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Previous thread here.
The lightning isn't real, and should not be given speeds of cloud-to-ground lightning or even electricity. This has previously gone on and off profiles over the years, I'd like it to be done once and for all. Removing the ratings, reverting characters to Supersonic/Supersonic+, removing the note saying this one (and the exceedingly similar Mettaton feat) are accepted from the verse page, and adding a discussion rule against it, since imo the arguments aren't substantially changing each time; it's just getting accepted by different staff members that weren't there for previous times it was discussed.
Part of my counter-arguments are based on how Frisk's soul is accepted as being ~43 cm wide, and how that's accepted for scaling to the sizes and distances of attacks.
One can see a visual of this attack here.
This attack doesn't involve real lightning as:
Vulkin says "Thunder!" before this attack. It comes from a cloud.
Because these attacks are themed off of lightning. It's unsurprising that a goofy RPG monster also says things in line with that. There are many fictional things that take some theming from real-world phenomena, while acting completely differently. We should not let their style overturn the substance.
Some other magic attacks in Undertale clearly correspond to their real-world counterparts, by persisting in that way afterwards.
Not everything from a magic system is inherently equally real. One character being able to create ice and it being real does not mean that another character creating a black hole has to be legit; they're different abilities that should be judged on their own adherence to reality. Mettaton's bombs being unrealistic by only exploding in the four cardinal directions has not managed to disprove the usability every other magic attack in the game, I would not expect the valid attacks to auto-allow every magic attack with issues.
Some other magic attacks like fireballs are manipulated to move in unnatural ways, why can't that be the case here?
If it is the case here, then we lose the basis for a speed rating, since it could be manipulated to move at any arbitrarily low speed. If we knew that a fire manipulator's fire was sometimes as cold as 50 degrees, we would not always assume that it was 800 degrees. The ability to alter these things, rather than letting us justify sticking to real values despite the discordance, in fact makes us unable to use real values.
Pinging users who I think might care: @TheOrangeGuy09 @ShionAH @StrymULTRA
Pinging staff members who accepted the previous thread: @DarkDragonMedeus @Propellus
The lightning isn't real, and should not be given speeds of cloud-to-ground lightning or even electricity. This has previously gone on and off profiles over the years, I'd like it to be done once and for all. Removing the ratings, reverting characters to Supersonic/Supersonic+, removing the note saying this one (and the exceedingly similar Mettaton feat) are accepted from the verse page, and adding a discussion rule against it, since imo the arguments aren't substantially changing each time; it's just getting accepted by different staff members that weren't there for previous times it was discussed.
Part of my counter-arguments are based on how Frisk's soul is accepted as being ~43 cm wide, and how that's accepted for scaling to the sizes and distances of attacks.
One can see a visual of this attack here.
This attack doesn't involve real lightning as:
- It is emanated as discrete bolts from the cloud, shaped as cartoonish depictions of electricity, while real lightning streaks up from the ground, and down from the cloud simultaneously, in curving, branching lines, until they connect.
- Many of the bolts are fired in unrealistic directions, almost parallel to the ground, or even away from the ground, which cannot occur with real lightning.
- The cloud is just over a meter across, and just under a meter tall, completely unlike any real clouds.
- The cloud is about 2.5 meters above the ground, which is not a sufficient distance for cloud-to-ground lightning.
Vulkin says "Thunder!" before this attack. It comes from a cloud.
Because these attacks are themed off of lightning. It's unsurprising that a goofy RPG monster also says things in line with that. There are many fictional things that take some theming from real-world phenomena, while acting completely differently. We should not let their style overturn the substance.
Some other magic attacks in Undertale clearly correspond to their real-world counterparts, by persisting in that way afterwards.
Not everything from a magic system is inherently equally real. One character being able to create ice and it being real does not mean that another character creating a black hole has to be legit; they're different abilities that should be judged on their own adherence to reality. Mettaton's bombs being unrealistic by only exploding in the four cardinal directions has not managed to disprove the usability every other magic attack in the game, I would not expect the valid attacks to auto-allow every magic attack with issues.
Some other magic attacks like fireballs are manipulated to move in unnatural ways, why can't that be the case here?
If it is the case here, then we lose the basis for a speed rating, since it could be manipulated to move at any arbitrarily low speed. If we knew that a fire manipulator's fire was sometimes as cold as 50 degrees, we would not always assume that it was 800 degrees. The ability to alter these things, rather than letting us justify sticking to real values despite the discordance, in fact makes us unable to use real values.
Pinging users who I think might care: @TheOrangeGuy09 @ShionAH @StrymULTRA
Pinging staff members who accepted the previous thread: @DarkDragonMedeus @Propellus
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