Ultra Series Tiering Change

[Peter1129]

Decided to make this CRT as well since the other ongoing one is rather short and could probably be completed in like a day or so.

High 3-A -> Low 2-C​

So first of all we've got Juda. He's currently rated as High 3-A but as you can see his description says

Capable of distorting the entire Land of Light universe as well as destroying it. The universes in the Ultra Series are stated to be infinite in size multiple times and the Land of Light universe contains the 3-Dimensional Universe, Minus Universe, Mirror World, and Yapool’s dimension, the latter three being realms that exist in higher-dimensional space

So doesn't Juda technically qualify for Low 2-C with his current description? Like I kinda forgot what the original reason why Low 2-C got rejected for him but I just recalled that in this Q&A thread it was mentioned that destroying a universe sized 4D space is considered Low 2-C. So I went and checked the tiering system and found this section under Low 2-C.

Characters or objects whose power is uncountably infinitely greater than the prior tiers. That is to say, they can significantly affect, create and/or destroy higher-dimensional structures that exceed lesser objects by an uncountably infinite margin. An example of this is 4-dimensional spacetime continuums of universal size, but this can be generalized to any 4-dimensional structure of a similar scope.

So unless I'm mistaken doesn't this mean Juda is just straight up Low 2-C since the universe he's destroying includes multiple mirrors of the infinite sized universe but in higher dimensional (4D) space?

At least Low 2-C, possibly 2-A, likely Low 1-C -> Low 1-C​

And than on to the next part with Dark Zagi's tier that everybody scales from. So originally we gave him this triple tier thing because we weren't quite sure if Zagi's destroying space-time of a universe statement would 100% include the 4th dimension. But upon further inspection for the series a while back we found out that there is in fact evidence suggesting that characters that scale to Zagi should be outright Low 1-C.

The supporting evidence is this interview with Abe the director of Belial Galactic Empire who introduced the concept of the Multiverse and the Victorium Core from Ultraman Ginga S. So first the interview it mentions this

Abe: There were always settings of enemies coming from different dimensions, but I thought different dimensions (alternate dimensions) are hard for children to grasp. Even in terms of animation, it's difficult to imagine what it (alternate dimension) looks like, so the only thing we can do is animate them shattering a hole in space and jumping out. So, there was a thought that we wanted to expand the world view. There was a word called "parallel world", but I wanted a term that fit a bit better, so I did some research and I found out about the concept of the "multiverse". I majored in physics in university, so I'm interested in the newest scientific theories.

The different dimensions (alternate dimensions) the name for Yapool's dimension which is 4th dimension space is part of the universe before they introduced the concept of parallel worlds (bubble universes) and the multiverse. So this here is pretty much outright confirmation that a singular universe does in fact include the 4th dimension space. And this actually supports the idea of Juda destroying the universe likely including the 4th dimension of the previous accepted evidence weren’t enough.

And the Victorium Core on the other hand is an object where a single crystal was stated to be higher dimensioned energy in Ginga S and than in Ultra Fight Victory, the actual core itself is confirmed to be Super Higher Dimensioned 超高次元 Chō kō jigen energy by Yapool, a higher dimensioned being from the 4th dimension. Which Yapool used to revive Juda Spectre who is even stronger than Dark Zagi. But even with this super higher dimensioned energy it still wasn't enough to revive Juda Spectre so Yapool had to give his as well as his minion's energy to successfully revive Juda Spectre showing that you need more than just 5th dimensional energy from the Victorium Core to revive some of the stronger Low 1-Cs like Juda Spectre.

So the current profiles with these three tiers should drop the low and mid end of Low 2-C and 2-A and only keep the high end of Low 1-C due to how much more new evidence of the 4th dimension being included within the universe and not the bubble universe as well as evidence for the characters scaling to super higher dimensional energy sources.

Agree: 4 (WanderingGecko, Kisaragi_Megumi, DarkDragonMedeus, Firestorm808)

Disagree:

Neutral:

 

[WanderingGecko]

Fully agreeing with everything (and for the agenda too).

 

[Peter1129]

Bump

 

[Peter1129]

Bump

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Agree here

 

[Peter1129]

Vote added. Although rereading this CRT I made now. Would Juda be 3x Low 2-C or 3 Universe 2-C via his current description about destroying three universe sized 4th dimensional objects? Like I don’t think it was explained if they were all separate higher dimensioned universes. Or all part of the same 4th dimension.

 

[Revan_Laha]

Agree

 

[Tonygameman]

Quite the same.

 

[Yamachiho]

Bump

 

[Peter1129]

Vote added. Although rereading this CRT I made now. Would Juda be 3x Low 2-C or 3 Universe 2-C via his current description about destroying three universe sized 4th dimensional objects? Like I don’t think it was explained if they were all separate higher dimensioned universes. Or all part of the same 4th dimension.

So uhh anybody have any thoughts about this part here? Like any idea on which tier Juda should be for destroying multiple universe sized 4D objects but its unclear whether or not they are all part of the same 4th dimension space or separate 4th dimension spaces?

 

[Agnaa]

Pinging for evaluations at Shadowslash's request

@DarkDragonMedeus @Firestorm808 @Vietthai96

 

[Firestorm808]

To clarify, who else scales to the size of the Land of Light Universe and what tier are they?

Do you have the Japanese captions of Yapool's statement?

 

[Peter1129]

To clarify, who else scales to the size of the Land of Light Universe and what tier are they?

Do you have the Japanese captions of Yapool's statement?

Everybody who’s currently High 3-A upscales from the original Juda from the Showa Era. Everybody else that scales from Dark Zagi and the higher stuff are in the tier 1 range.

You should be able to see it in the blog if you click the link for the last part of Juda’s description

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

To clarify, who else scales to the size of the Land of Light Universe and what tier are they?

Do you have the Japanese captions of Yapool's statement?

I share the same sentiments.

 

[Peter1129]

I share the same sentiments.

Oh wait Japanese caption as in the ones for the super higher dimensioned energy stuff you mean. Sorry thought you two meant the Yapool dimension stuff for Juda but I didn't read clearly due to cloudflare being down. But yeah those I don't have the Japanese texts for. But I do have the video of where he said the line. He outright says the words Super Higher Dimensioned 超高次元 Chō kō jigen here.

And the various scaling such as for High 3-A are here on this blog

 

[Peter1129]

To clarify, who else scales to the size of the Land of Light Universe and what tier are they?

Do you have the Japanese captions of Yapool's statement?

I share the same sentiments.

I have updated the Imgur with the Japanese caption video I just found

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks alright then.

 

[Peter1129]

Nice! Just need one more staff count I believe then.

Vote added. Although rereading this CRT I made now. Would Juda be 3x Low 2-C or 3 Universe 2-C via his current description about destroying three universe sized 4th dimensional objects? Like I don’t think it was explained if they were all separate higher dimensioned universes. Or all part of the same 4th dimension.

Also DDM, do you have any thoughts on this? Or should I just have it as

At least Low 2-C, possibly 2-C

Because it’s unclear whether or not they are separate 4th dimension spaces or all part of the same 4th dimension?

 

[Firestorm808]

I have updated the Imgur with the Japanese caption video I just found

Japanese Translation of Yapool's "higher dimension" statement in a mathematical context seems to check out.

 

[Firestorm808]

Everybody who’s currently High 3-A upscales from the original Juda from the Showa Era. Everybody else that scales from Dark Zagi and the higher stuff are in the tier 1 range.

To clarify, you are saying that only Juda directly scales to the size of the Land of Light Universe. In turn, characters upscale from Juda.

Also, when you say "Land of Light Universe" do you just mean the "universe structure" of the main continuity?

Dark Zagi is part of a separate scaling chain with him destroying space-time. In turn, characters upscale from Dark Zagi.

To clarify, what statement is used for Juda Spectre being stronger than Dark Zagi?

 

[Peter1129]

To clarify, you are saying that only Juda directly scales to the size of the Land of Light Universe. In turn, characters upscale from Juda.

Also, when you say "Land of Light Universe" do you just mean the "universe structure" of the main continuity?

Dark Zagi is part of a separate scaling chain with him destroying space-time. In turn, characters upscale from Dark Zagi.

To clarify, what statement is used for Juda Spectre being stronger than Dark Zagi?

The Land of Light universe is the singular universe which is known for containing more than just the 3-D universe but also the Mirror world (Reverse Universe), Minus Universe (Inner Universe), and Yapool’s Dimension (Different Dimension). Think of it as the universes in Dragon Ball. A universal structure with multiple universes sized objects within it.

But it’s kinda unclear if the latter three world which are explicitly stated to not be 3-dimensional are in the same 4th dimension space like Yapool’s Dimension or separate 4th dimension spaces. All we know is that they are higher dimensioned universe sized objects. Hence my previous question here where I was unsure if their new tier should be considered Low 2-C or 2-C or just a simply possibly higher rating.

Vote added. Although rereading this CRT I made now. Would Juda be 3x Low 2-C or 3 Universe 2-C via his current description about destroying three universe sized 4th dimensional objects? Like I don’t think it was explained if they were all separate higher dimensioned universes. Or all part of the same 4th dimension.

Juda Spectre is a stronger and different form of Juda that appeared later on in the series. Him being stronger than Zagi is simple scaling which is listed in the blog.

Juda Spectre > Super Grand King Spectre >>> Ginga Victory > Etelgar >> Vict Lugiel >> Hyper Zetton (Imago) >> Five King >> Dark Lugiel >> Dark Zagi

 

[EddisherSound]

bump

 

[Peter1129]

Bump

 

[Firestorm808]

The Land of Light universe is the singular universe which is known for containing more than just the 3-D universe but also the Mirror world (Reverse Universe), Minus Universe (Inner Universe), and Yapool’s Dimension (Different Dimension). Think of it as the universes in Dragon Ball. A universal structure with multiple universes sized objects within it.

But it’s kinda unclear if the latter three world which are explicitly stated to not be 3-dimensional are in the same 4th dimension space like Yapool’s Dimension or separate 4th dimension spaces. All we know is that they are higher dimensioned universe sized objects. Hence my previous question here where I was unsure if their new tier should be considered Low 2-C or 2-C or just a simply possibly higher rating.

If Yapool Dimension's 4D Space is uncountably larger than 3D, and in the same time dimension (Time would be higher D in this case), it and the Land of Light spatially would be Low 2-C.

 

[Peter1129]

If Yapool Dimension's 4D Space is uncountably larger than 3D, and in the same time dimension (Time would be higher D in this case), it and the Land of Light spatially would be Low 2-C.

So still just Low 2-C and not 2-C huh. Would this be like 3x baseline because it’s 3 4D spaces or still just baseline than?

Also I guess you agree with the changes?

 

[Peter1129]

No wait I misread it. So wait we need to have proof of the 4D space being uncountably larger than infinite 3D to qualify for Low 2-C?

But doesn’t the description currently say as long as it’s a universe sized 4D object it can qualify as Low 2-C?

 

[Firestorm808]

So still just Low 2-C and not 2-C huh. Would this be like 3x baseline because it’s 3 4D spaces or still just baseline than?

Also I guess you agree with the changes?

2-C is multiple 4D Dimensions.

Where did the three 4-D Spaces come from?

• Land of Light "Realm" Structure - 4-D
  • Yapool's Dimension - 4D
  • Human World - 3-D
  • Mirror world - 3-D
  • Minus Universe - 3-D

 

[Peter1129]

2-C is multiple 4D Dimensions.

Where did the 3 4-D Spaces come from?

• Land of Light "Realm" - 4-D
  • Yapool's Dimension - 4D
  • Human World - 3-D
  • Mirror world - 3-D
  • Minus Universe - 3-D

Minus Universe is inaccessible from the 3-D world and requires FTL speed via a dimensional travel ability to access. Which is also the way Ace accessed Yapool’s Dimension and compared to Ultraman escaping from the 4th dimension.

☆Dimensional Flight Ability
Ace has been to the Golgotha Star in the minus universe, and Ultraman has escaped from four-dimensional space.

Mirror World was said to exist in 異次元 (Another Dimension) which is also what Yapool’s dimension is called. So I believe currently it’s treated as being a higher dimensioned mirror of the 3-D Universe.

But if you think this is wrong and not enough evidence for 4D then we can change the wording and just rewrite some of the description instead. Afterwards we can just proceed with the Low 2-C upgrade. Really don’t want this CRT to get dragged on any further when we’ve got more coming up soon.

 

[Firestorm808]

Minus Universe is inaccessible from the 3-D world and requires FTL speed via a dimensional travel ability to access. Which is also the way Ace accessed Yapool’s Dimension and compared to Ultraman escaping from the 4th dimension.

I do not see the signs of the Anti-Universe being uncountably larger than 3-D.

Mirror World was said to exist in 異次元 (Another Dimension) which is also what Yapool’s dimension is called. So I believe currently it’s treated as being a higher dimensioned mirror of the 3-D Universe.

The same goes for the Mirror World

But if you think this is wrong and not enough evidence for 4D then we can change the wording and just rewrite some of the description instead. Afterwards we can just proceed with the Low 2-C upgrade. Really don’t want this CRT to get dragged on any further when we’ve got more coming up soon.

Okay.

 

[Peter1129]

I do not see the signs of the Anti-Universe being uncountably larger than 3-D.

The same goes for the Mirror World

Okay.

So Yapool’s Dimension is fine being 4-D but the other two aren’t right? Which means you’re fine with the original changes I mentioned in the op?

 

[Firestorm808]

So Yapool’s Dimension is fine being 4-D but the other two aren’t right? Which means you’re fine with the original changes I mentioned in the op?

The Land of Light Spacially being 4-D is fine. 5-D with Timeline.

 

[Peter1129]

The Land of Light Spacially being 4-D is fine. 5-D with Timeline.

Nice. So that’s an agree than. Thanks!

 

[EddisherSound]

We can start applying the changes now, right?

 

[Peter1129]

We should be. Low 2-C is pretty straight forward and Low 1-C is something already on the profile. We just needed to remove the other two ends and make it outright. So this shouldn’t count as a tier 1 thread that requires three staffs approvals. Not to mention we really aren’t all that popular of a verse.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Minor Bump