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Uncompositing the Dragon Ball Cosmology

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Sinec the author describes non canon work (GT/movies) as parallel worlds, and we learn that these parallel worlds exist in Super and follow the many worlds interpretation, there is no reason for a composite cosmology to not exist and so I disagree with the OP.
 
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Sinec the author describes non canon work (GT/movies) as parallel worlds, and we learn that these parallel worlds exist in Super and follow the many worlds interpretation, there is no reason for a composite cosmology to not exist and so I disagree with the OP.
i don't see why toryama's statements about the movies would matter when he himself said that he has no autority about them whatsoever, and that he is but an audience member to them, gt i am neutral however
 
Sinec the author describes non canon work (GT/movies) as parallel worlds, and we learn that these parallel worlds exist in Super and follow the many worlds interpretation, there is no reason for a composite cosmology to not exist and so I disagree with the OP.
Those are parallel worlds created via Time Travel. Why would GT or the movies be the same as that?
 
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Sinec the author describes non canon work (GT/movies) as parallel worlds, and we learn that these parallel worlds exist in Super and follow the many worlds interpretation, there is no reason for a composite cosmology to not exist and so I disagree with the OP.
Wouldn’t you have to show that they are worlds created by time travel then?
 
Okay... And how do we know that GT is one of those canon parallel worlds? Why can't it be a non-canon parallel world?
Under the Many worlds interpretation which the verse seems to operate under, there is no 'non-canon parallel world'. The possibilities are endless as written in the verse page, and the same goes for the movies.
But you could still use Arale as a solid and undeniable link, I guess
 
I feel like there are a lot of misunderstandings. I agree on paper that yes, there are different canons and the stories/plots are not intended to composite. However, plenty of guides that talk about the structures of the Afterlife relative to the living world and RoSaT or Realm of the Kais, all of that has been pretty consistent that Toriyama has often tried to apply those to all versions of Dragon Ball; both original Manga and various adaptations.
 
First off the scan here isn't talking about a literal parallel timeline shared between continuities but rather in a meta way referring to them more so as different mediums or stories with different events than the TV series or manga.
This scan's talking about timelines, not different continuities.
This depicts a story from the future world where the teenage Trunks is from. In brief, it is an event from a different history than the one advanced in the original work or TV series.
"Different history" isn't referring to different continuity, as far that goes History of Trunks is part of the Z Anime's continuity
(and arguably even Super since the Anime used a newly animated version of what appears to be its events), this is referring to different timelines.
 
I'm mostly just gonna watch this thread ******* explode into a hot mess (like all Dragon Ball Cosmology threads), but there is one nitpick I'd like to point out.
That's literally timeline map about the history of dragon ball. This is not recognition of a shared cosmology but the history of the dragon ball franchise. Unless you wanna say GT takes place within the same timeline as Super like the board would suggest despite that being riddled with plot holes and contradictions.
I don't think it would make any sense for them to put Dragon Ball GT after Dragon Ball Super if it was a celebration of the franchise. Why wouldn't they put it in order from oldest to newest? It makes no sense. There's also the fact that they make an effort to include events from the franchise with in-universe dates like a timeline. If its a celebration, it would make a lot more sense to put the actual dates the events took place in.
 
However, plenty of guides that talk about the structures of the Afterlife relative to the living world and RoSaT or Realm of the Kais, all of that has been pretty consistent that Toriyama has often tried to apply those to all versions of Dragon Ball; both original Manga and various adaptations.
I don't think anyone is contesting the fact that they all have overlap. It's natural that they would, because they're within the same franchise (and by nature share a great deal of common elements). I think the issue is with assuming that any piece of cosmological information can be applied to every other work -- canon or not -- is not supported by any evidence.

By their very nature, a non-canon work is one which has incompatible differences with the main work. In merging the cosmology, one is essentially making the declaration that for whatever reason the cosmology is specifically excluded from the differences between these works that make them incompatible, i.e. the cosmology is identical across all works despite the differences that render some canon and others not, even when we don't have a good reason to believe that.
 
I think the issue is with assuming that any piece of cosmological information can be applied to every other work -- canon or not -- is not supported by any evidence.
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Sinec the author describes non canon work (GT/movies) as parallel worlds, and we learn that these parallel worlds exist in Super and follow the many worlds interpretation, there is no reason for a composite cosmology to not exist and so I disagree with the OP.
This is quite literally, all you need.
All the other evidence stated thus far in this thread are just the cake on top.
 
I agree with the thread
By the way... I don't understand the argument of Shueshia's tweet
Yeah, it puts the entire franchise in chronological order. Does that mean anything? Not necessarily, they just tell you in which years the events take place, it's not like they decided to put them after Super in order to canonize it, but rather that Gt happens in years after the last chapter of Z, while Super happens in years before the last chapter of Z
That they have decided to put chronological years in GT does not tell me anything
 
Nope, it isn't, because we would need concrete information to suggest this refers to GT.
Again, many worlds implies the existence of an infinite amount of different timelines, one of which can be GT.
Which is backed up by evidence from Toriyama interviews, Shueisha via adding it to the history of Dragon Ball, and Bird Studio via Arale.
By the way I'll plop this here, since it's pretty rare and I had never seen it before
 
one of which can be GT.
Emphasis on "can."

Which is backed up by evidence from Toriyama interviews, Shueisha via adding it to the history of Dragon Ball, and Bird Studio via Arale.
By the way I'll plop this here, since it's pretty rare and I had never seen it before
That evidence was already discussed above. The headline is, if that's all that we have then it isn't enough.
 
Emphasis on "can."


That evidence was already discussed above. The headline is, if that's all that we have then it isn't enough.
I wouldn't have had to repeat it if you hadn't said that it wasn't supported by any evidence just earlier.
You should have been more transparent and just said that you don't find evidence from the author, the license holders and the show to be enough for some reason.
 
You should have been more transparent and just said that you don't find evidence from the author, the license holders and the show to be enough for some reason.
I feel like I was pretty transparent about this in my first comment. But yes, essentially what it comes down do is that I do not believe the evidence referenced in the OP meaningfully contributes to the conclusion that GT shares a cosmology with DBS.
 
I feel like I was pretty transparent about this in my first comment. But yes, essentially what it comes down do is that I do not believe the evidence referenced in the OP meaningfully contributes to the conclusion that GT shares a cosmology with DBS.
Why do you think that all the evidence is lacking? What more do you think it needs for it to be satisfactory to you?
 
Why do you think that all the evidence is lacking? What more do you think it needs for it to be satisfactory to you?
I really don't love the trend of being asked essentially to repeat something I already said because someone in the thread wants to continue arguing past the point of it being clear that we simply have a difference in perspective, but fine, I'll explain once again:

None of the evidence you're referring to tells us that GT or other non-canon works are one of the "alternate timelines" or alternate worlds mentioned in the canon series such that we could unify their cosmology. The timelines being referred to -- as Damage points out -- refer to branches made through time travel like the timeline where Goku died of a heart virus.

The fact that, in certain interviews or statements, GT or other non-canon works were referred to as having a "different history" or a "side story" doesn't mean they're in the same cosmology. If they were outside the DBS cosmology they'd still be side stories and still have different histories.

For a piece of information to be considered "evidence" for a specific conclusion, it needs to eliminate other possibilities. If the information being provided would be true even if the conclusion you're arguing for wasn't true then it isn't evidence. In this case, none of the evidence clashes with GT having it's own cosmology, you're just assuming it's part of the structure of alternate timelines mentioned in DBS even though there's nothing saying it is and those timelines operate differently than GT.
 
Wait, Toriyama himself saying that dbgt is a side story is not enough?
I take issue with this personally, I very much believe the info presented is enough for a shared cosmology and I feel like it's getting to the point where nothing will be enough, save for Toriyama stepping up and saying in bold font "Dragon Ball GT is a part of the Dragon Ball cosmology"
 
An audience member's headcanon is not an official statement of canonicity here.
Whaattt 😭 him being an audience member just refers to his involvement in the writing, as even the OP makes note of, he's clearly referring to the manga's cosmology there "different dimension from the story of the comic".

His lack of writing involvement doesn't take away his authority to canonize them at his discretion as the creator of the franchise and authority of his work (the manga), as he does in that interview. He literally already did this with Z Bardock from the special into the manga back then (later changed to Super Bardock, but Bardock nonetheless with most story beats still lifted from the special, a character and story he didn't originally create and was an audience member to), and Broly.
 
He refers to himself as nothing more than an audience members for these movies. Damage is correct
 
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