Variable tier for Hoopa?

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Hello everyone

Okay, now to start this, I recently rewatched the Hoopa movie in my spare time for not having anything better to do and while rewatching, i've come to be hit with a question i'd like to honestly ask. Now we have Hoopa currently listed as "At Least High 7-A", Can use hax to affect Low 2-C's. That is completely fine to have, don't get me wrong. But the thing I would like to know is....shouldnt Hoopa in any way, shape or form have a key for how strong he is depending on what he summons?

There are characters here who are rated as such and given this kind of treatment, Lucy Heartfilla being a perfect example for most of her stats and hax coming from her Celestial Spirits. Like Lucy, summoning other pokemon to aid him is Hoopas most profound common ability and is pretty much the basis of all of his powers aside from normal Psychic/Dark/Ghost abilities, literally. If we're going to accept Hoopa's use of summoning pokemon in vsbattles as legitimate, then I believe giving him a variable or specific tiers because of said summoning hax is fair, especially when he can control what he summons and make them his puppets.

IF this is okay, I propose we make changes like this:

1) Tier: Unknow | At least High 7-A, Varies depending on what he summons

or

2) Tier: Unknow | At least High 7-A, 6-C to 6-B when summoning Lugia | 6-A when summoning Reshiram/Zekrom/Kyurem | High 6-A when summoning Regigigas | At Least High 7-A when summoning Latias/Latios | At Least 5-C when summoning Groudon/Kyogre, Higher when summoning Rayquaza | At Least Low 2-C when summoning Dialga/Palkia/Giratina

Does anyone oppose this idea?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

bump

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

bump

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

This seems relatively fair. The second option i mean. I have also been wondering something. Do you remember Sheena & Damos from the Jewel of Life movie ? They have almost the same ability as Hoopa . They were also able to affect Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, and even Arceus ( Damos did it more than Sheena ) . Should they have a profile with the At least Low 2-C , likely 2-C hax stats ?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

This seems to be a great way to have his profile. The second option that is. And link to the profiles of the pokemon he summons for ease.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Agreed. I just always found it strange how we're able to accept him summoning and controlling legendaries to use as slaves but yet we never made Keys out of them despite doing it for other characters like Lucy and since summoning hax is Hoopa's speciality, it shouldnt be out of the question at least.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

bump

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Would Sheena and Damos be given the same treatement if they had profiles ? ( They have an similar power as Hoopa )

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I believe so and I wouldnt see why not. They too can summon and control the sealed creation trio so it makes sense. But thats for another discussion really.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I know it isn't . I was just wanting some clarification, because i was planning on personally creating the profiles for Damos & Sheena.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Ahh I see. My fault if I came across being rude.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

No it is fine Kukui.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Bump

 

[GameHearo266]

Makes enough sense to me. Though the 6-A (Not high) key should have "At least" given Black/White Kyurem. Also in SMD Hoopa can summon literally any Myth/Legend that has been befriended. Which includes Arceus, SMD Rayquaza, Mewtwo, and Deoxys. Both Confined and Unbound mind you.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Super Mystery Dungeon was always ridiculous. In fact,s hould we add that version as a key ?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Pokemon profiles are composite here. Though I'd say Hoopa being able to summon Arceus in SMD (unless Arceus let him summon him on purpose) as PIS since its riduclous to suggest the highest in the god tier can be forcibily called forth.

 

[NeoZex6399]

Makes enough sense to me. Though the 6-A (Not high) key should have "At least" given Black/White Kyurem. Also in SMD Hoopa can summon literally any Myth/Legend that has been befriended. Which includes Arceus, SMD Rayquaza, Mewtwo, and Deoxys. Both Confined and Unbound mind you.

It sounds like game mechanics...

 

[GameHearo266]

Never said it could actually control Arceus but nevertheless I'll concede. Still should a key for SMD Rayquaza/Mewtwo/Deoxys be in order?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I have no problems with that, but staff get the last word here.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Since spmd was brought up, what about Dark Matter, I don't think it has a profile, someone shoukd get on that if there isn't.

 

[GameHearo266]

Might wanna try the profile request thread and/or making a separate thread about that. Though I'm not against it having a profile.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Me neither. It is pretty powerful in the grand scheme of things.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I remember it was either tier 5 or tier 2 . Not exactly sure which one...

 

[Antvasima]

I will inform The real cal howard and Saikou The Lewd King about this thread.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I don't know... Give me time to think.

 

[Imaginym]

Makes enough sense to me. Though the 6-A (Not high) key should have "At least" given Black/White Kyurem. Also in SMD Hoopa can summon literally any Myth/Legend that has been befriended. Which includes Arceus, SMD Rayquaza, Mewtwo, and Deoxys. Both Confined and Unbound mind you.

Hopefully I'm reading this right. So.... If it isn't stated that Hoopa controls them & these are Legendaries the player "befriended", couldn't it be argued that as opposed to Hoopa having the power to forcefully summon & control Arceus, it could just be him sort of... requesting Arceus's help?

If Arceus is a friend of the player character & is willing to help when given a summon & request by Hoopa, I don't see why that isn't Arceus just being a pal & lending aid, as opposed to Hoopa overpowering the god tier.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Honestly was under the assumption of what Imaginym said when playing the game, thought it was more of a summoned a friend rather than mind controlling something akin to Arceus, plus Hoopa isnt bad in psmd.

 

[GameHearo266]

Like I said I conceded on the Arceus point. Besides I never said Hoopa could actually control it merely summon it.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yeah I'm fine with all the other Legendaries being controlled but for Arceus its either him being just a friend or its specifically PIS

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

So what about the unsealed forms of Palkia, Dialga, and Giratina ?

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Did Hoops ever control unsealed for me if them? Don't ever recall that, just the sealed forms in the movie.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I was talking about in Super Mystery Dungeon.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Still wouldn't matter, they aren't unsealed in psmd and once again he probably ain't mind controlling them, just summoning them via friendly.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Hoopa has only ever controlled the sealed trio to my knowledge (which we accept here), not unsealed (likely will not accept).

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Bump

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

bump

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

bump

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Did Hoopa actually reliably use the Legendaries in combat? I remember that he had to physically fight off some of them. If you can't control what you summon, it isn't really worthy of a separate tiering.

However if he did control them, I guess this would be fine.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

He commanded them several times to obey his will in the movie ( commanding them to attack together, each target a separate person, and several other examples ) . nevermind the games , which uses the same mechanic.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

The games are more like "dropping a legendary somewhere and let it do stuff" than anything resembling control.

But for the movie, it seems fine to me.