alright, have changed it accordingly, please confirm if its fine.
Literally the name of the type, Universal Independent Concepts
That is what differentiates them, because they are considered "independent of reality" in the way that even if you destroy the universe, which leads to all their manifestations/objects being destroyed, they won't be affected. In a similar manner, Spiritual Lifeforms are not affected by universal destruction, nor are they effected by the destruction of their manifested objects/their avatars.
we can talk about what context you don't understand.
I got the scan from Spiritual Lifeform Physiology page, they can travel to the End of Space-Time[scan in OP]
Spiritual Lifeforms can cross Worlds, which is already in their physiology profile
the only thing regarding that being added was that Worlds have different time axis and flow of time[scan in OP], and the manga-panel part.
This is just a nominal used for the type 1 concept, the page is self-explanatory.
No, this is only for concepts that govern reality on a universal+ scale, as I said it's just a nomenclature. Not every type 1 concept has to work on a universal scale, for example there could be a concept of life that would not disappear even if all life on earth disappeared and even if this concept does not work on a universal scale it is still a type 1 concept. Likewise, the reality governed by a concept may not be limited to the universal scale and this does not make it a type 1 concept, for example, the concept of the multiverse, disappearing when the entire multiverse is destroyed is still a type 2 concept even though it is not limited to the universal scale.
Literally Rimuru's statement in the manga, its a par distant future
Literally already in their physiology page if you even cared to look
Okay, now I can see time travel + interdimensional travel, but I would still like to say that Spiritual Lifeforms can only travel to the future as of these scans.
This is irrelevant to my argument
that's what is being proposed, I have removed[crossed] the immeasurable speed thing as DDM already clarified that this, although fitting, won't be mentioned separately on speed section as "immeasurable travel speed" is the same as time travel via movement, and not enough to be put on speed section as its own thing
your argument was this"
Your argument is that they need to show being independent of the entire "reality" they govern, that being more than L2-C
No, characters with immeasurable speed can travel to the past, but characters who only travel to the future in time cannot do this.
There is no proof that all Spiritual Life Forms can do this. Rimuru is already a True Dragon who shares the same nature as Veldanava, so as a type 1 concept, he is independent of the reality he govern.
the latter would still be imm speed if its done by movement[attack/combat] speed, maybe limited, because immeasurable speed is, by itself, "going around linear time by movement alone"
Rimuru in that panel literally just said "As a Spiritual Lifeform" at the start of the panel
What is meant here is to go beyond linear time with pure speed, and going beyond linear time gives you enough speed to reach any point in time. This is not something that can be described as limited.
Also, I misunderstood the scan here because of your comment, now that I look at it, it is said that Feldway's power is limited to destroying the Cardinal World, so even if Rimuru was not a True Dragon, he would still be a Spiritual Lifeform since Voice of the World / Law of World was not destroyed in the first place. He could survive as a multiversal concept.
So even if we consider the End of Space-Time to be the end of all branched space-time continuums that the Voice of the World contains, and Spiritual Lifeforms arriving there still does not mean that they are independent of the reality that govern by Voice of the World.
I'll add your vote
the speed part is something I cancelled because of DDM's clarification, so it won't really matter now xD
Oh sorry. I'm just giving my opinion based on your OP and not reading the comments below because I find them quite long and I'm a bit lazy
Valid there, I suppose, it was just my conc after reading that section on speed, but it was my understanding only, in the end
???
Also, I just noticed something. Spiritual Lifeforms are embodiments of the laws that govern the world, so why are you scaling them to the same range as the entirely of VOTW's range[the entire world/multiverse itself]?
np, no need to say sorry
I don't understand why you see it as obvious that "the World" here, despite the context, still refers to all the space-time continuums governed by the Voice of the World rather than the Cardinal World.
Because the Voice of the World is the one that governs all branched timelines (the different laws of each timeline). This means that all laws within branched timelines are part of a single system.
That I know, I think you're not getting me here. What I'm trying to say is, VOTW governs the whole multiverse, Cardinal world universe is one of the thing it governs. However, the "End of space and time" is not just the end of the cardinal world but "the world" itself. And given by the context, "The World" which Ciel witnessed being destroyed after the cardinal universe's destruction, seems to refer to the entire World.
it really does, but I was hoping for Ultima's revision to be over before making a thread for it, since it will effect it a lot.
This is really a bit complicated, there are different versions of Spirit Lifeforms in different timelines, but the Voice of the World does not allow two different Spirit Lifeforms to be in the same timeline and prevents all conflict, so the reality that Spirit Lifeforms govern is limited to their original timeline but different ones like Chloe If they travel to a timeline, the timeline they are in at that moment turns into a reality they govern. In other words, the Voice of the World / System somehow makes them dependent on the reality they govern.
The concept they embody is 2-A and the individual spirit is L2-C.
So basically their area of influence is limited to the timeline at once? If that's the case than I don't see the problem, because they can retain their form at EOST where the cardinal universe is destroyed. And if you read carefully, it actually says "we don't know what happened to that timeline, but when Ciel jumped, the whole thing was over", the "whole thing was over" refers to the destruction of that timeline/universe
they don't just embody a concept, they are a concept themselves [refer to OP first part for the scan]
Then the higher concept that is the source of their power is 2-A and not them. They are dependent on it to exist right ?
Technically yes, they are its embodiments, and a part separated from the whole thing.
A "World" can refer to many things, physical Worlds, spiritual worlds, a specific timeline, a collection of timelines, or, in some cases, the whole world[multiverse]
You need to add references.Alright, couldn't reply earlier as I was outside
Since the thread has been accepted by 2 staff members, I'll apply the changes now
alright
Have added references and applied the changes, except for this profile which is closed, could you open it, Elizhaa?
it was concluded Read discussion rule
You go get only 48 hours waiting.
Ah, forgot about that
uh, sorry bro, not to sound rude, but what are you trying to say? If you're saying along the lines of "you should request it on the all-purpose thread" than sure
