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Upcoming champs that achieved world championships against all odds (WWE vs Punch-Out)

CBslayeR said:
the ap advantage is only 2x
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RandomGuy2345 said:
The link I showed you of The Undertaker using his lightning on The New Day shows that he uses it in character.

Even then, this might be a AP stomp.

Cena is comparable to The Undertaker, who can survive crashing through 3 tables, which is equivalent to 932.1 Kilojoules, using the the amount of energy required to destroy a rectangular table multiplied by 3.

Little Mac's AP is only 117 Kilojoules iirc.
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RandomGuy2345 said:
The link I showed you of The Undertaker using his lightning on The New Day shows that he uses it in character.

Even then, this might be a AP stomp.

Cena is comparable to The Undertaker, who can survive crashing through 3 tables, which is equivalent to 932.1 Kilojoules, using the the amount of energy required to destroy a rectangular table multiplied by 3.

Little Mac's AP is only 117 Kilojoules iirc.
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Even if we lowball this and say that The Undertaker went through 2 tables simultaneously, which he did, then that means the force would be 621.4 Kilojoules.

Little Mac's AP is 117 Kilojoules, so a roughly 5.3x AP difference.

Not sure what Little Mac can do to significantly harm Cena here.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
The link I showed you of The Undertaker using his lightning on The New Day shows that he uses it in character.

Even then, this might be a AP stomp.

Cena is comparable to The Undertaker, who can survive crashing through 3 tables, which is equivalent to 932.1 Kilojoules, using the the amount of energy required to destroy a rectangular table multiplied by 3.

Little Mac's AP is only 117 Kilojoules iirc.
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This is an AP stomp. This is roughly an 8x AP difference.
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
Doesn’t Mac’s Lifting Strength advantage put Cena at a massive disadvantage? Wrestling techniques against someone he can’t grapple
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some of his techniques rely on the momentum of him picking up his opponent or what he gains from grabbing onto the rope so even those shown to be stronger than him in LS such as the big show can be grappled by him
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Even if we lowball this and say that The Undertaker went through 2 tables simultaneously, which he did, then that means the force would be 621.4 Kilojoules.

Little Mac's AP is 117 Kilojoules, so a roughly 5.3x AP difference.

Not sure what Little Mac can do to significantly harm Cena here.
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His punchs still will cause harm sinse isn't a 7x diference, and he can still slowly chip cena "HP" down seeing he is know to just dodge every thing and atack
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Speed is equal, though. Plus, Cena is used to wrestlers who are very elusive (Rey Mysterio).
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And? This is kinda the same xenario mac work in his fights, dodging cena moves shouldn't be to dificult, especially with how big of "start up" they have like running to the ropes of the ring

And I doubt Rey Mysterio is as evasive as mac sinse his hole thing is that he is a light weight fighting heavy weight champions
 
JustANormalLemon said:
And? This is kinda the same xenario mac work in his fights, dodging cena moves shouldn't be to dificult, especially with how big of "start up" they have like running to the ropes of the ring

And I doubt Rey Mysterio is as evasive as mac sinse his hole thing is that he is a light weight fighting heavy weight champions
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Rey Mysterio is a Cruiserweight fighting Super Heavyweights on a regular basis.
 
If this isn’t a stomp I’m voting Cena for a huge AP advantage, and people are sleeping on how useful that home turf advantage will be, Little Mac has dealt with some crazy stuff but idk if he’s dealing with Cena lunging at him from the Top Ropes after dazing him with a few punches, it’s not entirely in character for Cena to do that stuff but he certainly can and has turned to it before as an option
 
Honestly, the AP difference shouldn't be as big as it's being mentioned in this thread. Even assuming the Undertaker went through 3 tables at once (he really didn't, as the tables were stacked, as opposed to being, say directly laying on top of each other, or the tables themselves being 3 tables thick), he was knocked out from that.

Don Flamenco's feat (whom Little Mac scales to) was incredibly casual, as he was barely even paying attention to the Bull. Not only that, but Little Mac has defeated Mr. Sandman twice, who stomped Don Flamenco, so he definitely is no stranger to defeating opponents who are physically much bigger and stronger than he is.

Even considering the AP advantage, it is mitigated by Little Mac's Star Punches, which do heavy damage even to the previously mentioned Mr. Sandman. Little Mac mostly gets Star Punches from intercepting taunts, or attacks. Since Little Mac doesn't have issues with intercepting really fast punches, I don't see any reason he would have any issues with intercepting any charges from Cena, as Little Mac has dealt with stuff like that before. And Cena isn't grappling Little Mac anytime soon, considering their LS difference.

I'll vote Little Mac
 
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TheGatememer said:
Honestly, the AP difference shouldn't be all that big. Even assuming the Undertaker went through 3 tables at once (he really didn't, as the tables were stacked, as opposed to being, say directly laying on top of each other, or the tables themselves being 3 tables thick), he was knocked out from that.
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Even lowballing it, if Undertaker went through 2 tables at once (which he definitely did), this would still put the force of the attack at 621.4 Kilojoules, compared to Mac's 117 Kilojoules, making it a 5.3x AP difference. Even then, Undertaker recovered from the attack in a few minutes, and SBA states that the opponent has to be knocked out for at least one hour in order for a win. Of course, Mac can increase his AP with Star Punches, but it's not enough to take Cena down.

TheGatememer said:
Don Flamenco's feat (whom Little Mac scales to) was incredibly casual, considering he was barely even paying attention to the Bull. Not only that, but Little Mac has defeated Mr. Sandman twice, who stomped Don Flamenco, so he definitely is no stranger to defeating opponents who are physically much bigger and stronger than he is.
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1. So he's >117 Kilojoules by an unknown extent, which still doesn't make the AP difference any lower. It's still at 5.3x.
2. Cena is no stranger to facing and defeating opponents who are stronger than him, The Big Show and The Great Khali being prime examples of this.

TheGatememer said:
Even considering the AP advantage, it is mitigated by Little Mac's Star Punches, which do heavy damage even to the previously mentioned Mr. Sandman. Little Mac mostly gets Star Punches from intercepting taunts, or attacks. Considering Little Mac doesn't have issues with intercepting really fast punches, I don't see any reason he would have any issues with intercepting any charges from Cena, as Little Mac has dealt with stuff like that before.
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Cena can tank those attacks without much issue. Plus, he can always... ya know, dodge Mac's attacks? You're also forgetting that this is Cena's home turf, and Cena is really good at using the environment around him to gain an advantage in a matchup. He can find weapons under the ring to gain the upper hand.

TheGatememer said:
And Cena isn't grappling Little Mac anytime soon, considering their LS difference.
Click to expand...
The Big Show and The Great Khali, 2 wrestlers who were depicted to be stronger than Cena (which includes LS as well), were grappled by Cena himself. LS doesn't matter.
 
Might I also mention that Cena has a far more versatile moveset than Little Mac as well?

Mac is just limited to regular boxing moves, while Cena has many different kinds of slams, powerbombs, submission moves, and much more.

Mac will sooner or later get overwhelmed by Cena's moveset, while Cena will quickly adapt to Mac's limited fighting style.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Might I also mention that Cena has a far more versatile moveset than Little Mac as well?

Mac is just limited to regular boxing moves, while Cena has many different kinds of slams, powerbombs, submission moves, and much more.

Mac will sooner or later get overwhelmed by Cena's moveset, while Cena will quickly adapt to Mac's limited fighting style.
Click to expand...
Little Mac's whole gimmick is adapting to his opponents patterns and tells, he's also fought people who straight up don't do boxing moves already so he should be fine in adapting to his style, and most of those moves won't work because its Class 25 vs Class 5. How does Little Mac get overwhelmed if half of Ceba's moves are ineffective against him and he's at a stamina disadvantage
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Even lowballing it, if Undertaker went through 2 tables at once (which he definitely did), this would still put the force of the attack at 621.4 Kilojoules, compared to Mac's 117 Kilojoules, making it a 5.3x AP difference. Even then, Undertaker recovered from the attack in a few minutes, and SBA states that the opponent has to be knocked out for at least one hour in order for a win.
Click to expand...
The point is that the Undertaker took a lot of damage from it. So it's not like Cena can tank, say a 1053 KJ attack without issue.
RandomGuy2345 said:
1. So he's >117 Kilojoules by an unknown extent, which still doesn't make the AP difference any lower. It's still at 5.3x.
Click to expand...
Yes it does? That AP value doesn't represent them at normal strength if they are clearly holding back.
RandomGuy2345 said:
Cena can tank those attacks without much issue.
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At 3 stars, Little Mac is dealing 9x damage, or a minimum of 1053 KJ, Cena isn't gonna tank that without any issue. Little Mac also has techniques that let him instantly knock down an opponent, especially with stars, including the previously mentioned Mr. Sandman.
RandomGuy2345 said:
Plus, he can always... ya know, dodge Mac's attacks? You're also forgetting that this is Cena's home turf, and Cena is really good at using the environment around him to gain an advantage in a matchup. He can find weapons under the ring to gain the upper hand.
Click to expand...
I doubt Cena can dodge many of Little Mac's attacks, since his attacks are fast for even Piston Hondo, who can punch really fast. The environment is pretty similar to what Little Mac is used to. If you mean that John Cena can use the ring to do moves like jumping onto Little Mac, its going to end badly, either due to Little Mac's superior LS, or this.
RandomGuy2345 said:
The Big Show and The Great Khali, 2 wrestlers who were depicted to be stronger than Cena (which includes LS as well), were grappled by Cena himself. LS doesn't matter.
Click to expand...
Neither of them have Class 25 LS as far as I'm aware, otherwise Cena himself would be Class 25. So it does matter, it means that Cena's grappling moves are useless against Little Mac.
 
CBslayeR said:
Little Mac's whole gimmick is adapting to his opponents patterns and tells, he's also fought people who straight up don't do boxing moves already so he should be fine in adapting to his style, and most of those moves won't work because its Class 25 vs Class 5. How does Little Mac get overwhelmed if half of Ceba's moves are ineffective against him and he's at a stamina disadvantage
Click to expand...
1. Cena will have a much easier time adapting to Mac's moveset than vice versa. Like I said, Mac has a very limiting moveset, while Cena has a far more versatile moveset that aren't just punches.
2. I already showed 2 examples of Cena grappling people who have higher LS than him (Big Show and Great Khali). You're just going to ignore that. Cena is used to fighting people with higher LS, and he knows how to find ways around it.
3. Mac's main weakness in this key is fatigue from taking too much damage, and considerng the AP gap here, it's only a matter of time before Mac gets worn out. Plus, for stamina, Cena was able to face Orton in a 60-minute Iron Man match, and he ended up winning. Mac's stamina just says Superhuman, with no evidence whatsoever.
 
TheGatememer said:
The point is that the Undertaker took a lot of damage from it. So it's not like Cena can tank, say a 1053 KJ attack without issue.
Click to expand...
He recovered in a few minutes, and considering that's 5.3x the value of Mac's regular punches, how would do this anything significant in the match. Mac will have to rely on his Star Punches to have any chance of significantly damaging Cena.

TheGatememer said:
Yes it does? That AP value doesn't represent them at normal strength if they are clearly holding back.
Click to expand...
But it doesn't show much stronger that person is than that value, so we just say that they're >than that value by an unknown amount. It's still a 5.3x difference. That's like saying a person who's >50 tons by an unknown amount can cause significant damage to someone who's 265 tons. Is that person casually 50 tons? Yes. But we do we know how much stronger that person is? No, we just say that person is >50 tons.


TheGatememer said:
At 3 stars, Little Mac is dealing 9x damage, or a minimum of 1053 KJ, Cena isn't gonna tank that without any issue. Little Mac also has techniques that let him instantly knock down an opponent, especially with stars, including the previously mentioned Mr. Sandman.
Click to expand...
Cena can just dodge those attacks. He has the common sense to know that he shouldn't just tank a punch. Mac isn't going to tank Cena's attacks without any issue, Mac only stands a chance with his Star Punches.


TheGatememer said:
I doubt Cena can dodge many of Little Mac's attacks, since his attacks are fast for even Piston Hondo, who can punch really fast. The environment is pretty similar to what Little Mac is used to. If you mean that John Cena can use the ring to do moves like jumping onto Little Mac, its going to end badly, either due to Little Mac's superior LS, or this
Click to expand...
Cena has fought and defeated people like Rey Mysterio, who is known for his very fast and elusive movements, which would make him a tough opponent to catch. Someone who can attack really fast is nothing new to Cena. I mean use his home turf to find weapons he can utilize under the ring, such as steel chairs, ladders, tables, kendo sticks, and much more. Once again, LS does not matter in this scenario, as I've already shown proof that Cena can grapple and submit people who have higher LS than him.


TheGatememer said:
Neither of them have Class 25 LS as far as I'm aware, otherwise Cena himself would be Class 25. So it does matter, it means that Cena's grappling moves are useless against Little Mac.
Click to expand...
Did you understand the point I'm making? Cena can grapple and submit people who have higher LS, even then, he has many ways of finding a way around the LS disadvantage. My point still stands.
 
CuteAnimeNekoGirl99 said:
well actually as of two minutes it got downgraded to 1.94 megajoules I believe that puts John Cena into one-shot territory
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No it doesn't.

It actually might make this a stomp now if it gets accepted.

1.94 megajoules is equivalent to 1940 Kilojoules, which is significantly higher than the value we already have, making this matchup a complete stomp.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
1. Cena will have a much easier time adapting to Mac's moveset than vice versa. Like I said, Mac has a very limiting moveset, while Cena has a far more versatile moveset that aren't just punches.
Click to expand...
It acctually works against cena, his moveset trough versatile have a bunch of "start lag" thanks to the more "show stile" of them, what makes his moveset much more easy to deal with them macs normal fast punchs(especialy sinse cena moves like bouncing of the ropes in the ring work similar to the atack partner of the foes mac faced)
 
JustANormalLemon said:
It acctually works against cena, his moveset trough versatile have a bunch of "start lag" thanks to the more "show stile" of them, what makes his moveset much more easy to deal with them macs normal fast punchs(especialy sinse cena moves like bouncing of the ropes in the ring work similar to the atack partner of the foes mac faced)
Click to expand...
Not like it matters now.
 
So by the looks of it, Cena has a huge AP advantage, a fighting area he can take much greater advantage of, and their LS is probably about to become around even which gives him unrestrained access to his grapples etc. This is a stomp right now, maybe put the fight somewhere other than a wrestling/boxing ring and give Little Mac prior knowledge?
 
Pikaman said:
So by the looks of it, Cena has a huge AP advantage, a fighting area he can take much greater advantage of, and their LS is probably about to become around even which gives him unrestrained access to his grapples etc. This is a stomp right now, maybe put the fight somewhere other than a wrestling/boxing ring and give Little Mac prior knowledge?
Click to expand...
Cena literally one shots.
 
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