Various Empathy / Morality Manipulators

[Promestein]

So... various characters who are just charismatic, and not even supernaturally so (such as Ainz Ooal Gow), have abilities like Empathic Manipulation and Morality Manipulation because of this charisma and manipulative ability.

And, uh, no?

Being charismatic does not magically grant you the ability to control emotions or morality. No character who has not accomplished such a thing through superhuman means, instead relying on just good old rhetoric and charisma, should have these abilities for these reasons. It should be listed under intelligence, or just as "Excellent manipulator" or something. It makes no sense.

I know Morality Manipulation has just regular persuasion on the page but that doesn't make sense either. Listing it as a power suggests some supernatural or superhuman aspect, but there's none there a lot of the time. I think these abilities (and Madness Manipulation) should be solely restricted to people who accomplish these things through supernatural means, and not just talking someone into something.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

yes

 

[Promestein]

Bump.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I'm gonna say the same as Zenkai above: "yes".

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Wait, this is a thing? Freaking what??

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

James Bond used to have Seduction for...well, just being a seducer, not due to any abilities.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

@saikou

It was listed as empathetic manipulation for some reason

 

[QuasiYuri]

Does the charisma of characters like Reinhard Heydrich or Marvus Xoloto are still considered mind / madness / empathic / morality manipulation or should they be listed under intelligence then?

 

[Promestein]

I don't know how either of those people's charisma works.

If the charisma is so great that they can actually control minds then it would qualify.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Reinhard's charisma is more explained on his page and Marvus' charisma make people mad and make fall in love/adorate him like a god just by looking at him or heard him say things like "hey" (can be see at 12:11 to 20:00/21:00)

 

[Promestein]

I dunno about Reinhard's charisma. Marvus' would be supernatural.

 

[ExodusNexus]

I thought Ainz Ooal Gown had a lot of skills relating to morality and its usage?

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Exodus

Ainz can achieve it by manipulating memories, but that isn't just him being charismatic and making people evil.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Wow. I didn't think characters had these abilities listed on their pages for that reason.

I agree, that shouldn't have them unless it's a legit power and not just them being good a speech.

Fallout 3, New Vages, and Fallout 4 characters are an exception in my opinion. You actually have a Charisma State and it effects how convincing you are and they have several perks that work on specific beings.

Like the Animal Friend Perk in Fallout 3 and New Vages. It literally makes all hostile animals friendly, even Raider dogs attack their own masters because of this perk. In Fallout 4 it allows you to pacifi animals (Stop them from attacking you).

 

[Promestein]

Yeah, seems fine to me.

 

[Antoniofer]

Hah, didn't known we had Morality Manipulation, its like a mix between Corruption and Purification.

Yeah, I guess using charisma (or even perhaps intimidation) to changes the though of the people do not count as power, like, talking to someone in mid battle to avoid the fight sounds like CIS (is it CIS?); it also remind me SU.

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

I didn't know we had Morality manip.

May I add Resistence to https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Morality_Manipulation on Man thing profile?I had stated it in my CRT and rt but wasnt aware of the ability.(man thing is also mindless)

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

I agree. It's misleading and can come off as wank.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@The Tetro If one of Man Thing's ability specifically describes that he cannot have his morality changed (another way of saying that he can't be turned good nor evil), then he should be fine but other than that, it should be further discussed in a different thread and return to the main topic here.

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

Man thing doesn'thave any morality by himself.nor he is good nor evil

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Promestein.

I would appreciate help with adjusting the profiles that inaccurately list these abilities.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@The Tetro Okay then.

 

[Promestein]

There's not a lot of pages to change.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Feel free to adjust them then.

 

[Promestein]

The biggest issue this presents is the Madness Manipulation page, which has psychological manipulation as one of its types. All the Madness users would have to have their types adjusted. I can do that with AWB.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you very much for the help.