Two Warriors: Berserker vs Eragon

[Monarch_Laciel]

Literally anything that can kill is a death word. This includes stuff like spontaneous internal combustion + explosion via Brisingr and everything Monarch mentioned.

No. There are specifically 12 death words that work as I described. Not every spell that can kill is a death word.

And the ancient language is different to the dragon language. Dragons can just straight up warp reality. Ancient language is more like programming instructions to whatever's true name you are using.

 

[Overlord775]

@Monarch

would a direct Nine Lives istantly kill Eragon ?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I'll bring this up here, but its an issue in general. I am fairly sure that Caliburn taking out all of Berserker's lives at once was because the sword was still in side of him

 

[Overlord775]

because the sword was still inside of him

lewd

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Nine lives hits enough times to deplete those wards energy if Hercules got the full combo off.

But it's still just a multi-hit technique and speed is equalised so Eragon still has a chance to just cast a spell or two mid-Nine Lives

 

[Overlord775]

Nine Lives is High 7-A, so shouldn't it destroy the shield in only like 2-3 hits ?

 

[Tdtd1234]

Doesn't Nine lives boost Berserkers speed?

 

[Schnee_One]

Not if the shield itself is High 7A.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Only two to three hits that requires Hercules to swing his arm in full semi-circles each as opposed to Eragon who just needs to say one word.

@tdtd no, it's just a technique

 

[Overlord775]

Then how's this not a stomp ?

 

[Paul_Frank]

Doesn't Nine lives boost Berserkers speed?

Considering Shriou was able to blitz berserker with it i'm fairly sure there is a speed boost involved

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

It's not a speed boost like stat amplification, it's just attacking faster.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Then how's this not a stomp ?

Because Hercules does have a chance, albeit a small one.

 

[Tdtd1234]

@Monarch techniques in the nasuverse can have magical effects. Shirou is normally slower than Berserker but with Nine lives he was faster.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Yes but it's not status amplification, it's just attacking faster. Shirou gets the speed of the person who's weapon he's using, so him getting faster doesn't mean Hercules does. It still falls under speed equalised.

 

[Tdtd1234]

Shirou was able to hit Herc 8 times before he could hit once so it wasn't the same speed.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Because Nine Lives is simply a technique where one attacks faster, the technique itself does not make you attack faster.

That was Dark Hercules anyway, who is likely slower than his unaltered form like Saber Alter is.

 

[Tdtd1234]

How can Herc attack faster without attacking faster?

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Saber Alter is slower due to her armor growing larger and heavier, providing further defense but a slower speed. Heracles has no such case.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

How can Herc attack faster without attacking faster?

Read what I said carefully.

I can swing my arm around, and then I can swing my arm around faster. I have not just given myself statistics amplification.

Nine Lives is a technique where one attacks faster than normal, but it is not a technique which in and of itself boosts the user's speed. It is not statistics amplification. It is simply the user trying a little harder. In all official descriptions of the technique, "making the user faster" is not something that appears.

 

[Tdtd1234]

@Monarch There is no reason for dark berserker to be slower than normal and Shirou was faster than him. Unless Berserker is actually super lazy and normaly fights at less than 8 times his actual speed.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Berserker under madness enhancement in F/SN lacks the motor skills to actually use Nine Lives, so he actually is slower than what he'd normally be when he can use Nine Lives.

Also when has Berserker ever used Nine Lives in character immediately? He can't in F/SN and I don't remember him even using it in Okeanos.

Also if this is Grand Order Hercules who can actually use Nine Lives then he doesn't have God Hand.

 

[Tdtd1234]

He didn't need to use Nine lives in Okeanos

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

So in other words, the only canonical examples of Berserker's fighting style is just charging at the enemy and using normal attacks, not Nine Lives.

 

[Tdtd1234]

In his canonical fights he could hurt his opponents with normal attacks

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Well he won't know that he can't hurt Eragon with his normal attacks until he's tried to hit him normally.

At which point Eragon has already tried a death word, seen it not work, and gone for the plan of using his many other one-shot spells instead.

And then when Hercules starts growling and resurrecting, he does it again. With a method that works beyond god hand's Regenerationn limit this time.

 

[Tdtd1234]

So Herc attacks once and is killed in the process sees it is usless and activates Nine lives.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Eragon's already walking away from the corpse and is out of Nine Lives range.

And Herc's resurrection takes long enough that Eragon could cast a couple more spells during the process

 

[Tdtd1234]

Why would Eragon cast more spells if he doesn't know Herc will resurrect?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Because he hears the growling and hissing as Herc's body starts pulling itself back together

 

[Tdtd1234]

Once Herc starts his resurrection he will immediately start attaking and Eragon doesn't know his spell will be usless the second time so he may cast it again.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

No he won't. He'll stand in the same place without moving until his body is healed.

And Eragon isn't so stupid that after seeing a guy regenerate from one spell he'd just use the same spell again.

 

[Tdtd1234]

When Rin blew his head off he started crushing her before he was compleatly healed. He can revive very fast, otherwise archer would have defeated him while he was reviving.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

She was already in his hands. Squeezing your hands slightly is very different to performing a complex technique.

Also as I said, if he has God Hand, he doesn't have Nine Lives. It's because of the amount of mana he's given. If he has enough mana to fuel God Hand, he has enough to boost his madness enhancement to full power, at which point he can't use Nine Lives anymore. We know this from his interlude.

 

[Tdtd1234]

isn't the difference between his abilities because of the different summoning sistems, not the amount of mana?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Not really.

Unlike Ilya, Fujimaru doesn't have enough mana to handle a Hercules with full power Madness Enhancement and God Hand, so his madness enhancement is restrained and God Hand disabled, hence why Hercules actually has the skill to use Nine Lives.

And even if it was the difference in summoning systems, it would need to only be one of them being used, not both.

 

[Tdtd1234]

"The stock of resurrections amounts to 11 times.
In other words, this means Berserker would not be annihilated unless he is defeated 12 times, but apparently it is not being displayed in this summoning."

Unless stated otherwise I'll assume he is summoned at full power.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Ok

In which case he can't use Nine Lives due to madness enhancement also being at full power

 

[Tdtd1234]

He can definitely use Nine lives despite madness enhancement in some summoning systems so I'll assume he is summoned with both noble phantasms.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Which summoning system?