Universe level Standards

[VenomElite]

I think low 2-C is fine as the 4-D beginner.

It really is. Unless for some reason we are supposed to believe that a timeline is above baseline 4D. There's not even any evidence on this wiki that is the case. I think that particular notion is severely overthinking what is supposed to be a system based on the concepts of geometric size with a hint of physics sprinkled on top.

 

[Sera_EX]

I think that particular notion is severely overthinking what is supposed to be a system based on the concepts of geometric size with a hint of physics sprinkled on top.

You have no idea... this whole thing is headache-inducing.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

You're right about overthinking it. It's like the 3-A vs low 2-C baseline argument again. It doesn't always matter what people think the universe is when fiction doesn't match with relativity.

 

[Pritti]

Limited 4D High 3-A is the equivalent of a Limited 5D 2-A Ó▓á_Ó▓á

 

[Sera_EX]

^^^

 

[The_Reclusive_One]

We shouldn't merge a High 3-A with any tier in that way. Instead:

*Perhaps 3-A should be Low 3-A (Observable Universe = Low Universe level)

*High 3-A becomes 3-A (Baseline Universe up to an infinite universe = Universe level)

*Low 2-C becomes High 3-A (4D space time continuum = High Universe level) because Tier 2 should just be Multiversal.

But, if you prefer Low 2-C over High 3-A, that's fine.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

 

[Elizhaa]

Limited 4D High 3-A is the equivalent of a Limited 5D 2-A Ó▓á_Ó▓á

Not really, the only reason limited 4-D is rated is because it is in the tiering system.

Other ratings would require a proper scaling. Otherwise, the rating is much lower or Unknown

 

[Sera_EX]

She's saying if Limited 4D is High 3-A in the system, why wouldn't there be a limited 5D 2-A, limited 6D High 2-A, limited 7D Low 1-C, etc. It's a tiering inconsistency. Ultima already gave the reason as to why it exists.

 

[Pritti]

Yeah, I wasn't being serious.

 

[Andytrenom]

@Sera But once again High 2-A is defined as 5-D and Low 1-C is defined as 6-D while low 2-C is defined as a timespace continuum

If you literally can't be 4-D and transcend 3-Ds without having the power to destroy a time space continuum, then yeah I guess it's fine. I still find this questionable as a rule, so I'll try to go what the reasonings were to justify and see how much they make sense.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

What if you can only destroy part of a timeline, and you do so through physical force?

 

[Sera_EX]

Unknown and Low 2-C respectively.

 

[VenomElite]

@Sera But once again High 2-A is defined as 5-D and Low 1-C is defined as 6-D while low 2-C is defined as a timespace continuum

If you literally can't be 4-D and transcend 3-Ds without having the power to destroy a time space continuum, then yeah I guess it's fine. I still find this questionable as a rule, so I'll try to go what the reasonings were to justify and see how much they make sense.

Where is the evidence that space time is not baseline 4D?

 

[Sera_EX]

@Andy

Limited 4D makes no sense as High 3-A. Time is the fourth dimension for us and therefore any abilities that are 4D (aka time) that are less than universal in scale should be treated as hax only.

If you're referring to four spatial dimensions as "limited 4D" that's incorrect. 4 spatial dimensions is > 3 spatial dimensions obviously, and ask yourself this: Doesn't 4=4??

Hypervolume = 4D. Space time = 3+1D (4D)

Putting physics on the side, why shouldn't these be the same tier?

I literally said this an hour ago.

 

[The_Reclusive_One]

Y'all are really overthinking the limited 4D stuff. Just because the tier system didn't say baseline 4D is a timeline doesn't mean it isn't. Limited 4D isn't even the same thing as "just being 4D". It's literally described as "less than universal in scale", which is just hax.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

What if partial timeline-busting is done through punching?

 

[Sera_EX]

Has anyone actually even done that before? I'm not a fan of tiering based off an uncommon if not nonexistent feat.

Again, Dlanor A. Knox is Unknown for destroying small localizations of space time, so similar feats should also be Unknown.

 

[VenomElite]

Some wikis classify that kind of stuff as Inconclusive, because you really can't tier them. I suggest either following this example and making an Inconclusive tier or just categorized under Unknown as an umbrella term.

 

[Sera_EX]

I wish we were more basic and flexible like that, rather than being so rigid and cold-calculated.

 

[Hellbeast1]

^^ it's also possible to rate it as unquantifiable hax ala Superman

 

[Andytrenom]

@Ven Mind telling me why the the burden of proof isn't on the person saying "baseline 4-D is a time space continuum"

@Sera It's not about time based abilities on a non universal scale. It's about characters who transcend 3-Ds by being 4-D and characters who view 3-Ds as fiction but never show the capability to destroy a timeline or timespace continuum. Ultima did give his own argument addressing this which convinced me at the time but I am a bit more doubtful of right now.

 

[VenomElite]

@Andy

From the Tier System page:

High Universe level: Characters who have an infinite degree of 3-dimensional power. Alternately 4-dimensional power that is shown as completely qualitatively superior to 3-Dimensional beings, but is less than universal in scale. Or that allows them to create large parts of a universal continuum. Take note that 4-D power should logically always be superior to countably infinite 3-D power, so characters within this tier are not necessarily comparable. Also take note that we consider most small scale time-space abilities as hax, not as AP.

Four-dimensional characters/power that can't affect a timeline is literally Limited 4D. Baseline 4D should start at timelines.

According to the dimension page:

"Time is generally considered the fourth dimension".

 

[Sera_EX]

Andy you still ignore how if a timeline is considered to be above infinite 3D because it's 4D then all 4D should be above infinite 3D. Putting them in the same tier is freaking ridiculous, for all that put the Limited 4D crap in Low 2-C where it belongs and just transfer the note that those affecting timelines are considered superior in scale. Because at least both are 4D rather than putting limited 4D with freaking infinite 3D.

 

[The_Reclusive_One]

Limited 4D can just be th lower bound of Low 2-C rather than an alternative bound for High 3-A.

And seriously the thread's filling up and Sera said she isn't making another one for discussion so let's move onto whether or not Ven's suggestion should be what we use, which imo we should.

 

[Sera_EX]

We have massive issues when it comes to 4D, I'm not even kidding around it's freaking ridiculous!

 

[VenomElite]

Keep in mind that Matt and Azzy said merged that part of High 3-A to Low 2-C, which is what Reclusive reiterates now. I think only Agnaa has issues with that but for a different reason.

 

[Andytrenom]

@Ven A dimension is a parameter of measuring something, no specific object can be a "dimension" because that just doesn't make sense.

Time is generally considered the 4th dimension i'm pretty sure means "time is another axis which can be used to define the position or size of an object" not "A timeline is the starting point of 4-D structures and anything smaller is just limited not true 4-D"

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Hit possess a personal dimension created with the skipped time Hit stores upon using Time-Skip over the entire course of his existence. It's some kind of 4-D but what does it mean? Is this a case of limited 4-D or just 4-D? He's been doing it for centuries so, like I said before, what does it mean?

^ Stuff like this are issues that should be resolved unless I'm missing something.

 

[VenomElite]

The spacetime continuum is four-dimensional, three spatial and one temporal. It's size geometrically speaking for our simplistic purpose should be equivocal to 4D hypervolume, which is four spatial dimensions.

You are the one mentioning "they can't destroy the timeline". My point is they shouldn't have to in the first place.

 

[Andytrenom]

Andy you still ignore how if a timeline is considered to be above infinite 3D because it's 4D then all 4D should be above infinite 3D. Putting them in the same tier is freaking ridiculous,

Is it also "freaking ridiculous" to include 10-Ds and 11-Ds in the same tier even though one is infinitely above the other?

 

[Sera_EX]

Andy, time is literally what you just described. A parameter of measuring something. Time is literally a dimension. To be specific, a temporal dimension. It's 4D in relation to our 3D universe.

 

[The_Reclusive_One]

@Zamasu

Hit's dimension is a pocket space.

 

[Sera_EX]

The only reason 10 and 11D share the same tier is because String Theory is 10-11D.

 

[Read_this_post]

I wonder, why isn't 7D low complex multiversal? I thought it was for so long

 

[Sera_EX]

This is why I specifically asked we hold off on that until Ultima's revision is done.

The point of this is supposed to be about the observable universe, the universe, and the space time continuum.

 

[Andytrenom]

@Sera My point is that one portion of a tier being infinitely above another isnt a problem so infinite 3-Ds and non timeline level 4-Ds being in the same tier is also similary not a real problem.

 

[Sera_EX]

No because unlike 10 and 11D which are related under the same definition of String Theory, Infinite 3D is unrelated to Limited 4D. Ultima explained it just fine.

This whole thing just puts even more hate on dimensional tiering.

 

[Pritti]

Can we please get back on track? Jeez...

 

[Andytrenom]

Andy, time is literally what you just described. A parameter of measuring something. Time is literally a dimension. To be specific, a temporal dimension. It's 4D in relation to our 3D universe.

Time as an axis is a dimension, time as an object that you can blow up or break apart I don't think is a dimension.

 

[Pritti]

Why did you repost the same thing?