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That works for me.
alright, have changed it accordingly, please confirm if its fine.

Also, added Avatar Creation in [Others] section in the OP. Please check if its fine
Apologies for the inconvenience, I had forgotten to add this stuff when making the thread last night and just remembered now.
 
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I strongly disagree with the idea that Spiritual Lifeforms are a type 1 concept; there is nothing here that says that Spiritual Life Forms are independent of the reality governed by the concepts they embody. Type 1 concepts are independent of the entire reality they govern; in the case of Spiritual Life Forms, they govern the objects of the concepts they embody throughout the entire reality governed by the Laws of the World, that is, throughout the multiverse of infinite space-time continuums. Therefore, Spiritual Lifeforms other than the True Dragon Veldanava, which precedes the Multiverse, and possibly True Dragons who shared same nature, are not type 1 concepts.

Avatar creation is obvious.

About the rest: I really don't understand the context of this, I have some questions like which volume are these scans from and where is the part where Spiritual Lifeforms travel through time and where exactly is the part that says the time travel part depends on the Spiritual Lifeforms physiology.
 
I strongly disagree with the idea that Spiritual Lifeforms are a type 1 concept; there is nothing here that says that Spiritual Life Forms are independent of the reality governed by the concepts they embody. Type 1 concepts are independent of the entire reality they govern; in the case of Spiritual Life Forms, they govern the objects of the concepts they embody throughout the entire reality governed by the Laws of the World, that is, throughout the multiverse of infinite space-time continuums. Therefore, Spiritual Lifeforms other than the True Dragon Veldanava, which precedes the Multiverse, and possibly True Dragons who shared same nature, are not type 1 concepts.
Literally the name of the type, Universal Independent Concepts
Surviving universe destruction is enough, that's why even the mod agreed. So please check the definition itself before anything.
Additionally, surviving world destruction isn't the only way to achieve Type 1 conceptual nature. Surviving the destruction of all of their manifestations[objects] or being independent of them also is, which they are [OP].
1. Independent Universal Concepts: Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern, except maybe of other concepts of this nature. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the concept of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of their area of influence, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept.
That is what differentiates them, because they are considered "independent of reality" in the way that even if you destroy the universe, which leads to all their manifestations/objects being destroyed, they won't be affected. In a similar manner, Spiritual Lifeforms are not affected by universal destruction, nor are they effected by the destruction of their manifested objects/their avatars.

Avatar creation is obvious.

About the rest: I really don't understand the context of this,
we can talk about what context you don't understand.
I have some questions like which volume are these scans from and where is the part where Spiritual Lifeforms travel through time
I got the scan from Spiritual Lifeform Physiology page, they can travel to the End of Space-Time[scan in OP]
Spiritual Lifeforms can cross Worlds, which is already in their physiology profile
the only thing regarding that being added was that Worlds have different time axis and flow of time[scan in OP], and the manga-panel part.
 
Universal Independent Concepts
This is just a nominal used for the type 1 concept, the page is self-explanatory.
Surviving universe destruction is enough, that's why even the mod agreed.
No, this is only for concepts that govern reality on a universal+ scale, as I said it's just a nomenclature. Not every type 1 concept has to work on a universal scale, for example there could be a concept of life that would not disappear even if all life on earth disappeared and even if this concept does not work on a universal scale it is still a type 1 concept. Likewise, the reality governed by a concept may not be limited to the universal scale and this does not make it a type 1 concept, for example, the concept of the multiverse, disappearing when the entire multiverse is destroyed is still a type 2 concept even though it is not limited to the universal scale.

In addition, it is normal for staff to make mistakes when evaluating verses that they have no knowledge of.
 
Also currently, I definitely don't see anything about immeasurable speed here. Unless the time travel part is proven to be a physiological ability of Spiritual Lifeforms, I don't agree with time travel. All I see from the scans is more interdimensional (multiversal scale) travel for Spiritual Lifeforms.
 
Also currently, I definitely don't see anything about immeasurable speed here.
Literally Rimuru's statement in the manga, its a par distant future
Unless the time travel part is proven to be a physiological ability of Spiritual Lifeforms, I don't agree with time travel. All I see from the scans is more interdimensional (multiversal scale) travel for Spiritual Lifeforms.
Literally already in their physiology page if you even cared to look
 
This is just a nominal used for the type 1 concept, the page is self-explanatory.

No, this is only for concepts that govern reality on a universal+ scale, as I said it's just a nomenclature. Not every type 1 concept has to work on a universal scale, for example there could be a concept of life that would not disappear even if all life on earth disappeared and even if this concept does not work on a universal scale it is still a type 1 concept. Likewise, the reality governed by a concept may not be limited to the universal scale and this does not make it a type 1 concept, for example, the concept of the multiverse, disappearing when the entire multiverse is destroyed is still a type 2 concept even though it is not limited to the universal scale.

In addition, it is normal for staff to make mistakes when evaluating verses that they have no knowledge of.
The end of Space-Time is a point where the universe as well as The World itself has been destroyed, Ciel even watched it. Rimuru was sent to "Beyond Space and Time" where the universe had been destroyed, after that, he[Ciel] wandered around there until he reached the "End of Space-Time" where the World itself had been destroyed.
 
Okay, now I can see time travel + interdimensional travel, but I would still like to say that Spiritual Lifeforms can only travel to the future as of these scans.
that's what is being proposed, I have removed[crossed] the immeasurable speed thing as DDM already clarified that this, although fitting, won't be mentioned separately on speed section as "immeasurable travel speed" is the same as time travel via movement, and not enough to be put on speed section as its own thing
This is irrelevant to my argument
your argument was this"
I strongly disagree with the idea that Spiritual Lifeforms are a type 1 concept; there is nothing here that says that Spiritual Life Forms are independent of the reality governed by the concepts they embody. Type 1 concepts are independent of the entire reality they govern; in the case of Spiritual Life Forms, they govern the objects of the concepts they embody throughout the entire reality governed by the Laws of the World, that is, throughout the multiverse of infinite space-time continuums. Therefore, Spiritual Lifeforms other than the True Dragon Veldanava, which precedes the Multiverse, and possibly True Dragons who shared same nature, are not type 1 concepts.
Your argument is that they need to show being independent of the entire "reality" they govern, that being more than L2-C

Great Spirits are attributes, that laws that govern "The World", whereas Spiritual Lifeforms are their embodiments, Spiritual Lifeforms can retain their form at the end of Space-Time, that is the end of not only a single space-time/universe[cardinal world universe] but the entire world

Surviving destruction of the reality they govern is enough to show their independency
 
immeasurable travel speed" is the same as time travel via movement
No, characters with immeasurable speed can travel to the past, but characters who only travel to the future in time cannot do this.
Spiritual Lifeforms can retain their form at the end of Space-Time, that is the end of not only a single space-time/universe[cardinal world universe] but the entire world

Surviving destruction of the reality they govern is enough to show their independency
There is no proof that all Spiritual Life Forms can do this. Rimuru is already a True Dragon who shares the same nature as Veldanava, so as a type 1 concept, he is independent of the reality he govern.
 
No, characters with immeasurable speed can travel to the past, but characters who only travel to the future in time cannot do this.
the latter would still be imm speed if its done by movement[attack/combat] speed, maybe limited, because immeasurable speed is, by itself, "going around linear time by movement alone"
There is no proof that all Spiritual Life Forms can do this. Rimuru is already a True Dragon who shares the same nature as Veldanava, so as a type 1 concept, he is independent of the reality he govern.
Rimuru in that panel literally just said "As a Spiritual Lifeform" at the start of the panel
 
going around linear time by movement alone"
What is meant here is to go beyond linear time with pure speed, and going beyond linear time gives you enough speed to reach any point in time. This is not something that can be described as limited.
Also, I misunderstood the scan here because of your comment, now that I look at it, it is said that Feldway's power is limited to destroying the Cardinal World, so even if Rimuru was not a True Dragon, he would still be a Spiritual Lifeform since Voice of the World / Law of World was not destroyed in the first place. He could survive as a multiversal concept.

Therefore, even this statement does not meet the requirements for a type 1 concept.
So even if we consider the End of Space-Time to be the end of all branched space-time continuums that the Voice of the World contains, and Spiritual Lifeforms arriving there still does not mean that they are independent of the reality that govern by Voice of the World.
As a result, we again come back to the idea that Veldanava, the creator of Voice of the World / Law of World, and other True Dragons who share the same nature are a type 1 concept.
 
Hmm, I think the type 1 concept looks okay. Because the nature of Spiritual Lifeforms is to embody them, they are not actually those concepts. What are actually the concepts that govern the world are the laws of world so it is understandable that they could leave their world. The time travel part looks good.

As for the speed part, I'll probably answer tomorrow.
 
Hmm, I think the type 1 concept looks okay. Because the nature of Spiritual Lifeforms is to embody them, they are not actually those concepts. What are actually the concepts that govern the world are the laws of world so it is understandable that they could leave their world. The time travel part looks good.
I'll add your vote
As for the speed part, I'll probably answer tomorrow.
the speed part is something I cancelled because of DDM's clarification, so it won't really matter now xD
 
What is meant here is to go beyond linear time with pure speed, and going beyond linear time gives you enough speed to reach any point in time. This is not something that can be described as limited.
Valid there, I suppose, it was just my conc after reading that section on speed, but it was my understanding only, in the end :D
Also, I misunderstood the scan here because of your comment, now that I look at it, it is said that Feldway's power is limited to destroying the Cardinal World, so even if Rimuru was not a True Dragon, he would still be a Spiritual Lifeform since Voice of the World / Law of World was not destroyed in the first place. He could survive as a multiversal concept.
???
Feldway sent him to "Beyond space and time" where he had destroyed the only cardinal world, after that, "time passed, and they reached the end of space-time where The World had ended". So clearly, here, the cardinal world wasn't the only thing that was destroyed.
So even if we consider the End of Space-Time to be the end of all branched space-time continuums that the Voice of the World contains, and Spiritual Lifeforms arriving there still does not mean that they are independent of the reality that govern by Voice of the World.
Also, I just noticed something. Spiritual Lifeforms are embodiments of the laws that govern the world, so why are you scaling them to the same range as the entirely of VOTW's range[the entire world/multiverse itself]?
As a result, we again come back to the idea that Veldanava, the creator of Voice of the World / Law of World, and other True Dragons who share the same nature are a type 1 concept.
 
Feldway sent him to "Beyond space and time" where he had destroyed the only cardinal world, after that, "time passed, and they reached the end of space-time where The World had ended". So clearly, here, the cardinal world wasn't the only thing that was destroyed
I don't understand why you see it as obvious that "the World" here, despite the context, still refers to all the space-time continuums governed by the Voice of the World rather than the Cardinal World.
Also, I just noticed something. Spiritual Lifeforms are embodiments of the laws that govern the world, so why are you scaling them to the same range as the entirely of VOTW's range[the entire world/multiverse itself]?
Because the Voice of the World is the one that governs all branched timelines (the different laws of each timeline). This means that all laws within branched timelines are part of a single system.
 
I don't understand why you see it as obvious that "the World" here, despite the context, still refers to all the space-time continuums governed by the Voice of the World rather than the Cardinal World.


Because the Voice of the World is the one that governs all branched timelines (the different laws of each timeline). This means that all laws within branched timelines are part of a single system.
That I know, I think you're not getting me here. What I'm trying to say is, VOTW governs the whole multiverse, Cardinal world universe is one of the thing it governs. However, the "End of space and time" is not just the end of the cardinal world but "the world" itself. And given by the context, "The World" which Ciel witnessed being destroyed after the cardinal universe's destruction, seems to refer to the entire World.

Also, once again, Spiritual Lifeforms are the "embodiments of the laws of the world", they are not the laws themselves
Also, Laws of the world refer to the great spirits, it doesn't refer to the VOTW/World Language, at least not in this scan. So why are we assuming normal Spiritual lifeforms, that are far far lesser than the VOTW, will have the same range[area of influence that defines the "Reality" they govern] as the the whole cosmology when they are only embodiments of the actual thing? Because if that's the case that'd mean Spiritual lifeforms have 2-A range as a concept
 
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Because if that's the case that'd mean Spiritual lifeforms have 2-A range as a concept
This is really a bit complicated, there are different versions of Spirit Lifeforms in different timelines, but the Voice of the World does not allow two different Spirit Lifeforms to be in the same timeline and prevents all conflict, so the reality that Spirit Lifeforms govern is limited to their original timeline but different ones like Chloe If they travel to a timeline, the timeline they are in at that moment turns into a reality they govern. In other words, the Voice of the World / System somehow makes them dependent on the reality they govern.
 
This is really a bit complicated, there are different versions of Spirit Lifeforms in different timelines, but the Voice of the World does not allow two different Spirit Lifeforms to be in the same timeline and prevents all conflict, so the reality that Spirit Lifeforms govern is limited to their original timeline but different ones like Chloe If they travel to a timeline, the timeline they are in at that moment turns into a reality they govern. In other words, the Voice of the World / System somehow makes them dependent on the reality they govern.
The concept they embody is 2-A and the individual spirit is L2-C.
 
This is really a bit complicated, there are different versions of Spirit Lifeforms in different timelines, but the Voice of the World does not allow two different Spirit Lifeforms to be in the same timeline and prevents all conflict, so the reality that Spirit Lifeforms govern is limited to their original timeline but different ones like Chloe If they travel to a timeline, the timeline they are in at that moment turns into a reality they govern. In other words, the Voice of the World / System somehow makes them dependent on the reality they govern.
So basically their area of influence is limited to the timeline at once? If that's the case than I don't see the problem, because they can retain their form at EOST where the cardinal universe is destroyed. And if you read carefully, it actually says "we don't know what happened to that timeline, but when Ciel jumped, the whole thing was over", the "whole thing was over" refers to the destruction of that timeline/universe

And this just makes it more clearer, because what this thread is trying for is not a specific SLF like Chloe but SLFs in general.

Now I'm beginning to think it'd be better if I just make a cosmology thread after this......
 
they don't just embody a concept, they are a concept themselves [refer to OP first part for the scan]
its like, they are a concept themselves while embodying a higher one
Then the higher concept that is the source of their power is 2-A and not them. They are dependent on it to exist right ?

What is the world in Tensura?
 
Then the higher concept that is the source of their power is 2-A and not them. They are dependent on it to exist right ?
Technically yes, they are its embodiments, and a part separated from the whole thing.
What is the world in Tensura?
A "World" can refer to many things, physical Worlds, spiritual worlds, a specific timeline, a collection of timelines, or, in some cases, the whole world[multiverse]
you should refer to the cosmology explanation page for this, although it needs revisions, I think it'll get the basic idea through
 
Alright, couldn't reply earlier as I was outside
Since the thread has been accepted by 2 staff members, I'll apply the changes now 🙏🙂
 
Have added references and applied the changes, except for this profile which is closed, could you open it, Elizhaa?
And this thread can be closed
it was concluded Read discussion rule
For content revision suggestions, generally, a standard grace period of 48 hours should be allowed for the reviewing staff members to evaluate and approve them. However, in the case of extremely blatant, self-evident revisions, a grace period of 24 hours is acceptable. Until this grace period has elapsed, since the time of the thread's creation, the revision should not be applied to the profiles.
You go get only 48 hours waiting.
I'm yours is too threads support Content moderator
Here
 
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