- 15,606
- 7,019
Figured I might as well post this for some analysis.
As some of you may know, despite being a fan of this franchise, due to its slightly controversial and confusing nature, I have been strongly against performing upgrades when there is a lack of solid proof.
However, reading through some of the novels I own, I came across an extremely blatant High 1-B feat that I had initially missed within Gods of Mars, and a newer supporting feat from Magnus the Red: Master of Prospero. They will be provided with context, below.
Datacores burned like newborn suns in constellations of linked neural networks. The Speranza was in constant dialogue with itself, learning and growing with every solution gained.
Heuristic in the purest sense of the word.
Every paradigm of scalable time, from the cosmic day to compression of universal history to a single hour, failed utterly to capture the datascape's infinite scope. Its mysteries went back to the first stone tools hacked from river bedrock and stretched into the Omega Point, the Logos, and the Hyparxis all in one.
And for all that this aspect of the Speranza was a place of knowledge and understanding, it was also one of metaphor, allusion, and maddening symbolism. Highways of light were easy enough to interpret, but what of the vast, serpentine coils arcing above and below to encircle the world before coming around to engulf itself? What of the conjoined helicies of light that split apart like the branches of a towering tree with its roots dug deep into the datascape? Could he even see these things truly or was his hominid brain simply interpreting the unknown in ways he could process?
Looking down, if down was even a concept in the infinitely-dimensional realms of thought, it was clear how foolish and naive he had been to claim to have been the Speranza's master." - Gods of Mars
This felt like it was stretching him past the breaking point.
Then, like taut elastic, he snapped back.
Vertigo, again. Motion blur, quickly followed by nausea. He fought it, knowing it wasn't real. Inner ear balance that wasn't his. A centre of gravity altered. Someone else's body.
New sensations, all unpleasant.
The nausea diminished. The sense of dislocation passed. Light and three-dimensional space unfolded. Dimensions had meaning, again. The vectors of X, Y, and Z restored."
"Information hung in bright veils, reams of icons, numbers and readouts unravelling in skeins of light, a neural network of unimaginable intricacy and multi-dimensional geometry."
"Azuramagelli barked in the negative. 'The calculations are too complex for those
not versed in hexamathical logic equations. You could not comprehend the multi-dimensional integer lattices without augmentation or inloaded wetware."
"Vitali's brain had been augmented, rewired and surgically conditioned in so many ways that its processes resembled those of a baseline human in only the most superficial ways. He thought faster and on multiple levels at once. His powers of lateral thinking and complex, multi-dimensional visualisation were beyond the abilities of even gifted human polymaths to comprehend."
So even within context, the original feat is blatantly infinite-dimensional.
To see so delicate a mechanism in Perturabo's hands seemed incongruous, as most apparatus bearing the stamp of the Iron Warriors that Atharva had seen ― save for those within this chamber ― had been brutally functional. 'Does it work?'
'I am not entirely sure,' answered Perturabo. 'You never fully explained its intended purpose or how exactly it was designed to function'.
'You've built it,' said Magnus. 'What do you think it does?'.
'I believe it to be some form of navigational instrument,' said Perturabo, lifting the device to look through one of its eyepieces. 'It has the look of a sextant once used by seafarers, but with infinitely more dimensions to its operation. What manner of ocean would you be navigating to require such a device?'.
'The Great Ocean,' said Magnus. 'It allows even those without our gifts to perceive the realm beyond.'."
An infinite white void surrounded him, without dimensions or points of reference. He did not know this place, but it was clearly not the Great Ocean. Perhaps this was what it was like to die? Or was this what the mind experienced when it finally let slip the moorings of existence and gave in to death?
No, neither of these answers seemed satisfactory. For all that he had no experience of dying, this did not feel like the end of his body of light.
He had no sensation of his flesh, no sight of the absurdly fragile silver thread that linked his power to his corporeal shell when soaring in the Great Ocean.
Perhaps he had reached too far, dared too greatly, and this was the price he must pay."
I believe this would be the first, solid reason to change the Chaos Gods to High 1-B. Even their current "1-B, possibly higher" rating comes from scaling to the true dimensions of the material world, which they are transcendent of by their very nature.
However, I would like input.
As some of you may know, despite being a fan of this franchise, due to its slightly controversial and confusing nature, I have been strongly against performing upgrades when there is a lack of solid proof.
However, reading through some of the novels I own, I came across an extremely blatant High 1-B feat that I had initially missed within Gods of Mars, and a newer supporting feat from Magnus the Red: Master of Prospero. They will be provided with context, below.
- First, in Gods of Mars, we have the blatantly High 1-B quote. Several characters interact with the "datascape", which is an infinite realm of pure knowledge and metaphor, which is both greater than the combined knowledge of the universe, its Omega Point, and is infinitely dimensioned compared to the limited ones we are used to. This is important because it is made clear that the experience these Adeptus Mechanicus characters have with this realm is forged by their perception, which further cements this just being an aspect of the Immaterium.
Datacores burned like newborn suns in constellations of linked neural networks. The Speranza was in constant dialogue with itself, learning and growing with every solution gained.
Heuristic in the purest sense of the word.
Every paradigm of scalable time, from the cosmic day to compression of universal history to a single hour, failed utterly to capture the datascape's infinite scope. Its mysteries went back to the first stone tools hacked from river bedrock and stretched into the Omega Point, the Logos, and the Hyparxis all in one.
And for all that this aspect of the Speranza was a place of knowledge and understanding, it was also one of metaphor, allusion, and maddening symbolism. Highways of light were easy enough to interpret, but what of the vast, serpentine coils arcing above and below to encircle the world before coming around to engulf itself? What of the conjoined helicies of light that split apart like the branches of a towering tree with its roots dug deep into the datascape? Could he even see these things truly or was his hominid brain simply interpreting the unknown in ways he could process?
Looking down, if down was even a concept in the infinitely-dimensional realms of thought, it was clear how foolish and naive he had been to claim to have been the Speranza's master." - Gods of Mars
- Not only is this clearly referring to higher-dimensions, but it is strongly supported within the context of the book and its series of novels. Near the very beginning, we were explicitly told dimensions had no meaning when in the "datascape".
This felt like it was stretching him past the breaking point.
Then, like taut elastic, he snapped back.
Vertigo, again. Motion blur, quickly followed by nausea. He fought it, knowing it wasn't real. Inner ear balance that wasn't his. A centre of gravity altered. Someone else's body.
New sensations, all unpleasant.
The nausea diminished. The sense of dislocation passed. Light and three-dimensional space unfolded. Dimensions had meaning, again. The vectors of X, Y, and Z restored."
- On top of that, this is also made clear to refer to all dimensions, and not just the ones humans normally experience. The main characters of the series spend the majority of it analyzing and discussing nigh-imposibly complex higher-dimensional mathematics.
"Information hung in bright veils, reams of icons, numbers and readouts unravelling in skeins of light, a neural network of unimaginable intricacy and multi-dimensional geometry."
"Azuramagelli barked in the negative. 'The calculations are too complex for those
not versed in hexamathical logic equations. You could not comprehend the multi-dimensional integer lattices without augmentation or inloaded wetware."
"Vitali's brain had been augmented, rewired and surgically conditioned in so many ways that its processes resembled those of a baseline human in only the most superficial ways. He thought faster and on multiple levels at once. His powers of lateral thinking and complex, multi-dimensional visualisation were beyond the abilities of even gifted human polymaths to comprehend."
So even within context, the original feat is blatantly infinite-dimensional.
- This is not the solitary instance I wanted to post, either. When reading through Magnus the Red: Master of Prospero, Magnus has Perturabo make him a replica of a device very similar to a sextant, yet requiring infinite more dimensions to its operation. This is revealed to be what is used to navigate the Warp.
To see so delicate a mechanism in Perturabo's hands seemed incongruous, as most apparatus bearing the stamp of the Iron Warriors that Atharva had seen ― save for those within this chamber ― had been brutally functional. 'Does it work?'
'I am not entirely sure,' answered Perturabo. 'You never fully explained its intended purpose or how exactly it was designed to function'.
'You've built it,' said Magnus. 'What do you think it does?'.
'I believe it to be some form of navigational instrument,' said Perturabo, lifting the device to look through one of its eyepieces. 'It has the look of a sextant once used by seafarers, but with infinitely more dimensions to its operation. What manner of ocean would you be navigating to require such a device?'.
'The Great Ocean,' said Magnus. 'It allows even those without our gifts to perceive the realm beyond.'."
- To further cement this, when Magnus later goes deeper into the Warp than he ever has before, he finds himself in an infinite void where dimensions no longer exist, which further supports the prior quote of needing infinite-dimensional navigation to move through the Warp's "tides" in an accurate way.
An infinite white void surrounded him, without dimensions or points of reference. He did not know this place, but it was clearly not the Great Ocean. Perhaps this was what it was like to die? Or was this what the mind experienced when it finally let slip the moorings of existence and gave in to death?
No, neither of these answers seemed satisfactory. For all that he had no experience of dying, this did not feel like the end of his body of light.
He had no sensation of his flesh, no sight of the absurdly fragile silver thread that linked his power to his corporeal shell when soaring in the Great Ocean.
Perhaps he had reached too far, dared too greatly, and this was the price he must pay."
- Now not only is this consistent, but it is even directly clarified within the Horus Heresy series why there have been depictions of the Warp with lesser dimensions, over the years. Because the realm is infinitely-dimensioned and has no strong bond to the Materium's physical laws, the denizens and areas of the Warp can simply choose what dimensions they wish to appear in and impose on themselves.
I believe this would be the first, solid reason to change the Chaos Gods to High 1-B. Even their current "1-B, possibly higher" rating comes from scaling to the true dimensions of the material world, which they are transcendent of by their very nature.
However, I would like input.
