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Undertale: Frisk is not Hypersonic+, which also means Sans is not Hypersonic+.

Duy9161

Duy9161

72
19
Frisk's speed is at best baseline human level and I can't see why this is even contested?

First of all, the lightning bolts aren't actually lightning bolts. They're magical bullets shaped like lightning bolts.

We know they are not real lightning bolts because that is not how real lightning bolts move (seriously, real lightning bolts don't radiate outward like that) or look like (real lightning bolts don't look like little pellets of lightning bolt shapes. Just no.). We also know magical bullets can take basically any form (there's vegetable shaped bullets as seen with Vegetoid, and the dog couple can make heart shaped bullets) and so lightning bolt shaped bullets is relatively straight forward.

Second, the lightning bolts might not even be lightning bolts, but heat waves. Anime style heat waves. It would explain the radiating better, and clouds from vulcanic eruptions are famously deadly for their immense heat.

Third, we can clearly see Frisk walking at a reasonable speed when they flee Undyne, which is the one time Frisk would definitely need to use their full speed. It's not slowed down in the game because we can still clearly read the Welcome to Hotland sign. If Frisk was actually walking at Hypersonic+ speed, the sign to everyone else would be an unreadable blur and it would be useless.

Fourth, Napstablook is not Massively Hypersonic+ because of being able to close the blinds before Flowey's light got in. He just isn't. This is how the thing with Flowey's light happened according to the dialogue at the end of the game: There was a light under the doorstep. He heard a knock. He then saw a flash of light and then the snails on the farm disappeared (notice that he said "flash of light" here, which means that he couldn't see the snail actually being snatched away by the light or even anything at all). He got afraid of this so he then closed the blinds.

Even if we are assuming that the light is what is taking away the monsters (let's not, because we don't have any reason to believe the monsters weren't instead taken by something that glows), the sole fact that the light bothered to knock at all means it was being a) polite and want to give Napstablook a choice and b) not in a rush.

But since it needed to knock, the safest assumption is that Flowey's monster sucking glow couldn't get in through the window. It would have gone straight for the window without knocking if that were the case.

By the way, the one argument that says Sans is Hypersonic+ depends completely on Frisk's speed. If this one rating goes, Sans' Hypersonic+ rating must go too.


EDIT: The bit about heat waves originally said the attacks moved in a spiral, which is wrong. They actually move in a radiating pattern.
 
"Third, we can clearly see Frisk walking at a reasonable speed when they flee Undyne, which is the one time Frisk would definitely need to use their full speed. It's not slowed down in the game because we can still clearly read the Welcome to Hotland sign. If Frisk was actually walking at Hypersonic+ speed, the sign to everyone else would be an unreadable blur and it would be useless." The sign thing doesn't disprove cinimatic timing At All

And the "reasonable speed" again doesn't disprove MHS+ frisk
 
Yes. And do you have anything to say about the first, second, or fourth point?

I can't see why Sonic matters here when it's made by a completely different creator with a completely different design philosophy but I don't really care about the third point compared to the other ones.

The first and fourth points are the ones that really matter.
 
Napstablock isn't faster then light that just listed there why? I have no clue (well I do but it will take to long to explain just remove that)
 
I can't understand why some people just have to pick on poor Napstablook. Just let the depressed guy rest for god's sake.
 
There's an enemy that is a vulcan. He releases clouds, and from these clouds lightning come.

Volcanic Lightning is a real thing.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
There's an enemy that is a vulcan. He releases clouds, and from these clouds lightning come.

Volcanic Lightning is a real thing.
Click to expand...
Of course. But the point here is whether it was real lightning. Or magical bullets shaped like lightning that also gives electric shock.
 
Magic in Undertale can essentially be anything, if I'm not mistaken it comes from a being's will. It's lightning that comes from clouds.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Magic in Undertale can essentially be anything, if I'm not mistaken it comes from a being's will. It's lightning that comes from clouds.
Click to expand...
It's also very common for monsters to express themselves through magic. Like magical bullet pattern birthday cards. Vulkin was thinking it was helping and might have wanted to express that with little magical pellets instead of thunder and lightning which fits the literal bullet shapes (seriously, can that thing even go into any houses if it was that much of a fire hazard? Not to mention it was working as a house warmer at the good end. I can't imagine the monsters would let that happen even if they can make it promise to not use the lightning magic indoor).

Also, it doesn't behave like real lightning. If it was real lightning that was strong enough to be struck from clouds at least half a metter from the ground, it won't be some kiddie shock. Yet it hurt less than Woshua cleaning droplets (if you don't hug it and let your DEFENSE drop that is).

And there's the fact that if a cute little monster like Woshua could do that, the monster war would have turned out very different. At least if we take the plates in Waterfall at face value.
 
>Kiddie shock.

I mean it actually should be more powerful than real life going by actual feats like Tsunderplane's bombardment, Metatton's bombs, Undyne splitting bridges in half, etc.

>Cleaning droplets

So you use the "It's magic" argument to say that the lightning is weaker and slower than real lightning but can't accept the droplets which are also magic being stronger?

>Cute little monster

Wow, I bet that this cute gothic lolita named Bernkastel must be really weak.

Seriously even OBD accepts Undertale as being around Town level+ and Hypersonic+ via this calc.
 
So you use the "It's magic" argument to say that the lightning is weaker and slower than real lightning but can't accept the droplets which are also magic being stronger?

Not really. Woshua's droplets weren't really that strong anyway. Certainly not as strong as real electric shock at that level, which would have killed a child instantly.

Tsunderplane bombs are uncalculable because they're only present in battle view, mettaton's bombs aren't meant to kill anyone, and the bridge undyne split in half was a wooden bridge, and she didn't split any bridge in half, she broke off a part that was already only supported on one side.
 
Alright.

Your assumptions here are based off of Frisk's 10-C key.

Frisk, I'm pretty sure when he gets past Toriel he's filled with sufficient enough Determination to be 7-C.

Frisk's stats change as he gains more determination. I'm pretty sure lightning can't kill a Town Level person, no matter how young they are.

Also 'Mettaton's bombs weren't meant to kill anyone?'

"So... as thanks, I'll give you a handsome reward. I'll make your last living moments... ABSOLUTELY beautiful!" -Mettaton, trying to kill the Frisk.

Also these topics are god damn terrible I'm changing them.
 
When will people stop trying this? I mean really. There is no way Frisk is slower than lightning when we clearly see them dedge lightning. This has been discussed to death and it's not going to change so just stop.
 
Ok, let me just sum up everything I just read here.

Frisk can move faster than the speed of sound. They basically move so fast that if normal people were watching no one would be able to comprehend what they are looking at. The entire story of Undertale is that of godly beings who can move at godly speeds, slowed down so that us mere mortals can understand.

This is all because they're SUPER DETERMINED AND THERFORE CAN DO ANYTHING. Even being in Hotland which is hotter than the surface of the sun, which I'm sure all of you have excruciatingly combed through every trivial details of the game to prove.

Frisk is also superhumanly hard to kill. They can survive getting blowned up with airstrikes, because those are real airstrikes. Really. Not because it's rule of cool or rule of fiction or rule of comedy. A child surving a fall from several hundred feets? They're just super strong. And not because of magic. Like that casted by Toriel to prevent any potential fallen children from getting hurt. No, if a child in Undertale-verse wanted to jump from a ten story building just for shit and giggles it's all free game.

Oh and by the way Volkin can just casually electro shock a man to death. Woshua's water splashes is even deadlier than thousands of volts of electric shock. Yet they were slaughtered wholesales by regular normal humans, presumably because humans in the Undertale universe are all Super Saiyans, just like Frisk.

Did I get it right? And you guys take this to be canon?
 
1. Yeah, they have feats.

2. We never said that, I said Frisk's stats get amped the more determined he is. Also I think it just takes a Wall or Building level character to survive the surface of the Sun. Which is why both Sans and Alphys are 8-C physically.

3. Yes, Frisk is superhumanly hard to kill when their full of Determination. The Town level stuff comes from this calc and everyone scales. Frisk can fight Asgore, Asgore is superior to fodder. Y'know the gist.

4. Yeah, normal humans. Suuuuuuuure. I mean seven souls can literally grant you infinite power.
 
Duy9161 said:
This is all because they're SUPER DETERMINED AND THERFORE CAN DO ANYTHING.
Click to expand...
I'm genuinely not sure why you're using argument from incredulity when this is literally the in-universe explanation for the unique power humans possess to become stronger and maintain their SOULs after death.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
I'm genuinely not sure why you're using argument from incredulity when this is literally the in-universe explanation for the unique power humans possess to become stronger and maintain their SOULs after death.
Click to expand...
I don't actually care. At this point the only questions I want answered is "Did half of the Undertale fandom somehow decided all of this to be canon while I'm gone or is this something that is just localized in a small corner of the fandom, and if the former then why do I even care when Undertale is basically just Dragon Ball Z with talking skeletons now?"
 
@Duy9161 I'll go down your list.

Pretty much any media where the heroes go at superhuman speeds is slowed down so us mere mortals can actually see it, yes. Any time where you're playing Super Sonic in a Sonic game, the fights in Dragon Ball, any time true lightning in a game appears to be slower than instantaneous. I don't see how this is any different than any other media in this regard.

Yeah, DETERMINATION is a thing that is used as an argument in the game itself, so no duh we're going to use it. Also, we say Hotland is hotter than the surface of the sun because it literally caused a Styrofoam cup to evaporate in Frisk's hand, and I'm pretty sure there's a calculation to go alongside it (one of which I don't know how to find). Also, even the MTT Stoves that are used by, say, Undyne go up to 9000 degrees, and the only system where the sun is anywhere near that temperature is Fahrenheit, to which the sun is slightly hotter.

Plenty of stories treat their beyond superhuman characters as being threatened by non-superhuman things, like how Spiderman dodges bullets from random mooks even though he's got feats that put him at 7-C, so naturally the bullets shouldn't have the energy to pierce his skin. Also, we know that the things we see on the bullet board exist in some way thanks to Papyrus literally storing the bones he uses in his attacks in a box in his room. I don't see how something being "Rule of Cool" or "Rule of Fiction" matter when we're literally talking about something we see on screen. And where are you getting "Like that casted by Toriel to prevent any potential fallen children from getting hurt" part, because I've played the game and no where does she cast any magic on the player outside of trying to catch them on fire.

Yeah, everyone has determination. Alphys literally extracted it from the last 6 humans who fell into the underground. Alongside this, Monsters are literally+ weak to murder and malicious intent. Its why early game GenoFrisk can one shot Toriel and most other bosses, while PaciFrisk, who presumably only attacks in self defense due to the whole Pacifist thing, doesn't.

Duy9161 said:
"Did half of the Undertale fandom somehow decided all of this to be canon while I'm gone or is this something that is just localized in a small corner of the fandom, and if the former then why do I even care when Undertale is basically just Dragon Ball Z with talking skeletons now?"
Click to expand...
No, the majority of the fandom probably doesn't treat the characters as being this powerful, and they likely don't particularly care about how strong any of the characters are and don't spend their free time calculating how powerful a miniature plane moving near the speed of lightning is, as our whole website is pretty niche. What we do actually see in game makes it out to be a rather powerful verse for a child's murderous or friendly rampage through a cave. I'm not saying you have to agree with it, there are plenty of verses here I don't agree with the power level of, but you'll have to accept it while you're here.
 
Actually I did watch some let's plays of undertale on YouTube and the guys playing did recognize say, Asriel and Chars as Universal threats. They even joked about it "I get that you're sorry but that doesn't excuse you almost destroying reality". Even stuff like the regular Undertale fandom on youtube accepts that characters like Undyne and Metatton are superhuman (And of course they are, one's a animesque knight who does ridiculous stuff all the time for jokes and the other is a killer robot that shoots lasers and missiles at you), and even the Undertale Musical (Which you should listen to you if you're a fan of the series, it's fantastic) treats the God-Tiers as Universal with talk of how Asriel has control over space and time and how Chara will erase all space and time if not stopped.

It's only Reddit who seems convinced that any real life Human child would solo Undertale if angry enough. Which is where I'm guessing the person from this thread is.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Actually I did watch some let's plays of undertale on YouTube and the guys playing did recognize say, Asriel and Chars as Universal threats. They even joked about it "I get that you're sorry but that doesn't excuse you almost destroying reality".
It's only Reddit who seems convinced that any real life Human would solo Undertale. Which is where I'm guessing the per from this thread is.
Click to expand...
I don't see how Asriel and Chara figures into whether Frisk is like a real life human or not, but ok.

Keep doing whatever you're doing on this website. As long as no one from here takes it onto themselves to get into my face and says "Sans is wayyyy more powerful than Asgore because I'm soooo into Sans and what could be the ultimate trophy on the wall than to kill the King of Monster himself for no ******* reason?" on Reddit or Tumblr or Youtube then I'll be happy, because there's already an army of those idiots already and the world is a better place if there's one less of them in the fandom. I don't actually care much about whatever this website is about, keep on having fun, just don't fuel the Sans fetish in the rest of the fandom.

And definitely don't fuel the Sans fetish in the rest of the fandom using your exhaustive walls of text calc essays, accidentally or otherwise. Ain't nobody got time fo that shit.
 
DerpCity said:
@Duy9161 I'll go down your list.
Pretty much any media where the heroes go at superhuman speeds is slowed down so us mere mortals can actually see it, yes. Any time where you're playing Super Sonic in a Sonic game, the fights in Dragon Ball, any time true lightning in a game appears to be slower than instantaneous. I don't see how this is any different than any other media in this regard.

Yeah, DETERMINATION is a thing that is used as an argument in the game itself, so no duh we're going to use it. Also, we say Hotland is hotter than the surface of the sun because it literally caused a Styrofoam cup to evaporate in Frisk's hand, and I'm pretty sure there's a calculation to go alongside it (one of which I don't know how to find). Also, even the MTT Stoves that are used by, say, Undyne go up to 9000 degrees, and the only system where the sun is anywhere near that temperature is Fahrenheit, to which the sun is slightly hotter.

Plenty of stories treat their beyond superhuman characters as being threatened by non-superhuman things, like how Spiderman dodges bullets from random mooks even though he's got feats that put him at 7-C, so naturally the bullets shouldn't have the energy to pierce his skin. Also, we know that the things we see on the bullet board exist in some way thanks to Papyrus literally storing the bones he uses in his attacks in a box in his room. I don't see how something being "Rule of Cool" or "Rule of Fiction" matter when we're literally talking about something we see on screen. And where are you getting "Like that casted by Toriel to prevent any potential fallen children from getting hurt" part, because I've played the game and no where does she cast any magic on the player outside of trying to catch them on fire.

Yeah, everyone has determination. Alphys literally extracted it from the last 6 humans who fell into the underground. Alongside this, Monsters are literally+ weak to murder and malicious intent. Its why early game GenoFrisk can one shot Toriel and most other bosses, while PaciFrisk, who presumably only attacks in self defense due to the whole Pacifist thing, doesn't.


Duy9161 said:
"Did half of the Undertale fandom somehow decided all of this to be canon while I'm gone or is this something that is just localized in a small corner of the fandom, and if the former then why do I even care when Undertale is basically just Dragon Ball Z with talking skeletons now?"
Click to expand...
No, the majority of the fandom probably doesn't treat the characters as being this powerful, and they likely don't particularly care about how strong any of the characters are and don't spend their free time calculating how powerful a miniature plane moving near the speed of lightning is, as our whole website is pretty niche. What we do actually see in game makes it out to be a rather powerful verse for a child's murderous or friendly rampage through a cave. I'm not saying you have to agree with it, there are plenty of verses here I don't agree with the power level of, but you'll have to accept it while you're here.
Click to expand...
You can stop now. There's no one left here to convince. I'm not coming back for this site and I bid you good luck.
 
Woa buddy. Chill out, will ya? You're getting super mad you're not being accepted and are just resorting to insults now.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Woa buddy. Chill out, will ya? You're getting super mad you're not being accepted and are just resorting to insults now.
Click to expand...
No hard feelings here. Let me just get this straight: I'm fine with Versus battle as long as it's in this website because it actually makes sense to let everyone indulge their hobby in a safe corner on the internet. I just hate to see this website unintentionally fuels the fire of Sans fanboy (the sanctimonious kind, not the quiet kind).

Also I'm not going back to this website because it's not my taste. If I see another Sans fan in my inbox on Tumblr or Reddit with references to this website again I'll just tell them to go **** themselves instead of changing your website.
 
I'm pretty sure this guy is from reddit. I'll be browsing /r/CharacterRant today to see the new VSBW rant they come up with.
 
It's basically a fact that Asgore is stronger than Sans, like you don't even need to be a Undertale expert to know that =P
 
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