UI Goku vs Darkspine Sonic REDUX

[Theuser789]

Those are still your intrepretartions or why Goku should win, a vote isn't valid when what you say straight up isn't true, like voting a character via Ap when they are weaker, or via blitz with speed when speed equal, all what you two are saying is your intrepretartions that also have been contested no matter if you thought the arguments were valid or not, if you have any problems bring them in a versus removal thread

 

[HST_Master]

What reason do you have of Erazor was not trying to use his RW on Sonic? Erazor wanted Sonic gone and has RW at his disposal for being a genie. Same RW he used on the world of Arabian nights.

And what reasoning do you have that he was? Saying "Well you can't prove he wasn't" isn't an argument. Not to mention Alf Layla using his RW has nothing to do with Sonic using his, and we blatantly see what it looks like when he's (Sonic) using it.

 

[HST_Master]

Those are still your intrepretartions or why Goku should win, a vote isn't valid when what you say straight up isn't true, like voting a character via Ap when they are weaker, or via blitz with speed when speed equal, all what you two are saying is your intrepretartions that also have been contested no matter if you thought the arguments were valid or not, if you have any problems bring them in a versus removal thread

Except Goku isn't weaker. He one shots. And again this is a huge False Equivalency and doesn't even answer any of the debunks. It's just trying to rush grace at this point.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Has it been discussed on what Sonic is hitting back here?

 

[HST_Master]

Erazor's Energy ball. That's the reasoning for his "Attack Reflection" which is him just physically pushing it back.

 

[Theuser789]

@hst, what's up with you and misunderstanding me? That was a generic example about what a invalid vote is and not just a diferent opinion, both of my examples were generic points

It's not rushing to grace, it's the diference between what a actual invalid vote and just a diferent opinion on who wins, if you still disagree just try to remove it in a versus removal thread

 

[Ted_Ed]

damn rekt

 

[HST_Master]

@hst, what's up with you and misunderstanding me? That was a generic example about what a invalid vote is and not just a diferent opinion, boty of my examples were generic points

It's not rushing to grace, it's the diference between what a actual invalid vote and just a diferent oponion on who wins, if you still disagree just try to remove it in a versus removal thread

Except it is a False Equivalency. You're trying to say that Sonic wins with things that were completely debunked. And then even moreso trying to rush grace and shutting down everything with "Then Remove it with Versus Removal" in which case why would I when the votes are faulty in the 1st place?

 

[AshenCrow777]

Dosent goku actually need a KI signature to teleport too?

Its use takes some concentration, which is aided by Goku putting his index and middle fingers to his forehead (He has also shown to teleport without placing his fingers), and he needs a ki signature to teleport to, otherwise he cannot perform the technique.

So Speed Break is still viable.

 

[HST_Master]

Dosent goku actually need a KI signature to teleport too?

Its use takes some concentration, which is aided by Goku putting his index and middle fingers to his forehead (He has also shown to teleport without placing his fingers), and he needs a ki signature to teleport to, otherwise he cannot perform the technique.

So Speed Break is still viable.

Sonic has a form of energy. Soul Energy. Not to mention he's capable of Iting in his general area. And again look at Elixr's Scan. That's how he uses Speed Break, to try and push back attacks.

 

[Theuser789]

Except it isn't at all, you are ignoring that those "debunks" have been contested as well and my comment explained what's a actual invalid vote and why the Sonic votes aren't that, and they been debunked is just a opinion of the Goku side

Because the votes are faulty to you but not objectively so, voting because of Ap when the character is weaker is a generic invalid vote, you show bring it to the removal thread because this is bodering derail and makes the Dragon Ball side look salty because they are losing that you need to invalidate votes because you said so when the debunks are just personal opinions of how some moves work then a actual objective fact like my examples

 

[AshenCrow777]

Actually we don't accept verse equalization anymore unless the op makes it really specific and applies it to the battle other than that.

It still dosent work and also didn't you guys say that sonic soul gauge is not his own soul just the name of the gauge and a gimmick and plus yes I saw the scan but if you go higher Sonic can use it to either counter attack Or just increase his speed the way he uses it completely depends on him but most times he uses it to boost his speed.


So SB still viable.

 

[HST_Master]

Except it isn't at all, you are ignoring that those "debunks" have been contested as well and my comment explained what's a actual invalid vote and why the Sonic votes aren't that, and they been debunked is just a opinion of the Goku side

Because the votes are faulty to you but not objectively so, voting because of Ap when the character is weaker is a generic invalid vote, you show bring it to the removal thread because this is bodering derail and makes the Dragon Ball side look salty because they are losing that you need to invalidate votes because you said so when the debunks are just personal opinions of how some moves work then a actual objective fact like my examples

Ugh what? Multiple people have actually bothered to counter these "contests"

"Hit doesn't have Time Stop": Show a clip with him blatantly saying he does.

"Sonic Resurrection comes from his soul": Sonic resurrects via his Soul Energy not his Soul

"He can't vaporized him with normal attacks": Give a list of characters casually doing so.

"He can use Wisps because it's not Sonic from SaTSRs": No he can't because we don't do that for anyone else. It's Darkspine from his latest appearance.

"He starts with RW": Clips straight up shows otherwise.

 

[AshenCrow777]

Also official description of SB on this site that was accepted

''Speed Break: Sonic accelerates to speeds surpassing what he can achieve normally, leaving streaks of fire in his slipstream.While active, Sonic is invulnerable and can damage enemies and obstacles by crashing into them.

Goku is not touching Sonic and won't be able to use IT at all.

 

[HST_Master]

Meanwhile you haven't yet countered these arguments, instead now you're just attempting to stop anyone from saying anything via "Removal Thread" in which case no. The arguments for Sonic have been failed to be properly backed up and apparently aren't even being bothered to be backed up. Saying "you're just salty" isn't gonna magically make the votes valid.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Thats blatantly inaccurate though, in game you don't gain invulnerability and its actually a detriment due to enemies still being able to harm you iirc.

Also invulnerability only functions up to the highest thing it's protected you from, considering gokus massive ap comparatively you'd need to prove the invulnerability could protect him from that level of ap

 

[HST_Master]

Actually we don't accept verse equalization anymore unless the op makes it really specific and applies it to the battle other than that.

It still dosent work and also didn't you guys say that sonic soul gauge is not his own soul just the name of the gauge and a gimmick and plus yes I saw the scan but if you go higher Sonic can use it to either counter attack Or just increase his speed the way he uses it completely depends on him but most times he uses it to boost his speed.


So SB still viable.

Ashen, that CRT was about resistances being shared via Verse Equalization. It's still very much SBA

Also that's not an "official" description. That's whats on the Sonic Wiki. Again. And again Goku is very much capable of ITing in his general Vicinity, VE or no.

 

[ChocomilkAlex]

Also official description of SB on this site that was accepted

''Speed Break: Sonic accelerates to speeds surpassing what he can achieve normally, leaving streaks of fire in his slipstream.While active, Sonic is invulnerable and can damage enemies and obstacles by crashing into them.

Goku is not touching Sonic and won't be able to use IT at all.

Invulnerable within a gameplay sense, he's not invulnerable in a versus debate sense though.

 

[AshenCrow777]

Hst first of all its not even taken from the Sonic wiki you yourself can go check also the pen or the sword again you are wrong about the first thing too here's proof.




This is from our wiki and there was already discussions about and was accepted, I'm going to tell you guys the same thing you have all been telling us "Not happy with the abilities go do CRT and go see how far you get before Admins shut it down."

I'm only hear agrguin the fact that Sonic is faster than MUI Goku and that's it nothing else I don't care about everything else brought up her but I don't like the fact that guys are blatantly ignoring how SB works and keep telling me that my info is from the Sonic wiki Despite actually coming from our site.

 

[ChocomilkAlex]

Also instant transmission is instant, if Sonic were to use speed break, Goku would likely be able to use IT and land a hit on him.

 

[HST_Master]

https://sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Speed_Break

It's nearly word for word from the Sonic Wiki.

 

[Master_Xar]

Also official description of SB on this site that was accepted
''Speed Break: Sonic accelerates to speeds surpassing what he can achieve normally, leaving streaks of fire in his slipstream.While active, Sonic is invulnerable and can damage enemies and obstacles by crashing into them.

Goku is not touching Sonic and won't be able to use IT at all.

my guy invulnerability NLF i don't think you understand the AP difference here Goku is going to one-shot him if he gets a hit off and MUI gives him instinctive reactions above his normal equalized speed as well and Sonic's way of attacking isn't complex in-character. Goku has a massive Fighting Skill advantage here too.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Sonic can't win via speed break when speed is equal because Goku is naturally faster.

 

[AshenCrow777]

https://sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Speed_Break

It's nearly word for word from the Sonic Wiki.

So not my problem do a CRT.

 

[AshenCrow777]

my guy invulnerability NLF i don't think you understand the AP difference here Goku is going to one-shot him if he gets a hit off and MUI gives him instinctive reactions above his normal equalized speed as well and Sonic's way of attacking isn't complex in-character. Goku has a massive Fighting Skill advantage here too.

Can't people not understand that I am arguing the fact that sonic can use speed break to be much faster than goku by several times over I don't care about the invulnerability plus instant transmission will not work since sonic does not possess ki unless OP says this match is also energy equilized

 

[Theuser789]

Ugh what? Multiple people have actually bothered to counter these "contests"

"Hit doesn't have Time Stop": Show a clip with him blatantly saying he does.

"Sonic Resurrection comes from his soul": Sonic resurrects via his Soul Energy not his Soul

"He can't vaporized him with normal attacks": Give a list of characters casually doing so.

"He can use Wisps because it's not Sonic from SaTSRs": No he can't because we don't do that for anyone else. It's Darkspine from his latest appearance.

"He starts with RW": Clips straight up shows otherwise.

This is just reasons that Goku will win, not that the Sonic votes are invalid at all, good for you that you believe that Goku can win, people posted counters to those which you are selectily ignoring the counter arguments and thinking because you disagree with Sonic winning means votes invalid

Saying that votes are wrong because you disagree doesn't make votes invalid, you are ignoring the diference between disagreeing with a reason than actual votes invalid, which you are keeping selectily ignoring

Awser me, if the votes are invalid why wasn't this added them? Because Goku should have already been over his Grace no? Disagreeing with votes /=/ votes invalid

And yes, the versus removal thread is the place to argue about incorrect and invalid matchs, not in the midlee of grace because your character is currentely losing

 

[AshenCrow777]

Also that was the actual argument it wasn't just about resistance.

Wokistan:

To summarize, I don't agree with the idea of equalizing powers or resistances afforded by some in verse power. I don't like equalization that much in general, but can at least accept it's existence (though maybe it should be optional like speed equal is?)

I am fine with letting different powers interact with one another, and general stuff like resistances to soul manip or being able to see inviable overrides verse specific "only X can Y" as is, but don't think they should be considered the same thing. If oen power system does X abilities and Y resistances while the other does A abilities and B resistances, I don't think those should mix even if the power systems are thematically similar or whatever, because end of the day the things power systems do are still unique abilities for the characters using it.

 

[HST_Master]

So not my problem do a CRT.

1st your argument is that it's not from the Sonic wiki and it was official, now that ut is your only argument is "make a crt" why? It's not an official scan and invulnerability is a major NLF, in fact the best thing we have official is what Sharha says on it which is..

You can run Ultra Fast when performing a Speed Break ~Genie Waifu.

 

[ChocomilkAlex]

So not my problem do a CRT.

There's no need for a CRT because invulnerablilty is never listed on Sonic's profile, so you should do a CRT about why it should be on his profile.

 

[ChocomilkAlex]

Was Genie Waifu something that you added at the end HST?

 

[Master_Xar]

my guy invulnerability NLF i don't think you understand the AP difference here Goku is going to one-shot him if he gets a hit off and MUI gives him instinctive reactions above his normal equalized speed as well and Sonic's way of attacking isn't complex in-character. Goku has a massive Fighting Skill advantage here too.

Can't people not understand that I am arguing the fact that sonic can use speed break to be much faster than goku by several times over I don't care about the invulnerability plus instant transmission will not work since sonic does not possess ki unless OP says this match is also energy equilized
The default is verse equalized if i recall. Goku has handled people dozens of times stronger and faster with skill alone Sonic isn't any different if not worse with UI since he adapts and gets stronger/faster too.

 

[HST_Master]

This is just reasons that Goku will win, not that the Sonic votes are invalid at all, good for you that you believe that Goku can win, people posted counters to those which you are selectily ignoring the counter arguments and thinking because you disagree with Sonic winning means votes invalid

No, it's the attempts at countering the reasonings on why Sonic loses. And they've been answered. Meanwhile you've outright avoided trying to counter the reasoning

Saying that votes are wrong because you disagree doesn't make votes invalid, you are ignoring the diference between disagreeing with a reason than actual votes invalid, which you are keeping selectily ignoring

Except they're wrong because half of the reasonings are OOC as hell or just go against the Versus Thread Rules and not even bothering to prove why.

Awser me, if the votes are invalid why wasn't this added them? Because Goku should have already been over his Grace no? Disagreeing with votes /=/ votes invalid

Simple, constant stonewalling.

And yes, the versus removal thread is the place to argue about incorrect and invalid matchs, not in the midoee of grace because your character is currentely losing

Except

A. Grace doesn't mean all arguments stop.

B. Goku's not even losing, the votes for sonic have been debunked properly outside of saying "Imo no they haven't" no one has bothered to back them up.

@Ashen

Dude I can blatantly see him talking about Resistances.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Im still waiting for somone to explain why the votes based on res and reality warping should be considered valid. Ressurection isn't assumed to work without a body just because it uses soul energy, you need feats. Sonic has had one fight in this form and he didn't reality warp, neither of these reasons...work

 

[HST_Master]

@Choco

Yeah, I like Sharha's Design a lot.

 

[AshenCrow777]

Can't you not understand I do not care about the damn invulnerability God damn it NFL or not I simply do not care for it sorry if I sound mad and pissed but I'm tired of repeating myself over and over again also that's was not my o ly argument that wasn't even my main 9ne my real argument before you all started wrongly interpreting my words was about that this match will go inconclusive because Sonic's speed will never allow Goku to touch him.

Also if the ability is on the page means that's its accepted if you don't like it you make a CRT to remove it as always been like that and SB is not the only thing that grants him invulnerability through out different sonic games but I'm not gonna talk about that.


Second of all when I was saying make a CRT I was literally doing what you guys where doing I even quoted what one of said during the whole thing you all ahave been I don't care make CRT I was calling out on you guys hypocrisy.


3rd FINALLY you admit that speed break does act as a speed boost because all the others where downplaying how the speed breaks works despite me saying it literally boost sonic as much as he wants.


It is also important to note that characters won't lose/gain any abilities or resistances which they do/don't inherently posses. However, if an ability have a weakness, condition, caveat, or limitation, stated by at least a valid and uncontradicted statement, then it should be applicable after equalization. these are the official rules for energy equilization unless OP says that energy is equalized KI and Soul gauge are completely different things and thus Instant Transmission will never work.


Now that I'm done with this Sonic will never ever get hit by Goku at all

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Actually if the speed boost works that way its restricted cause sonic is the slower character if his boost lets him blitz the ability is disallowed...

 

[Ionliosite]

Verse equalization makes Sonic have Ki and/or Goku have Soul Gauge. That's literally how it works.

 

[AshenCrow777]

Im still waiting for somone to explain why the votes based on res and reality warping should be considered valid. Ressurection isn't assumed to work without a body just because it uses soul energy, you need feats. Sonic has had one fight in this form and he didn't reality warp, neither of these reasons...work

That's a blatant lie right there he did use his reality warping abilities at the end of the fight.

@Master the default is never and I mean Never verse equilized it is recommended that it should be and it dosent matter if UI goku gets stronger sonic can always just go faster and faster since he can produce his own energy at will to boost himself further and further.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Sonic can't win via speed break when speed is equal because Goku is naturally faster.

 

[ChocomilkAlex]

Speed Break gives Sonic a sudden boost of speed, not a speed boost that will stack upon itself. That's like saying that the boost ability is basically every 3D Sonic game allows Sonic to keep gaining speed. No. It's a sudden boost of speed. Darkspine also has to manually charge it up, so that gives Goku the ability to one shot him when he is charging.