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Ultra Series Tiering Revision

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3-A

Originally on the other thread with the statements Juda’s universe distortion feat was accepted as at least 3-B, likely 3-A. But after taking a look at the tiering system. I found this line under the footnotes. For 3-A to 2-A

"Significantly affect" is used as an umbrella term for feats that don't involve direct creation or destruction but are comparable to them in power, such as warping and distorting the entirety of the structure in question, sustaining its existence with one's own, merging the structure with another one, etc.

And this is a part of Juda’s databook statement that Qliphoth translated for us.

Juda, the Universe "Destroyer":

50,000 years ago, when he attempted to destroy the universe by distorting the whole universe, Father of Ultra corrected the distortion of the universe and he was once defeated, but he has been resurrected many years later. In the recent battle, he and the Grand King, who had been sharing his power with him, disappeared, but there is a possibility that they will be resurrected again.

The description straight up said he distorted the entire universe and the tiering system says distorting the universe qualifies for 3-A so rather than at least 3-B, likely 3-A, Juda should just be straight up 3-A

High 3-A

And for High 3-A I recently found these two statements saying Ultimate Final Geed has infinite power. One is from the novelization of the movie when he transforms and the other is from one of the databook that says fighting power is infinite. And in the last episode of his series (Before he unlocked Ultimate Final in the movie), King also said his infinite potential is still untapped.

Qliphoth has also translated these two statements for us

1: "Setting the Evolution Capsule into the Giga Finalizer, Riku transformed.

The ultimate form of Geed, with his power raised to infinity...

Ultraman Geed to the Ultimate Final!"

2: "This is the form with infinite fighting power that has been Ultimate Evolved with the Evolution Capsule. He will continue to fight for the future of the Earth."

And High 3-A wouldn’t even be an outlier as by The Ultra Galaxy Era which is around 10000 year after the Heisei Era, Hikari who along with Max is at the very bottom of the known Ultras scaling is capable of defeating Armored Mephilas who is equal to Armored Darkness who is equal to Alien Empera who is superior to Juda who is 3-A. And Ultimate Final Geed is one of the strongest characters in the Post-Crisis Impact Era (Two Eras after Ultra Galaxy) with only a handful of characters who are stronger than him. And some of them who are stronger than him scales to the Super Dimension Eradication Bomb. Which brings me to my next point.

Low 2-C

Post-Crisis Impact Era Belial survived being in the epicenter of the bomb after having a battle with Ultimate Zero which left them both wounded. And some others roughly scale to, above, and/or below him. The Super Space-Time Eradication Bomb (超時空消滅爆弾 Chō Jikū Shōmetsu Bakudan). Is stated in series and in the databook to be capable of destroying the entire universe by causing a dimension rift that spreads throughout the entire universe. Here is Qliphoth‘s translation of this part from the databook.

“The destructive power of the Super Space-Time Eradication Bomb is so great that the original fault line centered on the explosion on said Earth spreads throughout the universe and collapses the entire Side Space. Even with the power of the Ultramans of the Land of Light, they were unable to stop this collapse..."

And as shown with the notes under the tiering system significantly affecting the entire structure would also count as 3-A to 2-A. And the bomb‘s name literally says its a space-time eradication bomb and we have statements both in series and in the databooks that said it affected the entire universe (In this case the Side Space universe which has its own time flow). In the movies it is also mentioned that each universe has its own time flow. It’s the reason why some of the characters in their human forms didn’t seem to age even though it has been years since they last met). And so I believe instead of the bomb being accepted as at least 3-A, likely Low 2-C like in this thread, the bomb should be considered straight up Low 2-C.

Scaling

If these things get accepted the characters that scale would be

3-A: Juda, Grand King, Showa Era Super Taro, Glitter Tiga, Heisei Era Future Mode Cosmos, Heisei Era Crusher Mode Justice, Gloker Rook, Gloker Bishop, Giga Endra, Alien Empera, Armored Darkness, Armored Mephilas, possibly U-Killersaurus and Giga Khimaira, everybody Ultra Galaxy Era onwards

High 3-A: Ultimate Final Geed, Snake Darkness, Groob, Post-Crisis Impact Era and Reiwa Era Tregear, Gillvalis, Reiwa Era Ultra Brothers, Galaxy Rising Geed, 2nd Form Greeza (Ultraman Z), Delta Rise Claw Z, Fusion Baraba, Beliarok, Destrudos, Tri-Strium Taiga, Reiwa Era New Generation Ultra’s strongest form, and Woola

Low 2-C: Post-Crisis Impact Era Belial, Post-Crisis Impact Era Ultimate and Shining Zero, Reiwa Era Zero, Tartarus amped Belial and Tregear, Grimdo, Reiwa Era Joneus, Absolute Tartarus, King, Noa, Legend, and Delacion would be Low 2-C. If Father of Ultra is still considered on par with Base Zero even in the Reiwa Era than he would also be Low 2-C. Also Delacion would only be possibly Low 2-C due to the databook saying she might be the creator of the M78 Universe.
 
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Having discussed with OP prior to the creation of this thread, and with the addition of some of my prior points, I am in support of the proposals.

As extra precaution to add to the OP, in the case that the statements of High 3-A aren't accepted, they will nonetheless be supported should Low 2-C be accepted. Reason being a character's use of a comparatively small portion of a Low 2-C's power.
 
Actually didn’t the previous thread already say having a portion of a Low 2-C’s power isn’t High 3-A anymore? So if these High 3-A statements get rejected they would only be 3-A. Really really high end 3-A but still 3-A nonetheless and not High 3-A.
 
Huh, I remember that being the constant standard. Well either way, I guess that would be the possible alternative. Let's wait for further input then.

EDIT: It was indeed aaid to he unquantifiable. I would like to be linked to the possible thread that was discussed in.
 
Yeah time for the wait to begin again. Hopefully this time the revision doesn’t take over a month to conclude.
 
I pretty much agree with everything apart from the High 3-A because King saying Geed's infinite potential is untapped kind of contradicts the tiering, it would probably just be 3-A
 
King saying Geed’s infinite potential is untapped was at the end of his series but before the movie. Geed’s Ultimate Final form (Which he only unlocked in the movie) has two infinite power statement so this is likely what King meant by infinite potential. So I don’t see how that’s a contradiction as he only unlocked his Ultimate Final form after King has left.
 
Bump again, but also because I want to add that the multiverse map linked in OP says "Chart of Ultra Worlds that exist beyond dimensions", further adding to the fact that space-time and dimensions are interchangeable terms and proving the STA's effect further.
 
Bump. Can somebody please give some more input. We’ve still got like 2 more CRTs after this.
 
No clue I think in the past threads Ant just came in and called a bunch of people to see whoever would help out.
 
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3-A
Originally on the other thread with the statements Juda’s universe distortion feat was accepted as at least 3-B, likely 3-A. But after taking a look at the tiering system. I found this line under the footnotes. For 3-A to 2-A

"Significantly affect" is used as an umbrella term for feats that don't involve direct creation or destruction but are comparable to them in power, such as warping and distorting the entirety of the structure in question, sustaining its existence with one's own, merging the structure with another one, etc.

And this is a part of Juda’s databook statement that Qliphoth translated for us.

Juda, the Universe "Destroyer":

50,000 years ago, when he attempted to destroy the universe by distorting the whole universe, Father of Ultra corrected the distortion of the universe and he was once defeated, but he has been resurrected many years later. In the recent battle, he and the Grand King, who had been sharing his power with him, disappeared, but there is a possibility that they will be resurrected again.

The description straight up said he distorted the entire universe and the tiering system says distorting the universe qualifies for 3-A so rather than at least 3-B, likely 3-A, Juda should just be straight up 3-A
If the translations check out, this should be fine.

High 3-A

And for High 3-A I recently found these two statements saying Ultimate Final Geed has infinite power. One is from the novelization of the movie when he transforms and the other is from one of the databook that says fighting power is infinite. And in the last episode of his series (Before he unlocked Ultimate Final in the movie), King also said his infinite potential is still untapped.

Qliphoth has also translated these two statements for us

1: "Setting the Evolution Capsule into the Giga Finalizer, Riku transformed.

The ultimate form of Geed, with his power raised to infinity...

Ultraman Geed to the Ultimate Final!"

2: "This is the form with infinite fighting power that has been Ultimate Evolved with the Evolution Capsule. He will continue to fight for the future of the Earth."

And High 3-A wouldn’t even be an outlier as by The Ultra Galaxy Era which is around 10000 year after the Heisei Era, Hikari who along with Max is at the very bottom of the known Ultras scaling is capable of defeating Armored Mephilas who is equal to Armored Darkness who is equal to Alien Empera who is superior to Juda who is 3-A. And Ultimate Final Geed is one of the strongest characters in the Post-Crisis Impact Era (Two Eras after Ultra Galaxy) with only a handful of characters who are stronger than him. And some of them who are stronger than him scales to the Super Dimension Eradication Bomb. Which brings me to my next point.
High 3-A is a no from me. There's only 2 reasons given here coming from, what it looks like, third party sources and all they say is "infinite fighting power". That's not nearly enough for even a possibly rating, especially if there's no direct feats for them. Hyperbolic/flowery language like this is extremely common, if we gave everyone that mentions "infinite power" a High 3-A rating, more than half the wiki would be High 3-A. Unless they have feats on that level off, handed statements like these are not enough.

Low 2-C

Post-Crisis Impact Era Belial survived being in the epicenter of the bomb after having a battle with Ultimate Zero which left them both wounded. And some others roughly scale to, above, and/or below him. The Super Space-Time Eradication Bomb (超時空消滅爆弾 Chō Jikū Shōmetsu Bakudan). Is stated in series and in the databook to be capable of destroying the entire universe by causing a dimension rift that spreads throughout the entire universe. Here is Qliphoth‘s translation of this part from the databook.

“The destructive power of the Super Space-Time Eradication Bomb is so great that the original fault line centered on the explosion on said Earth spreads throughout the universe and collapses the entire Side Space. Even with the power of the Ultramans of the Land of Light, they were unable to stop this collapse..."

And as shown with the notes under the tiering system significantly affecting the entire structure would also count as 3-A to 2-A. And the bomb‘s name literally says its a space-time eradication bomb and we have statements both in series and in the databooks that said it affected the entire universe (In this case the Side Space universe which has its own time flow). In the movies it is also mentioned that each universe has its own time flow. It’s the reason why some of the characters in their human forms didn’t seem to age even though it has been years since they last met). And so I believe instead of the bomb being accepted as at least 3-A, likely Low 2-C like in this thread, the bomb should be considered straight up Low 2-C.
As I said in the previous thread the bomb being called "Space-Time" isn't really enough, since Low 2-C requires all of space-time to be erased, i.e. past, present and future, this could very well just be localized. Coupled with lack of feats, an outright Low 2-C rating is not entirely convincing. But I don't want to be too harsh on these types of feats so an "At least 3-A, likely/possibly Low 2-C" I'd be fine with.
 
I'm mostly vouching for Low 2-C at the moment so to sum up the reason it doesn't work is because there's nothing indicating it's entire past, present and future was being affected, coupled with a seemingly vague name.

Shouldn't the fact it's affecting the timeline be enough to warrant that level of range? Because that's what the databook is expanding on given the nature of the scene that was actually shown. It should be noted that the prologue I linked in the other thread had very limited showings which again, the databook expands by detailing the true scale of things.

In short, the prologue shows how the bomb works and takes effect, by spreading throughout the universe which the databook adds to by calling it dimensional faults. The databook also states that it encompassed all of Side Space Universe, which is the designation of that world, its own timeline. Or, going by the multiverse map, a world that exists beyond dimensions. In the very same series, dimension is also substitute for space-time used by a character who uses a monster that can warp it on a comparatively smaller scale.

What I'm hoping to explain is that even if the damage wasn't shown to be instantaneous or having the level of destruction it's said to have, it was intended to be such.
 
Shouldn't the fact it's affecting the timeline be enough to warrant that level of range?
If you can post the scans for that, maybe.
Because that's what the databook is expanding on given the nature of the scene that was actually shown. It should be noted that the prologue I linked in the other thread had very limited showings which again, the databook expands by detailing the true scale of things.
The databook excerpt above just shows 3-A displays.
In short, the prologue shows how the bomb works and takes effect, by spreading throughout the universe which the databook adds to by calling it dimensional faults.
That's just 3-A.
The databook also states that it encompassed all of Side Space Universe, which is the designation of that world, its own timeline. Or, going by the multiverse map, a world that exists beyond dimensions. In the very same series, dimension is also substitute for space-time used by a character who uses a monster that can warp it on a comparatively smaller scale.
I have no idea what you're talking about here.
 
Alright so 3-A high tiers is accepted. High 3-A top tiers is rejected. Kinda wondering though why would novelization and the data book statement be considered third party sources? I thought novelizations and databooks being used was fine or has the standards been changed a while back? Kinda been on and off the site so I’m not entirely sure about this. Also even when he’s already stronger than a bunch of 3-As on top of having an infinite power statement it still wouldn’t be enough?

Outright Low 2-C god tiers seems to be rejected as well. But is it fine for more characters to scale to Low 2-C due to an already injured and weakened Belial surviving the bomb in a even more weakened state?
 
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If you can post the scans for that, maybe.
For an in-series statement, I don't recall any, but the translation in the OP already has it:

“The destructive power of the Super Space-Time Eradication Bomb is so great that the original fault line centered on the explosion on said Earth spreads throughout the universe and collapses the entire Side Space. Even with the power of the Ultramans of the Land of Light, they were unable to stop this collapse..."

And in accordance to this multiversal map:

0l6dpiqk6m231.jpg


Side Space (middle bottom) is its own timeline, which the effect of the bomb already encompasses.

I have no idea what you're talking about here.
I suspected confusions would arise, but yeah, what I'm saying is that the bomb was affecting space-time on a universal scale, which I recall as still qualifying criteria for the tier.
 
For an in-series statement, I don't recall any, but the translation in the OP already has it:

“The destructive power of the Super Space-Time Eradication Bomb is so great that the original fault line centered on the explosion on said Earth spreads throughout the universe and collapses the entire Side Space. Even with the power of the Ultramans of the Land of Light, they were unable to stop this collapse..."

And in accordance to this multiversal map:

0l6dpiqk6m231.jpg


Side Space (middle bottom) is its own timeline, which the effect of the bomb already encompasses.
That's just 3-A.
I suspected confusions would arise, but yeah, what I'm saying is that the bomb was affecting space-time on a universal scale, which I recall as still qualifying criteria for the tier.
Can you post proof for this?
 
3-A seems fine to me. The translation also states Juda's true form is as massive as the universe, so that rating looks pretty solid. I disagree with High 3-A for the same reasons Ogbuna outlined above.

I am not sure if Low 2-C is very appropriate, either, given how the bomb seems to take effect by creating a rift in space that continuously spreads throughout the universe until it is subsumed entirely, a process which obviously takes time to happen and only seems to affect the spatial part of the universe. If it destroyed the entire spacetime continuum, then past and future would have to be destroyed too, which doesn't seem to be the case here.
 
I see so that’s two staffs saying only 3-A is fine, High 3-A is not usable and the bomb will still only stay as at least 3-A likely/possibly Low 2-C.

But anyways thanks for the input.
 
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I guess. The next one will be the multipliers CRT. After that is the miscellaneous CRT where we update and fix stuff like the abilities and names for the existing profile pages.
 
This might be getting old, but can I have one more go on this? I've been collecting pieces of what's already been posted before and hopefully try to prove why it's already explained and shown what the full extent of the Low 2-C feat is.

In advance, if this once again doesn't go through, I'll be fine with 3-A until actual feats come around.
 
I mean you could try. But since two staff already said it’s not straight up Low 2-C I don’t really have much hopes that it will go through until we get more feats in the future.
 
Note: I will be translating more stuff from a few untranslated notes in one of the scans. I am not highly proficient in Japanese, but I understand just enough of their word construction to be able to pick up on the intended ideas.

0l6dpiqk6m231.jpg


Once again referring to this map, this time with focus on the words in yellow. Here's what I got.

Original line: ウルトラマンが活躍する世界(ワールド)は時空を超えて広がっている。

Translated (GT): The world in which Ultraman plays an active role extends beyond space-time.
Translation (Refined/Slight correction/simplification): Ultraman's activity extends beyond space-time.

Without any intention of altering the meaning, this indicates that beyond space-time means that the universes they operate in are separated by space-time and aren't just composed of a universe-sized space.
It should also be noted that the graph itself is titled "Ultra Worlds that exist beyond dimensions", which doesn't clash with its subsequent usage of space-time in the yellow-marked writing and further shows that the two are interchangeable words. And as shown in the graph, the various universes are called "Worlds" which has been explicitly stated to be located within differing space-time continuums. In those graphs as well, they designate the differing worlds through names, such as "Future Earth World", "World where Spark Dolls are scattered" and "Side Space World", where the STA Bomb is detonated.

Another thing of note is where the map and the article clipping here:
50653d176d224f4a23f58c2104f790529822d130.jpg

That being they are from presumably the same databook and the same year in 2017 for the series where the event mentioned happened. Which means they were intended to further clarify the scale of what's going on.

Now again, I want to make clear that the prologue scene in this video and the databook statement are complementary hence why further visual feats are scarce.

Here are the translations I did myself. Qliphoth's will also be pasted over again for the sake of crediting and maintaining consistency between translations:

No.1: 超時空消滅爆弾の破壊力はすさまじく、サイドスペースでの爆発を中心に生じた次元の断層は、宇宙全体に広がり
No. 2: サイドスペース全体を崩壊させてしまうほどたった。

TL. 1: The destructive power of the super space-time extinction bomb is tremendous, and the dimensional faults that occurred mainly in the side space explosion spread throughout the universe.
TL. 1 (Refined): The destructive power of the super space-time annihilation bomb is tremendous, and the dimensional faults that was centered from the Side Space explosion spread throughout the universe.
TL. 2: It was just enough to collapse the entire side space.
Qliphoth's TL: The destructive power of the Super Space-Time Eradication Bomb is so great that the original fault line centered on the explosion on said Earth spreads throughout the universe and collapses the entire Side Space.

Now here's what I mean by the two acting as complementary. The video shows the explosion and the resulting collapse, which might appear like it takes too much time. The databook however, expands and corrects it by saying that it already expanded throughout the universe, across Side Space, thus setting grounds for 3-A as already accepted. But once again, the multiverse map clarifies that Side Space is its own timeline, a separate space-time continuum from the other worlds.

And on the case or suspicion on whether the damage was already that widespread, again the translation says "It was just enough to collapse (the) Side Space", meaning that by the time the video showed what looks like a black hole, the universe was already collapsing. The black hole was showing what it looks like once what little stability remains is gone; a void.

So in short, the bomb affected all of Side Space, which has been stated to be its own entire timeline, or alternatively dimension. And with statements from the databook, it's said that the effects of the bomb had already taken place after the first detonation which has been said to have carried the destructive power.

Edit 2: Something I missed. In the video, around 55 second mark, you can see that the stars were already being sucked in, which should be proof for the argument that the initial explosion already carried the destructive power. Later, when the black hole formed, you can see that the stars behind it getting sucked en masse, which means that it wasn't as slow as initially thought.

Edit: The reason why I didn't post anything new is because all the proof was hopefully already there, it just needed to be extracted.


My last question now is how high would the accepted 3-A be if this doesn't work.
 
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Given the revisions going on about Tier 2 standards, I will concede with the accepted proposals until it is completed for further arguments, if any.

That means this thread can be closed now.
 
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