Undertale KE Energy Upgrade and minor speed Upgrade

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

So, since characters moves so fast in Undertale, I decided to do some KE thingy to see if they should be stronger than City. For this, I decided to use Undertale's possibly heaviest character and the originator of the verse's city Level: Tsunderplane!

Basically, I just took the weight and length of a Boeing 747, because screw every other kind of plane.76 meters in lenght. The Maximum landing weight is 343 400kg. Let's take the height of the average 8 years old girl for Frisk's height, which is 1.2 meters. So, we have Tsundereplane, who's length is similar to the height of Frisk. A normal plane is 76 meters in length, Tsunderplane is 1.2 meters. It's 63 times smaller, so the weight must be 63 times smaller too. This gives us 5450kg. Now for her speed. She should probably scales to Knight Knight's Light Bullet, and since she physically flies in the bullet box, her speed must be similar. But since we can't uses FTL speed for KE energy, let's just roll with 0.9 times light, which is 269813212 meter per second.

5450 kg going at 269813212 meters per second...gives 198377736532587680000 joules, which is 1.9 ^20, Island Level feats for Tsundereplaane. It scales in the exact same way it did with City Level, except Asgore would probably be Large Island, same for Mettaton Neo.

As for speed upgrades, well, considering Frisk can dodges and react to projectiles faster than Knight Knight's sun Rays, I guess that FTL or at least Light Speed reaction wouldn't hurt.

 

[Squid_peanut]

the problem at hand is that we don't have any proof that tsunderplane's speed is comparible to Knight Knight's lightining, Frisk's speed varies heavely and the only reason we use tsunderplane and Knight Knight scale the bosses is because they clearly involve more determination and thus more or at least comparable speeds and power

 

[Blahblah9755]

I don't know about what squid peanut said, but another issue is that you only scaled down one dimension for Tsundereplane, when you should be scaling down all three if you want an accurate representation of mass

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Welll Knight Knight and Tsunderplane aren't that much different in term of status and power (With Tsunderplane being a tad stronger) so I don't think the speed would be that different. I guess I could do another calc with simple MHS speed or with a confirmed Relat+ characters if it is a really big issue.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

@Blah Well we don't have exactly any good scalable shot of Tsunderplane other than top-down. And I just assumed that her other dimensions shrinked at the same ratio as her length.

 

[Promestein]

I only really have a problem with Knight Knight's sun bullets being assumed to be light-based attacks moving at lightspeed. Like... it's not actually the sun, considering they're underground, so it's some sort of magic. There's no evidence that the bullets are moving at lightspeed outside of assumptions, and we're typically pretty strict when it comes assuming things moving at lightspeed, so?

I dunno if I'm wording this right.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

It could give you a better accurate calc if you do what Blah suggested, Saikou.

 

[Squid_peanut]

Welll Knight Knight and Tsunderplane aren't that much different in term of status and power (With Tsunderplane being a tad stronger) so I don't think the speed would be that different. I guess I could do another calc with simple MHS speed or with a confirmed Relat+ characters if it is a really big issue.

well, actually (I may be wrong on this) but vulkin also exibets a possible lightning attack and he fights along side Tsunderplane so there may be something there, that aside Blah brings up a good point and if you want to try this with other characters try out undyne's speers maybe since we know for sure that she has comparable speed and power to knight knight and tsunderplane

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well we don't know what these are made of, so doing KE may be hard. I guess I could go with Papyrus' giant bone attack.

 

[Northern_Wind00]

It's been pointed out that speed =/= striking power recently... Let me see if I can find the thread...

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/184596

Boom. Antvasima points out something important there;

"Well, in real life physics it would be a feat of strength and speed, but you make a good point that fiction is full of cases that do not equate the two. There are plenty of very slow Marvel characters that can punch people into space."

 

[Squid_peanut]

I only really have a problem with Knight Knight's sun bullets being assumed to be light-based attacks moving at lightspeed. Like... it's not actually the sun, considering they're underground, so it's some sort of magic. There's no evidence that the bullets are moving at lightspeed outside of assumptions, and we're typically pretty strict when it comes assuming things moving at lightspeed, so?
I dunno if I'm wording this right.

things in undertale are often presented to be very much litteral, for example papyrus' bones are actually physical bones that he keeps in a box, as well as other things, also Frisk has demenstrated far higher degrees of speed so the idea that knight knight is creating a mini-star and that the beams are light speed is not far fetched at all.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well it's not exactly the same thing, unless I'm wrong.

Here, it's assuming that a character's speed would lead to cause damage by collsion, exactly what Tsundereplane do in this case, not that a striking strength feat would equal speed feat too.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

I didn't even bother to read the whole thing , being 63 times smaller doesn't mean it weighs 63 times less ,it's 63 times smaller in each of the 3 dimensions which means it's 63 * 63 * 63 = 250047 times lighter

 

[Squid_peanut]

Well it's not exactly the same thing, unless I'm wrong.
Here, it's assuming that a character's speed would lead to cause damage by collsion, exactly what Tsundereplane do in this case, not that a striking strength feat would equal speed feat too.

well there's also then the question of how there can be multiple Tsunderplanes on screen at once in her attacks. one might be able to say that Frisk is just not that determined to face Tsunderplane and so she appears to move faster but then the same thing happens when Frisk fights her with Vulkin and Vulkin uses lighting attacks that Frisk can still dodge while multiple Tsunderplanes are on screen

 

[Promestein]

This is a pretty big leap from "Papyrus' bone attacks are actual bones". There's no reason to assume the projectiles emitted from a small magical sun are lightspeed. We don't even know if the projectiles are light-based. They could be fireballs or small stars or magical attacks for all we know.

 

[Northern_Wind00]

Well it's not exactly the same thing, unless I'm wrong.
Here, it's assuming that a character's speed would lead to cause damage by collsion, exactly what Tsundereplane do in this case, not that a striking strength feat would equal speed feat too.

Mmmm... Tsundereplane is not running into you though. You're getting close to her bullets. :l

Also, Knight Knight's sun bullets FIRE light. It would make sense that Knight Knight would have a sun shaped bullet that shoots light.

 

[Promestein]

Also, Knight Knight's sun bullets FIRE light. It would make sense that Knight Knight would have a sun shaped bullet that shoots light.

Unless I'm missing or forgetting something here (in which case, please, inform me), I don't remember any point where it was anything more than suggested that Knight Knight's sun bullets fire light.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I didn't even bother to read the whole thing , being 63 times smaller doesn't mean it weighs 63 times less ,it's 63 times smaller in each of the 3 dimensions which means it's 63 * 63 * 63 = 250047 times lighter

...Woops...Kay..Never mind everything I did. I screwed up.

 

[Northern_Wind00]

Also, Knight Knight's sun bullets FIRE light. It would make sense that Knight Knight would have a sun shaped bullet that shoots light.

Unless I'm missing or forgetting something here (in which case, please, inform me), I don't remember any point where it was anything more than suggested that Knight Knight's sun bullets fire light.

It fits the theme of the character and they've already displayed the ability to dodge ridiculously fast against other things.

 

[Squid_peanut]

Unless I'm missing or forgetting something here (in which case, please, inform me), I don't remember any point where it was anything more than suggested that Knight Knight's sun bullets fire light.

as has been said

• the attack shares the appearence of a star

• the star produces energy in every direction around it

• Knight Knight is clearly a skilled and intimidating warrior given that she's a mercenary meaning that Frisk would possess a notable quantity of determination.

 

[Promestein]

Alright.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I also just want to point out that Knight Knight's attack isn't the actual sun (obviously, because they're underground and you can't fit the god damn sun under the surface of the Earth), but likely a mini sun created by magic. However, this does not change the fact that it emits light (in all directions, as it should), and that close range light dodging should still be within the rel+ range. I hope I'm being clear enough. I'm kinda exhausted.

 

[Northern_Wind00]

I also just want to point out that Knight Knight's attack isn't the actual sun (obviously, because they're underground and you can't fit the god damn sun under the surface of the Earth), but likely a mini sun created by magic. However, this does not change the fact that it emits light (in all directions, as it should), and that close range light dodging should still be within the rel+ range. I hope I'm being clear enough. I'm kinda exhausted.

This exactly.

 

[Blahblah9755]

I know it's a bit late but here's a few shots where you can possibly compare Frisk and Tsundereplane

 

[Pokémon_Trainer_Jacob]

I'm still wondering how in the heck Undertale Characters are Multiversal. Now if Flowey would've killed Frisk and became God, than I can see him being OP, but a Flower being Multiversal?????? Something is fishy here.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Flowey is capable of completely obliterating and creating SAVEs (Which, in Undertale, are entire timelines). Additionally, Chara, at the end of the Genocide run, literally strikes the game itself and destroys it, simultaneously erasing countless timelines from existence. Add on the fact that God Flowey is unfathomably more powerful than Chara, and that Asriel is literally infinitely more powerful than both of them with only a fraction of his power, and we arrive at multiversal Undertale.

 

[Pokémon_Trainer_Jacob]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ OK Nevermind. Flower that potentially defeats Goku makes sense now, well Goku does have a speed advantage but still, Flowey can potentially defeat Goku. I...I don't like it, but I have to accept it.

 

[The_Everlasting]

>Goku does have a speed advantage

Bruh, Flowey's speed is also Immeasurable. There's literally no way for Goku to even see Flowey's movements.

 

[Pokémon_Trainer_Jacob]

^^^^^^^^ Oh I didn't pay enough attention to that page, crap. Well a Flower officially solos All of DBZ. Well except Toribot I'm pretty sure he's omnipotent.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Hey i like Goku, and i can accept the fact that a Flower beats him, Jacob. Then again, it's mainly because if my lack giving a s*** or two about stuff like this do i ever have to care, ya know?

 

[Pokémon_Trainer_Jacob]

I see where you're coming from. Me I accepted it or I would've been stubborn and said "Goku has Unlimited Reaction time because Instant Transmission" or something stupid like that. I actually find the Flower soling DBZ kind of funny in a sense that the God of Destruction loses to a Flower that a Little Kid beat.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I see where you're coming from. Me I accepted it or I would've been stubborn and said "Goku has Unlimited Reaction time because Instant Transmission" or something stupid like that. I actually find the Flower soling DBZ kind of funny in a sense that the God of Destruction loses to a Flower that a Little Kid beat.

Heh. Pretty funny. Though it makes sense that only God Flowey would easily solo the DBverse. On his own Flower form, i really don't think so but of course, that wouldn't be fair right? To be fair, Beerus would kind of be doing us a favor by killing a psychopathic flower yea?

On-topic to everyone here: Upgrades to Undertale or no upgrades?

 

[Pokémon_Trainer_Jacob]

If Beerus killed Flowey that would be hilarious. Now do we actually think Undertale needs Upgrades? They're too OP as it is. Don't Upgrade them.

 

[Squid_peanut]

If Beerus killed Flowey that would be hilarious. Now do we actually think Undertale needs Upgrades? They're too OP as it is. Don't Upgrade them.

upgrades dont happen on want, they happen if they should. although already an un-asuming dog can solo the metal gear verse

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

It's as what Squid said. Should an upgrade gets passed, it'll be set in no matter what unless you show counter evidence that a character or verse shouldn't recieve it. It's the same thing where a verse may not get an upgrade but someone could potentially show evidence that they should.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Flowey is hilariously OP for a flower.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Flowey is hilariously OP for a flower.

Heh, indeed. Hey Azathoth, i'm kind of actually confused. How do you know if the Undertale God Tiers are multiversal? Unless i missed something from watching the fight.....

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Cross

Flowey is capable of completely obliterating and creating SAVEs (Which, in Undertale, are entire timelines). Additionally, Chara, at the end of the Genocide run, literally strikes the game itself and destroys it, simultaneously erasing countless timelines from existence. Add on the fact that God Flowey is unfathomably more powerful than Chara, and that Asriel is literally infinitely more powerful than both of them with only a fraction of his power, and we arrive at multiversal Undertale.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

@Cross
Flowey is capable of completely obliterating and creating SAVEs (Which, in Undertale, are entire timelines). Additionally, Chara, at the end of the Genocide run, literally strikes the game itself and destroys it, simultaneously erasing countless timelines from existence. Add on the fact that God Flowey is unfathomably more powerful than Chara, and that Asriel is literally infinitely more powerful than both of them with only a fraction of his power, and we arrive at multiversal Undertale.

Aye. Forgot about that part during Flowey's boss fight. Thanks, Everlasting.