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Ki atomizes with a big enough AP advantage, they tanked it because the AP advantage isn't enough which means it wouldn't grant a resistance, it's just a weakness of ki that it requires an AP advantage.
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Vegeta vs Thanos
- Thread starter Spinoirr
- Start date
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Dragon Ball characters don’t have Resistance to Deconstruction so make a CRT.
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The effect of their attack at a certain level wouldn't lose the matter destruction factor. If someone who is stronger is tanking it. It would mean they're resistant to that level. Meaning Vegeta should still be resistant to matter destruction.
Too much work, however the anime version of super would be more impressive since it stated they can turn the universe into a void.
It would depend when they got the cells I suppose, was it stated they got the cells after trunks killed freeza?Actually, if Trunks atomized Mecha Frieza how were his cells from his remains to create Cell? I’m pretty sure atomization is a greater level of destruction than destroying one's cells
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Rez
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The time period was never specified
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Ah yes, atoms. As we all know, atoms are indeed visible to the naked eye.
Being real though "Blasted to atoms" is a common literally device to say "Reduced to small chunks". Its like how announcers will say a runner is "Fast as lightning" despite them not being that fast or how when Shang said ""Have the force of a great typhoon" he didn't literally mean train that they will hit as hard as a typhoon.
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You can still reduce someone to atoms but have other parts be around. The Daizenshuu Is an official encyclopedia approved by Akira Toriyama. This statment isn't contracted, so just trying to beget a subjective feeling over official word is objectively wrong. You would need to prove that they were alluding to hyperbole for that statement.
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it literally is, nowhere in the manga shows that Frieza was reduced to atoms, it still show his parts blowed, and being atomized due a AP gap is different than a hax that turn the enemy into dust
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That not what contradicted means though. The Daizenshuu has explanations that weren't in the series, dosen't mean all of those are wrong. Plus like I said you can split atoms but not have to do that for the whole being. Even in this instance, we only see little bits and pieces, meaning the parts of his body not shown had a greater result of destruction. Both the blast and hax would have the same effect of splitting atoms apart, so if you resist one the other would be resisted as well.
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No a weakness of an ability doesn't grant a resistance, ki only atomizes at a large AP advantage, which is why buu kept coming back even though he was blasted by ki and destroyed to the point of becoming mere molecules by goten.
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The weakness of the hax argument is just weak though. People's raw power in dragonball has many effects, like resisting abilites, as well as creating portals, etc. It's not like you give others series the vice shout ability in a vsbattle.
By definition they're resisting these abilities effects. The cause of the negation is due to their power. The ability effect will always be the same.
I concur that the atomization process occurs when you're stronger. However, since the effect of these blast are splitting atoms, that effect will still try and happen on these stronger foes. Since they tank this effect they're resistanting the matter destruction.
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The ability REQUIRES an AP advantage to work, that is literally a weakness, it doesn't grant a resistance, but if you think it does then make a CRT, as claiming this here would do no good.
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However, weaker character still resisted that effect. For example with like hakai. Base goku resisted a certain level of effect for EE. The fact he resisted it dosen't go away, the stronger characters who can EE him would bypass that resistance. Then the people who can't EE the people stronger than them, begets the notions of those characters having a stronger resistances. This applies for the matter destruction as well, it keeps on scaling up.
Saying to make CRT cause its not on their profiles just halts the conversation points though.
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Because we only debate with what's on their profiles?
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That seems kind of lame, is there a rule?
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Afaik, yes.
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Hakai is completely different, it does actually grant a resistance, this is a false equivalence, matter destruction though literally has a weakness where it only works if there is a sufficient AP advantage which is not the case with hakai, no character has resist the effect of the matter destruction when there WAS an AP advantage.
I agree with you, that's lame.
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Hakai in dragonball can be overpowered with raw power wdym. Vegeta literally said he'll create a attack too powerful to destroy to Toppo. They're both very analogous in that sense. The main problem with what you're propagating is you're assuming their blast dosen't attempt to atomize something when firing at someone stronger. Since it was stated it can, then that's a common effect for the attacks. Therefore, stronger characters are resisting that effect.
But yeah, It's seem banal to argue who should win in a vsdebate if you're stuck to the profiles. Alot of vsbattles on this site I've seen people use items not on the profile.
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It doesn't atomize someone who's stronger because it requires an AP advantage to do so, if it's tied to AP then it's a weakness, which means it wouldn't grant a resistance to someone who can resist it because of it's weakness. Basically energy can vaporize a dude if it's powerful enough, what you are trying to say essentially is that because one dude is able to survive an energy attack that isn't strong enough to vaporize him then he resists vaporization, which clearly isn't true because of how energy works.
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You're saying they don't resist because how energy works. However, how energy blast work in dragonball is they're affect atoms. You need to delineate in better detail how the Ap is equivalent to a weakness for this topic. It's simple causality, an attack which affects atoms that gets tanked, means by definition, they resisted that action. Can you debunk that the weaker characters didn't tank their blast? Or using the hakai example again, since its a good comparison. Did base Goku not tank EE and soul erasure, since hakai can be resisted by power? Even though they explicitly have those affects.
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Because a normal matter destruction hax would effect someone regardless of whether they are strong or weaker than the attacker, but in dragon ball it's tied to AP, so an energy attack CAN damage a stronger opponent but it won't atomize, but once the AP advantage is big enough it will. This means that they don't resist the matter hax but instead that is a weakness of the matter hax, it's limited matter manipulation. Hakai doesn't depend on AP so it can still grant a resistance, I think that's how they treat it.
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You noted that it was done via ap. But with ap in dragonball, power isn't the same in all verses. Other characters don't have KI. With dragonball's power you can tank these abilities as well as have additional powers, such as the vice shout. Too be totally consistant you would need to say characters from other verses could use these abilities, which is completely wrong.
Also you noted how its matter manipulation. Like I mentioned, the semantics around the word resist. They tanked these attacks with these affects. The definition of resist is to withstand an attack. Is the definition wrong?
Your statement on hakai is wrong. Vegeta mentioned "power" for overcoming hakai. As well as other examples, such as Toppo powering up his hakai to try and beat Vegeta.
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Dragon ball characters get abilities from powers done with AP, so buu screaming space away is spatial manipulation despite it done by sheer AP, IDK what point you are trying to make here.
the definition is not wrong no it's just that the matter hax only takes effect when there's a significant AP advantage, and nobody has actually shown a resistance to that, and we know that the matter hax doesn't take place because ki blasts can harm a stronger person yet still not atomize take any example of buu getting blasted and yet not dying, a normal matter hax wouldn't be dependent on AP like that.
That grants vegeta a resistance because unlike matter hax, he is actually resisting the EE.
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vegeta case is moot since vegeta here is manga version
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1. The point is resisting these abilities is due to ki, same with the abilities such as vice shout. You agree that they gain abilities with power. Why wouldn't this include resistances as well.
2. The matter ability is always in effect though. It's just a property of ki past a certain power point. If these characters are trying to damage someone and their above Trunks they're ki would be attempting to split the atoms.
3. But with your logic, the hakai just wouldn't be in effect since it's not erasing these characters due to their power.
It was only an example, since its a similar case with the matter destruction.
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Content Revision
Often, statistics and other important contents for profile pages need to be revised. Any discussion pertaining to such revisions must be done in this board. Before posting, make sure that your arguments are presented in a manner that is easy to understand and backed by valid scans. In...
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Content Revision
Often, statistics and other important contents for profile pages need to be revised. Any discussion pertaining to such revisions must be done in this board. Before posting, make sure that your arguments are presented in a manner that is easy to understand and backed by valid scans. In...vsbattles.com
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As lame as it is your arguments are kinda meaningless until you update our profiles to reflect that they have these Abilities/Resistances
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That doesn't mean its infallible and more importantly does not dispute my claim that its just a common hyperbolic statement used in fiction. You can see Frieza's remains with a zoom in shot.
I did prove it with my scan. You can see burning chunks from Frieza that was left over and those chunks are massively larger than atoms.
Rez
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Ok now explain cell's nuclei and kid buu
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-it would include resistances too but that doesn't mean it will always.
-It's not always in effect, we know this because ki blasts can damage stronger people without the matter hax happening, the matter stuff only happens when there is an AP advantage, normal matter hax doesn't do that, if ki blasts can damage someone but matter hax doesn't happen and only happens at a significant AP advantage then it's limited and shouldn't grant a resistance until a character is shown resisting getting their molecules destroyed at an AP disadvantage.
-It would be considered a resistance because the EE of hakai here is not limited.
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You can still reduce someone to atoms and have other parts of the something be around that dosen't disprove it. Yes, IF the daizenchuu is contradicted for a peculiar issue, it can be disregarded. However this dosen't disprove it, the other parts of his body not shown would begets the notion of higher destruction anyways, as its out of view. I already mentioned these points too, you just choose not to acknowledge them.
Reduce means "make smaller or less in amount, degree, or size".
When it comes to the matter vs hakai discussion you're having double standards.
"can damage stronger people without the matter hax happening, the matter stuff only happens when there is an AP advantage"
Literally happens like how you're alluding to with hakai. As I shown before it's explicitly an ap related thing with the hakai ability. You would need to rebuke this as well if you want to be logically consistent.
"then it's limited and shouldn't grant a resistance until a character is shown resisting getting their molecules destroyed at an AP disadvantage".
This also applies to hakai, as everyone who resists is stronger via ap than the attack.
The problem you're not getting is the ATTEMPT for the effects. Just like the hakai which is attempting to erase goku out of existence. When someone fire a blast at someone to damage them or vaporize them. They're still attempting to do that action. You would need to prove they're turning it off, which isn't the case
If someone who is damaged but not vaporized, it would mean they're not completely immune to the characters level of atomic destruction. Like I mentioned it keeps scaling up, simular to the hakai, which you only agree with latter for some reason. Its not like you would say freeza isn't resistant because Toppo said he could easily erase him.
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But it literally does. If the attack leaves stuff remaining then it didn't atomize the object.
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You're acting like you have to split every atom of someone to have split any atoms of someone though. Like If I use a pyrokinesis on a tree and turn alot of it into ash but there's some bark left. I still reduced it into ash, the definition propgates this view.
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