it comes from taking this scan to mean that it, like the Warp, fundamentally has no dimensions whatsoever, and that those only exist in it when forcibly imposed:

She let out a soft sigh as her spirit slipped its moorings and lifted into the outermost edges of the skein, letting its familiar mosaic of pasts and futures wash over her and renew her with its liminal beauty. It had no geography, save that which she imposed upon it, though its fluid, structureless immensity was only fleetingly visible through the many barriers that separated her from its depths.
Click to expand...

A realm being described as being "structureless" and having "no geography" is not really enough evidence for that, though. All this shows is that the Skein has no concise form because it is a realm of pure mind and potentiality. The Great Dragon's true form (Which seems to be described as above the Skein) being stated to have its bulk wrapped around higher dimensions contradicts this, too:

Against this vista flickered the souls of Eldar, their jewel-brightness dimmed by the incomparable glare of the Great Dragon. And this was but a tendril of the creature. The bulk of it stretched away, coils wrapped tight about the higher dimensions, joining in the distance to others, and then others again, until at a great confluence of the parts sat the terrible truth of the whole.
Click to expand...

As for the Warp: Yeah, it does seem like it having layers is legit, especially given how they're described as "layered infinities" and as "a boundless sea within a sea within a sea." But frankly I don't see the rationale behind those layers being infinite in number. It seems like it hinges on the idea that, since the Warp and the Materium are mirrored structures, the former's layers have a one-to-one correspondence with the "infinite interleaved universes" of the latter, but I don't see much suggesting that, especially given that said universes seem to be just parallel realities/branes strung across a higher-dimensional space, with no relationship of superiority or inferiority among them. So, clarification on that matter would be appreciated.
 
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I mean, the Warp and the Materium are mirrored so why wouldn't they have correspondence, unless the suggestion is that there's both layered infinities as well as infinite interleaved universes existing independently of each other?
 
Also the interleaved universes that Kha Banda witnesses are in fact, part of an aspect of reality somehow more fundamental than even the Skein itself. This is known implicitly through Tzeentch and the Chaos God's lack of knowledge in them, despite them having created the Skein themselves. Knowing this, the layered infinities IMO should be considered to be infinite in number, as more fundamental parts of reality contain infinite universes. It really doesn't make sense for universes inside the Warp/Skein to be finite if more fundamental aspects of reality makes them infinite. So it's not really hingeing on the Warp mirroring the Skein and vice versa, but an aspect of fundamental reality that should be reflected in inferior parts of reality. Simply put, the space between worlds having infinite universes but not infinitely layered infinities when somehow the Warp and the Skein have one doesn't make any sense.

Conversely, how come a more fundamental aspect of reality than either the Skein or the Warp cannot have layered infinities despite less fundamental spaces containing these layered infinities (the Warp/Skein)? I'm not good at discerning this, so I simply need to question whether these infinite universes being part of a more fundamental aspect of reality than the Warp or the Skein perhaps might suggest something different to what's currently being proposed?

Because I feel as if taking it into context, they would need to correspond with each other taking Kha'Bandha scan for what it is. It makes sense in my head to assume these at least.
 
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Pain_to12 said:
Of course, I have little knowledge about the verse, so I am going solely based on what is given and the context. So if I misinterpret something, point that out.

Let’s take this bit by bit
My first question is this?


This is a 2-A structure
Click to expand...
Yes that's true.
Pain_to12 said:
Nothing here says they were referring to higher dimensions 🤔 it may as well be pointing to the 2-A structure above
Click to expand...
I will post the full quote because they are explicitly referring to M-Theory (which is a higher dimensional theorem)

‘The Binary Apostle is maintaining the brane shield, which is, as you are aware, keeping us alive, but the effort of doing so is destroying him.’

‘I have never heard of a brane shield,’ I say.

‘I should be surprised if you had,’ he says, holding up a hand to forestall any response at the implied insult to my intelligence.

‘It is incredibly ancient techno-arcana that relies on an understanding of M-theory. Do you possess such an understanding, Baron Roland?’

‘No, but I am a quick study.’ Vril pauses, no doubt trying to think of how he can explain something complex to a man he believes to be mentally subnormal.

‘The central conceit is that our visible, four-dimensional universe is restricted to a brane, that is, a membrane, inside a higher dimensional space,’ he begins, and already I feel any hope of comprehension fall away. ‘A theoretically infinite number of dimensions of potentially infinite scale occupy other branes, which, in effect, means there can be an endless series of alternate realities, intersecting with our own in ways we cannot possibly imagine in any currently posited cosmological model.’

The silence that follows his ‘explanation’ tells him all he needs to know of how much we have understood.

‘So a brane shield moves us out of the brane in which our known universe exists and into another,’ says Anthonis. ‘Now is that a pre-existing brane or a newly created one?’ We turn to look at Anthonis and he shrugs. ‘I have a lot of time to read now,’ is his explanation, and I almost burst out laughing until I remember why he now has a lot of time to read. Adept Vril has the good grace to sound impressed when he says, ‘A simplistic way of interpreting a complex theory, but, in essence, correct. And in answer to your question, the field generator shifts us into the nearest unoccupied brane, one yet to develop its own internal universe. There we reside in splendid isolation. Nothing can interact with us, but nor can we interact with anything beyond the extent of the field until its deactivation returns us to our origin point.’''
 
Ultima_Reality said:
So, reading through the blog:

The Skein being 1-A sounds pretty unfounded to me. It sounds like the prime reasoning behind it comes from taking this scan to mean that it, the line Warp, fundamentally has no dimensions whatsoever, and that those only exist in it when forcibly imposed:



A realm being described as being "structureless" and having "no geography" is not really enough evidence for that, though. All this shows is that the Skein has no concise form because it is a realm of pure mind and potentiality. The Great Dragon's true form (Which seems to be described as above the Skein) being stated to have its bulk wrapped around higher dimensions contradicts this, too:
Click to expand...
The Skein being 1-A isn't 100% necessary for the purpose of the cosmology. What is it about the warp that would imply it's references to lacking georgraphy/it's geography being imposed by it's residents that makes it 1-A? just more statements then this to back it up?

The reason I thought it worked well was because of how explicitly reality and the Warp are described as directly mirroring each other, which is something we have kind of hand waved away as not being literal.
Ultima_Reality said:
As for the Warp: Yeah, it does seem like it having layers is legit, especially given how they're described as "layered infinities" and as "a boundless sea within a sea within a sea." But frankly I don't see the rationale behind those layers being infinite in number. It seems like it hinges on the idea that, since the Warp and the Materium are mirrored structures, the former's layers have a one-to-one correspondence with the "infinite interleaved universes" of the latter, but I don't see much suggesting that, especially given that said universes seem to be just parallel realities/branes strung across a higher-dimensional space, with no relationship of superiority or inferiority among them. So, clarification on that matter would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
The Warp having infinite layers is only a possibility.

Honestly the main reasoning the Warp 'possibly' has infinite layers is a matter of scaling.

Realms in Age of Sigmar are also described as 'layered'

"The barbican was a realmgate of sorts, the Queen of the Peak’s domain a pocket enclave, a self-contained magical plateau shifted slightly aside from Ursungorod and the Realm of Beasts. The Bear-clad would not have understood such a thing, the concept of the Mortal Realms layered and entwined about each other as alien to his mind as the idea that he might one day become an immortal war leader clad in armour forged from metal mined in the heart of a dead world."-Realmgate Wars vol 2

Shysh has extremely similar properties to the warp to where it's essentially the exact same thing.

"Long ago, Shyish was said to be filled with countless underworlds, each as different as the cultures whose beliefs formed them, and every one had a god to watch over it." -AoS soulbound

"Shyish is a realm of endings. Within its borders lie underworlds beyond counting, each summoned into being by the collective belief of mortal-kind, and formed from purest death magic. At the centre of it all, within the great citadel of Nagashizzar, dwells the Supreme Lord of the Undead." - Death Battle Tome Legions of Nagash

The Warp is akin to Shysh but more fundamental in that it is from which all existence is brought forth.

It would logically follow that the warp should contain 'countless' layers or 'layers beyond counting' from scaling to Shysh.
 
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I guess I perhaps should have added stuff from Age of Sigmar earlier in the blog. I am also doing a bit of circular scaling which is kind of weird for tier 1 stuff I guess? but it's like Warp is bigger then Shysh which is mirrored with reality in some regard (which leant more credence to the interleaved infinite universes also scaling to this)
 
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