Various JoJo Questions (And the Scaling System)

[Promestein]

That's more a show of stamina than durability.

 

[Arigarmy]

Hm, that could be a point, but the gap for Abbacchio to be found is unknown. And what I was explaining is Bruno still surviving the one donut. Even if its my mistake and it's stamina instead of dura, Giorno and Bruno are equal to each other at least.

 

[Arigarmy]

Yet again something flies over my head but I'm actually somewhat skeptical on if this could count. Sticky Fingers does actually do damage against King Crimson (assuming its AP = Dura without the scaling system). But I'm not sure if he did actual damage or just had a little blood spill out when he put a zipper on him. Regradless he still landed two blows.





What I'm trying to believe is that if KC hadn't intervened with its abilities, it would've probably taken heavy damage. Again, could be wrong, maybe not. I'm not really confident in my skills that much. I could either be living off my own hype or just really misinformed on how AP works, but all I'm trying to do is bring up anything that could be helpful.

 

[Antvasima]

@ArbitraryNumbers Since this is an important series, and you are a staff member, you can ask the rest of the calc group to evaluate your blogs via their message walls, if you do not get enough input.

 

[LoudCloud]

They didn't know DIO could stop time but they knew he had some sort of crazy hax. Silver Chariot might scale to Magician's Red but I don't recall a moment where this was clear. The only time I recall SC being burned by MR was right before it removed its armour to avoid the burns.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Actually, they only assumed DIO had hax after Polnareff told them about when he tried going up the stairs, also Polnareff himself was being burned by MR for a while, Avdol even passed Polnareff a knife so he could end his suffering, so Polnareff definitely scales to MR for his Dura

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

@ArbitraryNumbers Since this is an important series, and you are a staff member, you can ask the rest of the calc group to evaluate your blogs via their message walls, if you do not get enough input.

Alright. I'll ask some people.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

I've asked LordXcano Darkanine for any more input they may have.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Arigarmy]

Is there any final consensus on Bruno? I replied with more panels and another question to make sure nothing is missing, but no responses yet.

For a new topic, is there a way we can find out Echoes ACT3's Speed? At the very least it's Faster than the Eye from what we've seen on its original appearance. However I don't remember and actual speed scaling or feats Echoes had done or gained. I was hoping for some way to scale so we can relay it back on GE or Black Sabbath to GE.

 

[Naitez]

Any feats of Bruno's strength besides touching Diavolo? He seems to let his zippers do most of the work.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

@Ari

I can agree with scaling Bruno's AP to KC's durability. Its durability should be comparable to its AP regardless, since its hand doesn't freaking explode upon punching people. So yes, High 8-C Part 5 cast can be a thing again.

It shouldn't matter whether or not he uses his zippers. He landed a good blow to King Crimson's head. If he can damage King Crimson with a punch, then he can damage King Crimson with a punch.

 

[Arigarmy]

@Natse

That's what I'm trying to find, because the fact that most of his Stand usage is just placing zippers on things make me worry that this is just zipper placement + blood spill, but King Crimson reacts like it's actually being hit and even erases time to avoid being hit. If it has the possibility to harm King Crimson, then that actually could scale.

I'm rereading from the start now to see what I can find, but for the most part Bruno himself punches Giorno himself and gives him the usual blood-drop-from-mouth reaction.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

I agree with Sticky Fingers scaling to King Crimson

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

But it looks like SF landed a good blow to KC's head. Like it made direct contact.

 

[Arigarmy]

I mean yeah, it has to if it's going to put the zipper effect on it. I wasn't saying he never touched KC. But if people agree that SF harmed it, then it could scale now. It will only affect a handful though, not everyone.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

We shouldn't even need to observe the zipper effect to know that it harmed Diavolo. It landed a clear blow to his head.

But yeah, this should scale to GE, and thus scale to everyone who has ever fought GE.

 

[Arigarmy]

Back to ACT3, I don't remember any real things that can act [rimshot] as a speed feat. This panel is the only one I can particularly think of, the whole moving so fast to a shockwave bit. It doesn't seem surprisingly impressive for a JoJo speed feat, but it's all I have in mind.


It moving fast enough to implement 3 Freeze on Kira just as he was pressing down KQ's thumb may also be considered a feat to scale to, but at the same time...


Yeah, I have my doubts. It may have just been Kira taunting for too long in that moment, but what do I know?

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Considering how Kira was on the wires during that part, I highly doubt he'd try to stall anything, so it's more than likely that him taking so long to push it down, or all of the times he said "Bite the Dust will activate!" are all cases of cinematic time. Like I said earlier, JoJo's pretty bad with that kind of stuff.

And ACT 3 isn't really known for its physical strength. So it's no surprise that it wouldn't be able to overpower Killer Queen in hand-to-hand combat. Plus during the final battle, ACT3 was at a distance when it tried the gravity thing and Kira was really being pushed to the limit.

I'll see If I can try calcing it.

 

[Arigarmy]

I wasn't emphasizing on ACT3 not overpowering KQ, I was emphasizing on KQ matching its speed and then outdoing it. If KQ is slower than CD, and ACT3 was unable to blitz KQ, then would ACT3 be even further below down the line then?

Speaking of KQ, have we determined what its speed would be ranked as (or should be ranked as)? It affects both Part 4 and Part 8 equally.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Well I'll need to calc the CD/RHCP feat first to see if it gets anything notable. I'm still thinking of a method.

There's a lot of variables, so we'll have to agree on some assumptions to make in order to narrow down the results.

-How much of the distance did RHCP make it towards the electrical tower before Josuke retrieved Okuyasu's body?

-How far did RHCP travel as Josuke was retrieving Okuyasu's body?

I plan to calc that building explosion, too. Watch me get another freaking 9-B.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Assuming that I get FTL or FTL+ for Crazy Diamond, then KQ should probably get the lower end of whatever that is.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Also, I've been thinking of calcing Crazy Diamond's feat of keeping up with all of Bad Company's bullets. Crazy Diamond's attack rush is fast enough to deflect non-stop fire from a crap ton of M16 assault rifles and several tanks and war helicopters all at once. That's gotta yield some decent results if I cannot figure out how to calc the RHCP feat.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

So..what are the reasons for CD not being scaled to SP? The latter got blatantly caught off-guard by CD. They don't need to match themselves ORA ORA style to scale.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Jotaro made a remark about CD's power, not its speed. Plus he initially came to warn Josuke about a serial killer living in his town, and when he stopped time to defend himself, he just punched Josuke normally instead of having SP wreck him. It's more than likely that Jotaro was holding back, and fighting back against the DORARARA barrage would've lead to severely harming Josuke, which Jotaro didn't want to do, so he stopped time to appear behind him and punch him in the face, ending the fight quickly and safely.

And not only that, but the second CD tried to come out of Josuke, SP was like "bitch nope" and smacked it back in before its entire arm could come out. Easily proving that it's much faster than Crazy Diamond.

So Crazy Diamond scales to Star Platinum in power, not speed, as Crazy Diamond was easily able to break through Star Platinum's guard.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

m8 You're implying that SP is literally 200 times faster than CD. Literally what you're saying. The first encounter should be enough to prove that the difference is clearly not 200.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Did you not read any of the stuff I typed...?

Jotaro was holding back, which I can think of MANY reasons why. Jotaro even said himself that he came prepared to take a punch, so what caught him off guard was CD's POWER, not it's speed. And Star Platinum blitzed CD when it initially tried to come out of Josuke.

And of course CD isn't 200 times slower than Star Platinum. Josuke has a potential FTL+ to MFTL feat that I'm trying to figure out how to calc.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Someone having reasons to hold back doesn't mean that they were. IIRC No explicit statements mention that he was holding back that much.

Especially since Jotaro actually resorted to time stop to avoid a punch from CD instead of just blocking it.

 

[Arigarmy]

So I'm not going to dive into this CD/SP argument, but what building explosion are you discussing AN? The one during the SHA arc? Bad Company?

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

No, I mean I have a lot of evidence to support Jotaro holding back. Like I said, he said it himself that he came expecting to take a punch from Josuke, and instead of having Star Platinum attack him, he just punched him normally. He came with the intent of waning Josuke about the threats in his town, so he had no intention to injure Josuke, and he made a remark the Josuke would be a good ally as well (in one of the scans ari posted above).

He stopped time because trying to fight against the DORARARARA barrage would be dangerous given CD's clearly superior strength, and that would lead to severely harming Josuke, which like I said before, he didn't want to do. So he used Timestop to warp behind him and punch him in the face, as opposed to having Star Platinum wreck him, ending the fight quickly and safely.

Not to mention Star Platinum blitzed CD initially and was able to react to everything it did. Jotaro didn't fight back because he was holding back.

tl;dr: Jotaro made it clear that he was holding back, and Star Platinum initially blitzed CD anyways.

 

[Arigarmy]

I'm still asking about that house AN I would like some feedback my man.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Even if he didn't meant to attack doesn't mean that he wouldn't defend at his fullest. Considering that he punched Josuke hard enough to make him bleed, it's rather clear that he wasn't afraid to punches back. If he truly would have been faster, again, he wouldn't have needed to stop time, even though he hardly does this even in real fights.

Considering that Josuke didn't even know what Stands were, I think it's safe to say that it's closer to Josuke being taken off guard by sudden stand than SP traditionally blitizing CD.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

I'm still asking about that house AN I would like some feedback my man.

The one of Oyecomova blowing up a hotel.

 

[Arigarmy]

Ah, alright then.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Except he wasn't defending at his fullest...? If he were fighting at his fullest, he would've had Star Platinum beat the tar out of Josuke when he stopped time, which he didn't, he just punched him normally. That shows that he was holding back, and explains why he didn't have SP fight back; he was primarily taking a defensive stance, and only fought back when he absolutely had to.

If CD was fast enough, it would've been able to react to Star Platinum regardless. Whether or not he anticipated doesn't change that. If he could perceive it happening, then he would be able to notice that something was coming at him and act accordingly, or at least instinctively defend itself.

Not to mention how Killer Queen was able to at least hold its own against Crazy Diamond at some point, while Star Platinum absolutely destroyed it, even when Jotaro was severely injured. Kira even went as far as to say "he's so fast, it's like he stopped time". We don't get any such statement when Josuke attacked him.

It's not a 200x difference, but Star Platinum is still immensely faster.

 

[Antvasima]

Are you reaching some sort of conclusions here? The thread has turned very long now, so perhaps you should start a continuation topic, with a summary in the beginning?

 

[Naitez]

I was wondering when we'll get all the stuff we've discussed here summed up.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

I've gotten calcs for the following characters done:

-Jolyne

-Jotaro

-Dark Blue Moon

-RHCP

-Tusk ACT 4

We're probably gonna have to make a continuation of the thread, yeah.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Good work.

 

[Arigarmy]

Ant, until all of the characters we already have made have been revised, this topic isn't concluded yet. We're only focusing on main characters and working our way down right now from what I can tell.