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Updating Pokemon Statistics

Darkrai has scaling to Mewtwo and Deoxys posted above, so saying "he does nothing but fight the Creation Trio" is false.

A 5 second collision is not scaling. Far from it. And I very much want to know how the span of an entire battle that showcases Darkrais actual full power is less valuable then an instance that’s barely even considered a fight.
Also, the fact Darkrai is pretty obviously weaker than them to the point he was killed after lasting only a little while when they weren't even fighting at full power puts your whole scaling heavily in doubt.
No, it just means Darkrai downscales from their 2-B. Which is what the argument is trying to point out.
 
It's easily calcable, 9-A to 8-C, issue is I'm not so sure how eager you'd be to apply it the the profiles, that Karp is a beast among karps, not exactly the standard.
Yeah I don't think it'll make it to the profiles, its a top tier Magikarp seemingly due to its training.

I'll respond to the god tier Darkrai stuff later.
 
Darkrai has scaling to Mewtwo and Deoxys posted above, so saying "he does nothing but fight the Creation Trio" is false. Also, the fact Darkrai is pretty obviously weaker than them to the point he was killed after lasting only a little while when they weren't even fighting at full power puts your whole scaling heavily in doubt.
Deoxys fought Palkia and mewtwo definitely would destroy the creation trio, if you disagree we can debate in voice chat on discord
 
Agree with everything so far.

For Darkrai issues, as far as I know his feats are : fighting Palkia/Dialga (movie), doing a weird thing to a whole region (Rangers 2) and fighting deoxys/mewtwo (manga).

His feats are p much changing every second in term of power.
 
Maybe I’m a “Pokémon noob” but who’s to say all Darkrai scale to one another?

the Darkrai in the movie is clearly stronger than Tobias’ Darkrai (clearly Tobias didn’t IV/EV train his Pokémon 😂).

I understand the need to compile all magikarp into 1 profile, however, each legendary only has a handful of showings, I don’t see why they need to be compiled.

if the wiki has a 2-B Lucario and a mountain level Lucario (or whatever the normal one is), I don’t see why the distinct character “Darkrai” from the movie (because he more or less is his own character compared to other Darkrai) can’t have his own profile/tab.
 
Maybe I’m a “Pokémon noob” but who’s to say all Darkrai scale to one another?

the Darkrai in the movie is clearly stronger than Tobias’ Darkrai (clearly Tobias didn’t IV/EV train his Pokémon 😂).

I understand the need to compile all magikarp into 1 profile, however, each legendary only has a handful of showings, I don’t see why they need to be compiled.

if the wiki has a 2-B Lucario and a mountain level Lucario (or whatever the normal one is), I don’t see why the distinct character “Darkrai” from the movie (because he more or less is his own character compared to other Darkrai) can’t have his own profile/tab.
nah bro 2-B ash pikachu time
 
I also find 2-B Lucario dumb tho.

Also species are all put in same profile and I don't think there's really a lot of Darkrai roaming around in the world.
 
Lucario actually needs to be downgraded. His downgrade was agreed on sometime ago but it was never carried out for some reason.

Either way, his downgrade from 2-B was agreed on so he shouldn’t even be a factor in this discussion in the first place.
 
For Darkrai issues, as far as I know his feats are : fighting Palkia/Dialga (movie), doing a weird thing to a whole region (Rangers 2) and fighting deoxys/mewtwo (manga).

His feats are p much changing every second in term of power.
My problem with this argument is that the latter is hardly even able to be considered a fight in the first place as opposed to what he did against Dialga and Palkia.

First, that confrontation in the manga lasted no more than literally 5 seconds. Our site has never stooped low enough to a point where we accept scaling from extremely shorted and brief brawls like this one where it may not be considered viable enough realistically.

Second, it’s debatable on whether or not this was even a clash of power. Darkrai’s “attack” against Deoxys, that’s Mewtwo intercepted, petrified the Pokédex holders as a result. Arguably, you could say Darkrai unleashed simply some hax attack that petrifies the opponent, which if going by that route, makes this confrontation that’s already very shady even shadier. But if not, the first issue still holds.

Meanwhile, Rise of Darkrai gives a much more contextual, consistent and indicative portrayal of Darkrais tier as its not just some small brief confrontation that can be passed off. It is a full battle where it gives us an actual strong, clear and blatant basis of Darkrais power, his limits, and where he stands overall. He’s strong enough to harm Dialga and Palkia, can tank their attacks, and fend them off with his own. But he isn’t strong enough to get them to use their full power, can only last against them for a decent time and ultimately got killed. Bam. Downscaled 2-B scaling that gives him a tier with several scaling feats and still makes him weaker than them, so it conflicts with nothing.

The movie fight gives far more details, context and portrayal than the manga, we have no reason to disregard the former in favor of the latter.
 
Since I'm sure you're not asking if PokéSpe is canon, could you tell us what series exactly are you talking about?
 
It’s pretty much the same exact thing as the Adventures manga, following the story with Team Plasma, their goals, and so on and so forth (and adventures is definitely accepted as canon)

That alone would cement Adventure as canon.
 
That alone would cement Adventure as canon.

That really isnt how it works. You cant just take something that's "loosely" based on the games and say it's canon. Adventures is canon for reasons besides following the games slightly. Not that it matters, there's only a single good feat in the manga and a huge anti-feat, but that doesnt make it canon or noncanon. It's noncanon unless proven otherwise.
 
What's the anti-feat?
Like two dozen Psychic Pokemon including Pokemon like Metagross needing to combine their powers to stop a galactic bomb, when normally, just the Metagross would have been enough or even a few of the other pokemon that helped. (And yes, it was outright said that it would have failed alone).
 
I mean, you having him on ignore doesn't change the fact he's right.
He kinda isnt.

Evidence from it being exactly the same as a major plot point in the source material isn’t “loose evidence” and is just downplaying what the evidence actually is by personal interpretation

It gives us a reason to consider it canon. And you can’t claim otherwise without something to actually counter that.
 
And you can’t claim otherwise without something to actually counter that.
I mean, I do have something to claim otherwise, that our canon standards don't work like that. We don't assume the Naruto anime is canon for following the manga closely, so that in particular isn't an argument for canonicity.
 
And honestly, I’m also going to making a thread for how we will be dealing with canon material here when I get the chance to. Just to give this heads up.

Because we have this mixed mentality of “what follows” and “what doesn’t follow” the canon of something when canon isn’t treated the same across fiction
 
I mean, I do have something to claim otherwise, that our canon standards don't work like that. We don't assume the Naruto anime is canon for following the manga closely, so that in particular isn't an argument for canonicity.
Using other verses isn’t an argument when they don’t work the same as this one.

Naruto isn’t Pokemon and neither is any other verse you can name via whatboutism.
 
Using other verses isn’t an argument when they don’t work the same as this one.
Using other verses isn't an argument. Using the site standards, on the other hand, is, and you seem to ignore that we don't assume "it follows closely the plot of another part of the franchise" as evidence for canon.
 
Just gonna say this now that I have you on “ignore” so you are pretty much wasting your time trying to address anything to me.
Yes, because that's how this works. Imagine ignoring people completely on the grounds that they simply disagree with your point of view.

And doesn't matter. You can't take absolutely everything that's licensed to be of the same canon, literally not how it works, and yes, even for Pokemon.
The only things that are honestly 100% canon to the games is the anime, even adventures is walking an extremely thin line.

Simply sharing something or being based on the main games doesn't make something canon, it makes it an adaption. Which is what they are, of course they're going to adhere to some established lore and plot points if they're making an adaption of something, that's common sense?

Anime is legit (I'm gonna also toss snap in here because of that one episode and it being tied to the anime seemingly directly), adventures is barely legit but only barely, TCG? Kinda canon but not in the way we treat it, everything else? Extreme case by case. Need actual evidence for them.

This is off topic for this thread anyway, but you gotta stop acting like if it's licensed it's probably canon.
 
Using other verses isn't an argument. Using the site standards, on the other hand, is, and you seem to ignore that we don't assume "it follows closely the plot of another part of the franchise" as evidence for canon.
For verses with no specific or unique canonicity standards maybe. But not so much for a verse that has the common trend of treating alternate canons as canon to each other and do not sit under that standard the same way.

Either way, if this is in our standards then I will be making a thread to get this changed (somewhat) for like I said above.
 
I mean, sure, make a thread to change the standards if you want, since you're free to do so. Until then, your argument is bunk.
 
For verses with no specific or unique canonicity standards maybe. But not so much for a verse that has the common trend of treating alternate canons as canon to each other and do not sit under that standard the same way.

Pokemon doesn't even do that though. That's literally only the case for the anime and MAYBE the manga and even the manga barely edges by. That's not common given Pokemon ***** out a manga every other Tuesday or a spin-off bi-yearly. Hell you just said it yourself "alternate canons". That's what they are, they're simply alternate canons.
Being licensed doesn't mean canon.

Make your thread I guess but you best bring actual hard statements confirming mass media canonicity or for some verses like PMD or Blast or something to actually be canon.
 
Stuff being non-canon till proven is just common knowledge tbh.

Also the "specific/unique canonicity" is like rare af and I don't think we should make exceptions like this to begin with.
 
Stuff being non-canon till proven is just common knowledge tbh.

Also the "specific/unique canonicity" is like rare af and I don't think we should make exceptions like this to begin with.
I disagree. As I said above, “canon” isn’t a 1 to 1 thing that’s exactly the same across the board. A verse can have source material and how it treats their respective series be drastically different from what another verse and their canon does. Not just Pokémon and what it does/doesn’t do, but in general. Canon should be much more of a case by case concept than simply making an umbrella standard to effect everything exactly the same way.

If it’s different (which it can), then it cannot be treated the same way as something else.

And obviously my point isn’t saying to just accept everything blindly, but rather, the how and what of proving something canon differs across verses and shouldn’t be looked at the same way.
 
I mean, we don't even have a single series on the wiki where we accept everything is canon. The closests to these are the Nasuverse (due to constant interaction of characters between them, referecing other series' events, and Nasu's detailed explanation of how timeline works) and Digimon (which has a lot truck load of evidence to support is connection), and even then, we don't accept everything on them as canon (Digimon has tons of comics we explicity ignore due to who and how they're make, and the Nasuverse simply having multiple entries that have nothing to support their canonity).
 
Like, that's fair. But Pokemon still needs to prove certain things are indeed canon to the mainline games. And it isn't as widespread as you're insinuating.

Either way, off topic now. Best to save this for another thread.
 
Except that when it's just how it works, it's how it works. If water's wet, it'll always be wet.

But yeah enough derailing.
 
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