Vegeta vs Thanos

[Bernkastelll]

I mean, do I have 'cell manipulation" because a punch literally damage the cells from someone?

 

[ArmBill]

I mean, do I have 'cell manipulation" because a punch literally damage the cells from someone?

In this instance though it's talking about spliting atoms, which in real life is only done with nucular fission and other extreme inhuman powers. If you split an atom at all its still matter manipulation.

 

[ArmBill]

In terms of my vote I feel inconclusive fra is fair enough. While I don't think the snap would work, thanos has a plethora of hax that should work.

 

[sanicspood]

i mean the snap would work cuz at the end of the day vegeta doesn't have deconstruction resistance on the profile

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

You can still reduce someone to atoms and have other parts of the something be around that dosen't disprove it. Yes, IF the daizenchuu is contradicted for a peculiar issue, it can be disregarded. However this dosen't disprove it, the other parts of his body not shown would begets the notion of higher destruction anyways, as its out of view. I already mentioned these points too, you just choose not to acknowledge them.

Reduce means "make smaller or less in amount, degree, or size".


When it comes to the matter vs hakai discussion you're having double standards.

"can damage stronger people without the matter hax happening, the matter stuff only happens when there is an AP advantage"



Literally happens like how you're alluding to with hakai. As I shown before it's explicitly an ap related thing with the hakai ability. You would need to rebuke this as well if you want to be logically consistent.

"then it's limited and shouldn't grant a resistance until a character is shown resisting getting their molecules destroyed at an AP disadvantage".

This also applies to hakai, as everyone who resists is stronger via ap than the attack.

The problem you're not getting is the ATTEMPT for the effects. Just like the hakai which is attempting to erase goku out of existence. When someone fire a blast at someone to damage them or vaporize them. They're still attempting to do that action. You would need to prove they're turning it off, which isn't the case

If someone who is damaged but not vaporized, it would mean they're not completely immune to the characters level of atomic destruction. Like I mentioned it keeps scaling up, simular to the hakai, which you only agree with latter for some reason. Its not like you would say freeza isn't resistant because Toppo said he could easily erase him.

Yeah the hakai here is trying to erase Goku but Goku has a resistance, but the reason why matter hax doesn't grant a resistance is because it doesn't do the matter stuff unless there is an AP advantage, a character can be damaged by an energy attack but not vaporized, does that mean that character somehow resists vaporization? No. When you pump more energy into the energy attack, after a certain point, it will be strong enough to vaporize, if we try to apply this to the hax, then the ordinary hax would work regardless of AP, but it doesn't here, and that's a weakness in the ability, so a character wouldn't be resisting matter manipulation because you cannot grant a resistance because of a weakness of a hax. I hope I made it as clear as possible.

 

[ArmBill]

Yeah the hakai here is trying to erase Goku but Goku has a resistance, but the reason why matter hax doesn't grant a resistance is because it doesn't do the matter stuff unless there is an AP advantage, a character can be damaged by an energy attack but not vaporized, does that mean that character somehow resists vaporization? No. When you pump more energy into the energy attack, after a certain point, it will be strong enough to vaporize, if we try to apply this to the hax, then the ordinary hax would work regardless of AP, but it doesn't here, and that's a weakness in the ability, so a character wouldn't be resisting matter manipulation because you cannot grant a resistance because of a weakness of a hax. I hope I made it as clear as possible.

But you're not addressing the fact that hakai is the very thing that you disagree with on the atomic destruction. Both are tanked with power, you trying to say the effect is not happening when they tank it so its not a resistance. If the "weakness of the hax" applies to the atomic destruction then it would apply to hakai as well. You can also apply this logic to any ability that dosen't work. You're acting like an ability with these effects have to work on anyone stronger for the effects to still be attempting to process, which isn't a rule of any kind, it's just most people in fiction aren't able to tank something that can bypass their nature, like affecting their soul or splitting atoms. You're saying it's not affecting then but not proving the matter manipulation is not apart of the blast when they hit stronger opponent. Since the ki of a trunks lvl fighter can use the ki to manipulate atoms apart, it means that effect is applying to anytime someone else is that stronger. The feats will always be there, they didn't just lose the factor of tanking ki trying to split their atoms.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I hope I made it as clear as possible.

I mean, just post the EE description from the wiki

Existence Erasure is the simple power to remove something from existence, leaving nothing behind, a level of destruction beyond incineration, vaporization, and atomization. Rather than just reducing something to its constituent parts, this ability leaves absolutely nothing behind.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

But you're not addressing the fact that hakai is the very thing that you disagree with on the atomic destruction. Both are tanked with power, you trying to say the effect is not happening when they tank it so its not a resistance. If the "weakness of the hax" applies to the atomic destruction then it would apply to hakai as well. You can also apply this logic to any ability that dosen't work. You're acting like an ability with these effects have to work on anyone stronger for the effects to still be attempting to process, which isn't a rule of any kind, it's just most people in fiction aren't able to tank something that can bypass their nature, like affecting their soul or splitting atoms. You're saying it's not affecting then but not proving the matter manipulation is not apart of the blast when they hit stronger opponent. Since the ki of a trunks lvl fighter can use the ki to manipulate atoms apart, it means that effect is applying to anytime someone else is that stronger. The feats will always be there, they didn't just lose the factor of tanking ki trying to split their atoms.

I don't know man I've already explained why the ability is limited several times, it would just be me repeating myself at this point, see, ki blasts behave like how normal energy does in the real world, but with the additional ability that it can destroy more, so regualr energy caps at vaporization but ki can go up to atomization, if you apply this to normal energy then you won't get resistance to vaporization if an energy attack doesn't vaporize you, it's the same concept here, if you try to label this power with an ability it would be matter manipulation, but it's limited because it needs a significant AP advantage to work, this is why a character who resist this doesn't get a resistance, because they aren't actually resisting matter hax, on the other hand, hakai works regardless, so resisting it does grant a resistance. I suggest you just make a CRT and call me to it.

 

[ArmBill]

I don't know man I've already explained why the ability is limited several times, it would just be me repeating myself at this point, see, ki blasts behave like how normal energy does in the real world, but with the additional ability that it can destroy more, so regualr energy caps at vaporization but ki can go up to atomization, if you apply this to normal energy then you won't get resistance to vaporization if an energy attack doesn't vaporize you, it's the same concept here, if you try to label this power with an ability it would be matter manipulation, but it's limited because it needs a significant AP advantage to work, this is why a character who resist this doesn't get a resistance, because they aren't actually resisting matter hax, on the other hand, hakai works regardless, so resisting it does grant a resistance. I suggest you just make a CRT and call me to it.

Even with vaporization, it would be by definition of resistance, resisting the effects of vaporization, if you tank it. You would be resisting the boiling point where vaporization occurs. This would scale with higher stats. A normal size human who is star level, could easily tank the energy to vaporize a normal human. Thus needing more energy for that action. However they're still able to resist the boiling point for their size. So you can indeed be resistant to vaporization. This applies to the tier above future ssj Trunks, but with splitting atoms. The energy output for trunks has the effect of splitting atoms in dragonball, while a certain energy output can vaporize a human. Those effects are for a certain output and they're always trying to affect.

Hakai doesn't work regardless of ap. I'm confused why you're propagating this. Vegeta said he used his power to overcome Toppos hakai, which debunks that it works regardless of ap in dragonball. Since it's not shown to work on stronger foes, I could say your notion of it not having an effect so they don't have a resistance, not that I agree with that.

I do want dragonball to get the things I gave an edification on, but I'll make it when I'm really bored, since I'll need to give attention to it.

I mean, just post the EE description from the wiki

I'm not saying there the same thing, I'm trying to beget the notion that in dragonball, both EE and Atom splitting are tied to power.

 

[Qawsedf234]

, I'm trying to beget the notion that in dragonball, both EE and Atom splitting are tied to power.

They aren't considered such on the wiki. They're two different types of esoteric resistances. As such Vegeta doesn't have a resistance to it.

If you have a problem with it make a CRT, as this is a massive derailment of the topic at hand.

 

[ArmBill]

They aren't considered such on the wiki. They're two different types of esoteric resistances. As such Vegeta doesn't have a resistance to it.

If you have a problem with it make a CRT, as this is a massive derailment of the topic at hand.

I read the vs battle rule page, and it never specified that you have to only use the info on the pages. It just said to make sure to get a basic understanding of the characters from the page. Do site it if I missed it though.

If this is the case, then I can perminate my edification, since what I'm delineating is relevant to this matchup.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Even with vaporization, it would be by definition of resistance, resisting the effects of vaporization, if you tank it. You would be resisting the boiling point where vaporization occurs. This would scale with higher stats. A normal size human who is star level, could easily tank the energy to vaporize a normal human. Thus needing more energy for that action. However they're still able to resist the boiling point for their size. So you can indeed be resistant to vaporization. This applies to the tier above future ssj Trunks, but with splitting atoms. The energy output for trunks has the effect of splitting atoms in dragonball, while a certain energy output can vaporize a human. Those effects are for a certain output and they're always trying to affect.

Hakai doesn't work regardless of ap. I'm confused why you're propagating this. Vegeta said he used his power to overcome Toppos hakai, which debunks that it works regardless of ap in dragonball. Since it's not shown to work on stronger foes, I could say your notion of it not having an effect so they don't have a resistance, not that I agree with that.

I do want dragonball to get the things I gave an edification on, but I'll make it when I'm really bored, since I'll need to give attention to it.

Well resisting vaporization isn't a thing, the energy is just not strong enough to vaporize you, vaporization itself only happens when there's an AP advantage, same thing in the case of ki. Hakai does work but it gives a resistance, characters who can resist it get a resistance, though I think I already explained why it doesn't work for matter manipulation enough, I have nothing more to say all that's left is for you to make the CRT since this discussion here is pointless.

If this is the case, then I can perminate my edification, since what I'm delineating is relevant to this matchup.

I have no idea what the **** you just said but okay.

 

[ArmBill]

Well resisting vaporization isn't a thing, the energy is just not strong enough to vaporize you, vaporization itself only happens when there's an AP advantage, same thing in the case of ki. Hakai does work but it gives a resistance, characters who can resist it get a resistance, though I think I already explained why it doesn't work for matter manipulation enough, I have nothing more to say all that's left is for you to make the CRT since this discussion here is pointless.

Bruuvvv you're not actually addressing my reciprocation to your replies. You just say that's how it is. Actually substantiate how "hakai does work" when it never has worked on a stronger character. When it comes to vaporization, atom splitting, etc. It still has an effect on matter that it's doing. Like the boiling point I already mentioned, which is what vaporization is. They're resisting that.

I have no idea what the **** you just said but okay.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Bruuvvv you're not actually addressing my reciprocation to your replies. You just say that's how it is. Actually substantiate how "hakai does work" when it never has worked on a stronger character. When it comes to vaporization, atom splitting, etc. It still has an effect on matter that it's doing. Like the boiling point I already mentioned, which is what vaporization is. They're resisting that.

Hakai is existence erasure, when someone is hit by it, they get erased from existence, characters who can withstand this ability and not get erased have a resistance to it, which is why vegeta can fight toppo. But on the other hand, something like vaporization only happens when there is a sufficient AP advantage it's not literally always happening when someone gets hit by an energy attack, resisting that doesn't grant a resistance to vaporization, that's called durability... the matter hax works the same way, the only way to get a resistance from that, is if a very weak character for example a theoretical majin buu gets hit by a much stronger ki blast enough to atomize, but after getting hit beyond his regen, his molecules don't get split and he's still able to regen, which means he resisted the matter hax, this never happened before though.

 

[ArmBill]

Hakai is existence erasure, when someone is hit by it, they get erased from existence, characters who can withstand this ability and not get erased have a resistance to it, which is why vegeta can fight toppo. But on the other hand, something like vaporization only happens when there is a sufficient AP advantage it's not literally always happening when someone gets hit by an energy attack, resisting that doesn't grant a resistance to vaporization, that's called durability... the matter hax works the same way, the only way to get a resistance from that, is if a very weak character for example a theoretical majin buu gets hit by a much stronger ki blast enough to atomize, but after getting hit beyond his regen, his molecules don't get split and he's still able to regen, which means he resisted the matter hax, this never happened before though.

I know Existence Erasure erases people from existence. However, as Vegeta said he shot an attack too powerful to work, meaninghakai wasn't showing an effect, which by your logic it would lose the EE effect. Again, you're ignoring the point that vaporization happens because the matter gets to a boiling point where it happens, the causality of this means the affecting ability happens, but it dosen't produce the normal effect, due to the other character resisting it. You need to address these point specifically, you keep repeating things I already read you say.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I know Existence Erasure erases people from existence. However, as Vegeta said he shot an attack too powerful to work, meaninghakai wasn't showing an effect, which by your logic it would lose the EE effect. Again, you're ignoring the point that vaporization happens because the matter gets to a boiling point where it happens, the causality of this means the affecting ability happens, but it dosen't produce the normal effect, due to the other character resisting it. You need to address these point specifically, you keep repeating things I already read you say.

That's because Toppo made an even stronger hakai attack, and Vegeta countered with an even stronger attack, so logically his resistance gets stronger too.
Yeah and a stronger character won't reach a boiling point from a weak attack meaning vaporization won't happen, that is because of DURABILITY, ******* DURABILITY, in the case of matter hax, a characters durability prevents the matter hax from happening which is why the ability is limited which is why it doesn't grant a resistance, that's the same thing I've been saying I've just replaced AP with durability.

 

[Qawsedf234]

it never specified that you have to only use the info on the pages

You can use greater knowledge to go into depth about mindsets or tactics, along with what they may use. But if they don't have an actual power you can't claim they suddenly do for the sake of a vsmatch. You're also misunderstanding how our system quantifies things and how it applies to Vegeta.

So as before drop it or make a CRT to get it accepted.

 

[ArmBill]

@fluffy
"meaning vaporization won't happen, that is because of DURABILITY"

"so logically his resistance gets stronger too."

Their durability with their Ki is what's negating the hakai. It's just Ki is synonymous with power and durability in dragonball so it's interchangeable. You kind of have to capitulate the EE resistance thing, or agree with both. To be completely consistent. As since they tank the hakai with their durability, it could be said it's a weakness of the hax.

Ki is what used to protect the bodies of these dragonball characters, as goku can get hurt by a rock or pierced by bullets when off guard. Their matter would go to boiling point far before the power they've obtained throughout the series. As a simple planet explosion would destroy their bodies. Plus boiling point has to do with the matter their body has and size. Whatever Trunks exact power splits atomic bonds, which their normal bodies without ki couldn't handle. This corrabrates that Ki gives a resistance to these effects. Resist means "withstand the action or effect of". So objectively the ki does resist that effect. You trying propagate that since it's the durability it is not resisting is proven wrong by semantics.

You can use greater knowledge to go into depth about mindsets or tactics, along with what they may use. But if they don't have an actual power you can't claim they suddenly do for the sake of a vsmatch. You're also misunderstanding how our system quantifies things and how it applies to Vegeta.

So as before drop it or make a CRT to get it accepted.

Link where this is stated though, it seems to not be a rule. I showed the proof for it for the atomic stuff, so its not like I'm asspulling it

 

[Qawsedf234]

Link where this is stated though

The entire point of the P&A section is the accepted powers that the character has access to the the wiki. If they aren't present they can't be used for a Vsmatch.

I showed the proof for it for the atomic stuff

Trunks is not proof for atomkc destruction. The manga visually contradicts it.

But you know what is proof for atomic destruction? Vegito disintegrating Super Buu's tentacle and Gotenks. So use them instead.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

@fluffy
"meaning vaporization won't happen, that is because of DURABILITY"

"so logically his resistance gets stronger too."

Their durability with their Ki is what's negating the hakai. It's just Ki is synonymous with power and durability in dragonball so it's interchangeable. You kind of have to capitulate the EE resistance thing, or agree with both. To be completely consistent. As since they tank the hakai with their durability, it could be said it's a weakness of the hax.

Ki is what used to protect the bodies of these dragonball characters, as goku can get hurt by a rock or pierced by bullets when off guard. Their matter would go to boiling point far before the power they've obtained throughout the series. As a simple planet explosion would destroy their bodies. Plus boiling point has to do with the matter their body has and size. Whatever Trunks exact power splits atomic bonds, which their normal bodies without ki couldn't handle. This corrabrates that Ki gives a resistance to these effects. Resist means "withstand the action or effect of". So objectively the ki does resist that effect. You trying propagate that since it's the durability it is not resisting is proven wrong by semantics.

They are not tanking existence erasure with durability, bruh, you CAN'T tank existence erasure with durability, you need resistance.
Again they are not tanking the matter hax. The matter hax only occurs when an energy attack overpowers durability of a dude completely, just like how a normal energy attack works, it only vaporizes there's an AP advantage. If you get hit with an energy attack and don't get vaporized, it would mean that you have enough durability to withstand it, it's the same case with the matter hax, it's being withstood with durability, but you CAN'T withstand matter hax with durability, you need a resistance for that, which is why the matter hax is not happening, but when the energy attack overpowers durability, the matter hax takes place, which is why it only grants a resistance if something like the example I gave happened.

 

[ArmBill]

Vegeta debunks that it isn't through durability. As he literally uses his ki and power to overcome Toppo's hakai, which he encompasses his body with. Just because this is seldom between verses is irrelevant, this is fiction. This also applies to your statment about matter hax can't be withstood with durability, its not a omnipotent rule.

If you get hit with an energy attack and don't get vaporized, it would mean that you have enough durability to withstand it

Even with this though, if you have like multi planetary durability or something. And tank an attack that cause the boiling point of a whole planet, you still tanked an attack that can manipulate matter. This applies to Trunks situation, as trunks energy tore atoms apart. That level of power will always have that going for it. The characters who tanked his attack resisted that level to tear apart atoms.

Also, on the Durability Negation page for matter manipulation it says "In addition, it is possible to resist this ability if the material is reinforced with an armor-like layer of internal or external energy, which holds all the molecules and atoms in their original state." So even the vs wiki pages support my view. These characters bodies aren't ssj Future trunks level, where he can affect atoms. They would normally get destroyed, but their ki can tank the attack.

It depends how strong the matter ability is ultimately. To determine if they durability can resist it. Like someone who can tank only having their atoms pulled apart, could still get affected by someone who can manipulate quarks.

The entire point of the P&A section is the accepted powers that the character has access to the the wiki. If they aren't present they can't be used for a Vsmatch.

It should be a written rule

Trunks is not proof for atomkc destruction. The manga visually contradicts it.

But you know what is proof for atomic destruction? Vegito disintegrating Super Buu's tentacle and Gotenks. So use them instead.

You don't need to destroy everypart of someone to be splitting atoms apart. For example raiden from metal gear rising has a sword which pretty much splits atoms, but it's not like he gonna erase everyone every time he hits something.

Also the best evidence in terms of matter destruction. Is the narrator saying Goku and Beerus power can void out the universe, which means it's becomes nothingness. Too bad this thread isn't anime vegeta .

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

If you have all this proof and arguments to back them up I don’t get why making a CRT is such a problem :/

 

[Qawsedf234]

It should be a written

As before, this topic is done. Vegeta has what's on his profile and nothing else on regards to this vsmatch. Drop the subject and get back on topic.

 

[ArmBill]

If you have all this proof and arguments to back them up I don’t get why making a CRT is such a problem :/

I suppose, I'm just lazy. I enjoy arguing in a random thread more than constructing a new one.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Vegeta debunks that it isn't through durability. As he literally uses his ki and power to overcome Toppo's hakai, which he encompasses his body with. Just because this is seldom between verses is irrelevant, this is fiction. This also applies to your statment about matter hax can't be withstood with durability, its not a omnipotent rule.

That qualifies as a resistance, it doesn't matter if he did it with ki, it doesn't translate to durability.

Even with this though, if you have like multi planetary durability or something. And tank an attack that cause the boiling point of a whole planet, you still tanked an attack that can manipulate matter. This applies to Trunks situation, as trunks energy tore atoms apart. That level of power will always have that going for it. The characters who tanked his attack resisted that level to tear apart atoms.

Ah so you're saying everyone who has durability at all gets resistance to matter hax? wtf? Like I said that's just called durability, that ki is only able to tear apart molecules after it has reached a significant AP advantage, the matter hax won't apply until then.

Also, on the Durability Negation page for matter manipulation it says "In addition, it is possible to resist this ability if the material is reinforced with an armor-like layer of internal or external energy, which holds all the molecules and atoms in their original state." So even the vs wiki pages support my view. These characters bodies aren't ssj Future trunks level, where he can affect atoms. They would normally get destroyed, but their ki can tank the attack.

I agree that is true, but that still doesn't grant a resistance, because they never resisted their atoms getting split or whatever, for that to apply to the characters, you would need one character to be at a significant AP disadvantage enough to atomize, then get hit by the attack but not get atomized, then that would grant a resistance.

They would normally get destroyed, but their ki can tank the attack.

You are literally describing durability, not matter hax resistance.

It depends how strong the matter ability is ultimately. To determine if they durability can resist it. Like someone who can tank only having their atoms pulled apart, could still get affected by someone who can manipulate quarks.

You cannot resist matter hax with durability... and before you say that contradicts my point, no, nobody resisted the matter hax in DB.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Why are we using anime vegeta as a proof?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Why are we using anime vegeta as a proof?

The topic was derailed massively, I'm sure you can tell.

 

[Slacjow]

Vegeta effortlessly one-shots before Thanos pulls one of his hax. The difference in strength is so big that any stray Ki Blast from Vegetable will erase Thanos.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Vegeta effortlessly one-shots before Thanos pulls one of his hax. The difference in strength is so big that any stray Ki Blast from Vegetable will erase Thanos.

The argument is that Thanos will snap right off the bat. Snapping your fingers should be as fast as shooting a Ki blast, so it’d end up a draw

 

[Slacjow]

The argument is that Thanos will snap right off the bat. Snapping your fingers should be as fast as shooting a Ki blast, so it’d end up a draw

There's a context behind Thanos snapping his fingers in MCU.
Which doesn't exist in versus battles.

 

[Daddybrawl]

From what I see, it looks like Thanos wins via Snap.
He can probably snap before Vegeta throws out a Ki Blast. Especially if the Weakness section is correct in that Vegeta tends to let his opponents have a chance in a seek for a good fight.
and every time Thanos has the gauntlet, he snaps immediately, so there’s no reason not to do so now.

As such, I believe I vote Thanos.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Vegeta effortlessly one-shots before Thanos pulls one of his hax. The difference in strength is so big that any stray Ki Blast from Vegetable will erase Thanos.

There's a context behind Thanos snapping his fingers in MCU.
Which doesn't exist in versus battles.

I already talked about this, I don't see point in arguing again, mainly when my computer is not in home

 

[Slacjow]

I already talked about this, I don't see point in arguing again, mainly when my computer is not in home

And that's your interpretation of the fight, which is an opinion.
I vote Vegeta, he will just effortlessly one shot Thanos and I don't believe Thanos will go for a snap, it's not MCU, he doesn't wish to erase half of the Universe.

 

[Ganasto]

And that's your interpretation of the fight, which is an opinion.
I vote Vegeta, he will just effortlessly one shot Thanos and I don't believe Thanos will go for a snap, it's not MCU, he doesn't wish to erase half of the Universe.

He also has mentioned that thanos could transmute Vegeta's ki blasts into bubbles with the reality stone

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Thanos FRA

 

[Bernkastelll]

And that's your interpretation of the fight, which is an opinion.
I vote Vegeta, he will just effortlessly one shot Thanos and I don't believe Thanos will go for a snap, it's not MCU, he doesn't wish to erase half of the Universe.

Thanos can easily transmute the ki blasts into bubbles, and Thanos is with his goal here to erase the universe, thats how In character matches works

 

[Slacjow]

Thanos can easily transmute the ki blasts into bubbles, and Thanos is with his goal here to erase the universe, thats how In character matches works

How many ki blasts can he react to? What if one of those explodes?
What if Thanos snaps, but it will take time to erase Vegeta because that's how the Snap works, it doesn't instantly erase everyone.
Vegeta only needs a second to obliterate Thanos.
At worst, this is inconclusive.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Vegeta can shoot invisible attacks and attacks that spawn on thanos for your information.

 

[Slacjow]

^He almost never does that even though he can.

 

[ArmBill]

That qualifies as a resistance, it doesn't matter if he did it with ki, it doesn't translate to durability.

Ah so you're saying everyone who has durability at all gets resistance to matter hax? wtf? Like I said that's just called durability, that ki is only able to tear apart molecules after it has reached a significant AP advantage, the matter hax won't apply until then.

I agree that is true, but that still doesn't grant a resistance, because they never resisted their atoms getting split or whatever, for that to apply to the characters, you would need one character to be at a significant AP disadvantage enough to atomize, then get hit by the attack but not get atomized, then that would grant a resistance.

You are literally describing durability, not matter hax resistance.

You cannot resist matter hax with durability... and before you say that contradicts my point, no, nobody resisted the matter hax in DB.

Continue arguing here https://vsbattles.com/threads/the-dragonball-matter-destruction-symposium.122702/

Why are we using anime vegeta as a proof?

It's corrabrating the comparsion between power and the abilities