TheGreatJedi13
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Two combined powers in one being are going to face a piece of techno junk.
- Thread starter Gabs22_Gamer
- Start date
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That doesn't answer anything I have said.
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It's still time stop because it's forcing Jiren to be stopped in time, even the show treats it that way. And it does scale in the resistance because Jiren resisted it by literally powering up and he was resisting hit's normal time skip before. So that's at least a 2 layer resistance, and we still have the third layer which is hit stating that his time skip won't work on Goku anymore during the rematch.
What's it's range? if it's low multiversal then yeah but if it's anything else then no. And like I said it depends on how the BFR works, like, can Gogeta dodge it? can he interrupt it? is it in character? stuff like that.
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I actualy do agree that Gogeta can go SSBE, but Metal is just more haxed than him to take the W, like, he can just BFR him, become intangible and invisible with Espio's powers, etc.
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when has metal bfr'd someone with chaos control?
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Gogeta touches intangibles and incorporeal dudes, invisibility is completely worthless against dragon ball characters and their myriad of senses. SSBE activates instantly and blitzes if Gogeta is in danger, gogeta even has minor UI scaling to Goku.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Hundreds of Universes range. As for dodging, I'm not sure actually, but since it's done by Chaos Control, I don't think so
Jiren is not stopped in time. We clearly see him move and struggle even before he manages to break the attack. Only everything around him is stopped to prevent Jiren from moving. And considering it's based on power alone, that doesn't count as resistance since they don't resist it with innate resistance, but rather due to AP alone. Besides, even if it was, Goku's breaking of Hit's time skip is still just one layer, not two, so at most it would be two layer and not 3
When did Gogeta used Kaioken or SSBE?
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i never argued this
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Gogeta can't use UI, and if you say he do, then prove it. Also, Metal is a robot, and thus would have no ki signature to sense
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Metal was there when Shadow teleported the both of them out of a dimension, so it's not impossible for him to do so
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im not saying he cant do it I'm asking when has he done it before
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Oh no low multiversal range. Gogeta should resist time manipulation smh, anyway Gogeta should still be able to counter it.
It's treated as time stop in the verse, basically an even stronger time skip, time stop resistance also applies to stuff like time slow so this should apply too. And no, the wiki treats these as legit resistances regardless, that's the whole reason Goku has resistance to time stop in the first place as him powering up to kaioken made him resist time stop so Jiren still gets resistances, anyway that's still enough to resist time stop.
OK. Limited Instinctive Reaction (Instinctively avoided Beerus who was about to attack, instinctively avoided Bulma's attack).
Gogeta >>> Goku. Therefore gogeta UI >>> Goku UI.
Key words are "myriad of senses", Gogeta has a bunch of different senses and prediction abilities like sense of hearing presence sensing, intent sensing, reading the flow of air currents, as well as impeccable skill.
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And I am saying that doesn't matter, he isn't a one track machine that can only act in a certain way (ironicaly enough)
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Jiren resisting it got nothing to do with Gogeta. You can't just automatically scale resistances like that, since if one character resisted something, we can't assume a stronger character would resist it as well without feats, especially since scaling Gogeta to Jiren's feat doesn't work since Gogeta isn't resisting it himself
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Jiren resisted it by powering up the same way Goku did who has a resistance right now, Jiren doesn't have any special abilities or attributes. He got caught by it, flexed his ki, then broke out, so logically, Gogeta would also resist it since he is much stronger than that Jiren. And Gogeta already has 2 layers resistance discounting it so he's still walking through time stop but he still has 3 layers. From that thread, what I understand is that you can't scale hax without sufficient evidence but there is evidence to scale hax here so it's fine. But what conclusion did that thread reach BTW?
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Then it's a weakness of the hax rather than a resistance for Jiren. It just means that Hit's abilities doesn't work against stronger people, which means that Metal's hax, which doesn't have this limitation, will definitely stop him, since Jiren just resisted a hax from a 3-A, while Metal is 3 times above Gogeta's
How Gogeta got two layers? Goku only have one by resisting Hit's time skip (and even that is questionable because he only did it because he became stronger than Hit, which means it's a weakness of the hax rather than a resistance feat for Goku, as he absolutely doesn't resist the same hax from someone stronger than him)
What evidence? Just being stronger is not evidence when Gogeta has no feats of resisting that
Read it
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No that weakness stuff only applies if the ability itself fails because it's bad not because the opponent is good. Jiren still gets a resistance, that's what the wiki accepts right now, dragon ball characters get resistance by overpowering hax with power, and not a weakness of the ability. Else that would downgrade most hax resistances in dragon ball which would require a CRT, so right now, Jiren has a resistance and it scales to Gogeta.
Yes two layers, Goku's resistance to the time skip, and hit stating that a stronger time skip doesn't work on Goku. That's 2 right there plus Jiren's is 3.
Overpowering time stop gets you resistance and Gogeta is more powerful than Jiren, there that's the proof.
Mate I'm asking you because I don't want to read it.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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How can you define if it's because the ability is bad or because the opponent is good?
That is literally a weakness of the ability, since the exact same hax coming from a stronger character will absolutely affect the characters in question, meaning it's not an actual resistance feat. Even if it was valid, you can't scale it to Gogeta as he doesn't have feats to resist that
Oh no what a nightmare. If their haxes need to be downgraded for the sake of accuracy, then so be it
Well time for a CRT then. And can you show me the CRT where it was accepted to be like that
Again, why would that scale to Gogeta? Strength alone isn't enough to qualify. You need further reasons, which you lack
Hit being physically stronger doesn't mean that his Time Skip is also stronger. You should check this page
That's your proof? Rather horrible proof you presented here, especially when Gogeta have no feats.
I showed you the thread where it was discussed. If you don't want to read it then it isn't my problem
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Because there are examples of characters overpowering hax with power and it being counted as resistance, this is why DB has a resistance in the first place. It's not counted as a weakness unless there is explicit proof for it like for example manga hit actually has that weakness where his time skip literally decreases in time if he uses it on someone stronger than him, but this doesn't apply to anime hit, Goku just has a resistance and people who are at a similar level of power should scale. Gogeta naturally scales to Goku's time stop resistance so it's not out of the picture if we scale his resistance to Jiren's. No hit's time skip was stronger than it was before because he improved it during his fight with Goku after Goku countered it, so hit said that the improved version won't work on Goku, that's Goku's second layer.
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Hey man, you're back, are you okay now?
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Which examples? Show me the thread.
Can you show me the thread where it was decided as such? And why you bring manga into an anime discussion? In the anime it's clearly shown that Hit's time abilities have a clear weakness that it can't affect people stronger than him. That is not a resistance since the same people are definitely affected by the hax if they're weaker. They don't have an innate resistance which is why it also doesn't count as a resistance feat. All that means is that Hit's hax relies on AP and since they only resisted up to 3-A hax from him, we can't assume he can resist a time ability from a Low 2-C
No, you can't just scale based on baseless assumptions to fit your headcanon. He scales to Goku's feat yes, but scaling him to Jiren without proof is wrong even if the "resistance" is valid
Proof? Again, just because Hit is stronger than before doesn't mean that his time skip now can time stop people with resistance. If anything, this is an antifeat since it shows that Hit's time skip still doesn't work on Goku despite Hit trying it again
Braking
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Gilad_Hyperstar
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Pretty much yeah
Gilad_Hyperstar
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No. Gogeta have several ways to win such as with SSBKK or SSBE
Braking
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wtf that aint cannon
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In the same thread you showed, they said the hakai is a valid example of getting a resistance from overpowering hax.
Okay I don't care. I'm just saying how it works and how the wiki accepts it, right now, over powering hax gets you a resistance and is not counted as a weakness unless it's literally stated that it's a weakness like with manga hit. This is why Goku has resistance to time stop, existence erasure and void manipulation. If you don't like this then you gotta make a CRT but right now that's here to stay.
Power scaling is a baseless assumption? Gogeta already resists time stop and his power is greater than Jiren's who can withstand 3 layer time stop by only powering up, so gogeta scales.
Hit's timeskip was broken by kaioken Goku, but hit improved his timeskip to be able to trap him even in kaioken, but then in the rematch, hit said his time skip won't affect Goku therefore Goku resists two layers.
I'm glad you're okay, I saw what you said to ant man.
On topic of the thread. I'm arguing that metal man's hax are not strong enough to beat gogeta right away, he can only copy him and stat amp with already an AP advantage of 3x. So gogeta would just sense that the dude is much stronger and turn SSBE and win.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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I don't know. Fluffy argued that so ask him
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Also hakai isn't like Hit's timeskip, so you still have nothing
You still didn't show me anything. Is it really that hard to show the CRT to me? Or it's because you have no CRT to support you?
Yes it is baseless since higher AP = / = sharing resistances without feats. And Gogeta have no feats
Then it's just a weakness of Hit's ability. Given that this exact same ability can trap Goku if Hit becomes stronger than him, it means Goku has no resistance, otherwise then his resistance would only apply in Blue Kaioken or above, which means he doesn't actually have an innate resistance to resist it
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Against BFR? Not really, since he lacks the range to come back from it
Braking
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then isn't this a stomp?
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It is, it's hax and it can be overpowered by AP, I showed you what you asked for.
Ok you might want this then https://vsbattles.com/threads/staff-discussion-re-adding-gokus-resistance-to-time-stop.120436 in this thread everyone agreed that it's a resistance and not a weakness, and they even agreed to scaling Jiren to it.
That's how it works in DB, what kind of feats do you even want?
Yeah bullshit, if you believe that then make a crt because that is not what the wiki accepts.
In the match, the only relevant hax is BFR, but I don't even know how it's used, and Gogeta will just win before it because he'll use SSBE the moment he realizes his opponent is copying his moves and stronger than him.
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Pretty much. Chaos control is his most reliable and most in-character win condition. Combine it with crystlization and it's a solid win for Metal. So far, I'm not seeing really good reasoning to say Gogeta should resist it.
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What's crystalization? Choas controlnis resisted. And gogeta will transform quickly given how he fights in character.
