Tsunayoshi Sawada vs Issei Hyoudou

[Muhammedmco]

Speed Equalized

Standard Battle Assumptions

Ultimate Dying Will Tsuna vs Cardinal Crimson Promotion Issei

Tsunayoshi Sawada:

Issei Hyoudou: 1 (T Angelus Ballack)

Inconclusive: 6 (Burning Full Fingers, Litentric Teon, Ricsi-viragosi, GoodDaySir, Hizack123, Xansussama1010)

Who will win?

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Is this a composite UDWM Tsuna? As in, he has his gravity manipulation, petrification, and all? Or is he restricted to just his fists?

Also, would someone be able to clarify what abilities Issei has at this point and what he doesn't? I am not very familiar with the character and would greatly appreciate some information.

 

[Muhammedmco]

Is this a composite UDWM Tsuna? As in, he has his gravity manipulation, petrification, and all? Or is he restricted to just his fists?
Also, would someone be able to clarify what abilities Issei has at this point and what he doesn't? I am not very familiar with the character and would greatly appreciate some information.

Composite?

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Yes. Composite meaning UDWM, but he retains all of his other abilities, even the ones that include his gear. This would include his petrification, burning axel, cloak, etc. As UDWM breaks everything but his Vongola ring.

Also, would you happen to be able to answer the other question?

 

[Muhammedmco]

Tsuna can use everything in his UDWM, including gravity manipulation, petrification, fists, and all.

This battle is mainly hax vs hax.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

I see. I can't cast a vote until I have more clarity on Issei's abilities. I think it would be unfair to vote without an expert from the other side here to present relevent information, as I don't think I can obtain quite enough from his profile alone.

 

[Muhammedmco]

I see. I can't cast a vote until I have more clarity on Issei's abilities. I think it would be unfair to vote without an expert from the other side here to present relevent information, as I don't think I can obtain quite enough from his profile alone.

Ask Burning Full Fingers. He's all ears to any Highschool DxD fight and he knows every single thing about said verse.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Alright. I'll do that at a later date. Thank you.

 

[GoodDaySir]

Isn't this a stomp for Tsuna? UDW Tsuna is 7-A Likely higher.

 

[Muhammedmco]

And Issei is 7-A with his Triana forms.

I'm concentrating on 7-A versions of them.

 

[GoodDaySir]

Triana is 7-B. Issei is 7-A as either Jugg or CxC

 

[Muhammedmco]

I see.

Okay. I will change it. Please wait for a sec.

 

[Muhammedmco]

Okay. Done.

 

[GoodDaySir]

I feel like giving this one to Tsuna thanks to gravity manipulation, petrification, and precog. Plus Tsuna is At least Mountain level likely higher for dura, while Issei's AP is only mountain level and At Least Mountain level with longinus smasher.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

I'm still not exactly certain on Issei's powerset, so I don't want to give a vote yet.

 

[Muhammedmco]

Bump.

 

[GoodDaySir]

@Teon

Just check his profile

 

[Litentric_Teon]

I already have, multiple times. There are just certain things that are unclear to me, such as what exactly his 'boost' is. I also heard that he has the ability to literally divide someone's speed value. I know speed is equalized here, but I can't seem to find such a thing on his profile. Just want to make sure I'm fair to the character before casting a full vote.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I already have, multiple times. There are just certain things that are unclear to me, such as what exactly his 'boost' is. I also heard that he has the ability to literally divide someone's speed value. I know speed is equalized here, but I can't seem to find such a thing on his profile. Just want to make sure I'm fair to the character before casting a full vote.

boost multiplyes somones power by 2 every 10 seconds in base, and 1to 2 times per second in balance breaker.

divide divedes a certan property (energy, matter size or speed) of an object

 

[Litentric_Teon]

@Risci-viragosi

Thank you.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

@Risci-viragosi
Thank you.

hes boost depends on his motivation tough, its speed anyways, whe bloodlusted he did it several times under seconds, when promised boobs he unlocked a stronger form of it but normaly he can only do it as fast as he can say it

 

[T_Angelus_Ballack]

@Risci-viragosi
Thank you.

hes boost depends on his motivation tough, its speed anyways, whe bloodlusted he did it several times under seconds, when promised boobs he unlocked a stronger form of it but normaly he can only do it as fast as he can say it

DDraig is usually the one saying it, but you're right it depends on his motivation. When Vali was going to use Half Dimension, and Azazel mentioned it halfing Rias the gremory boobs, lol he had almost 20 boosts in a second.

Anyways, it's insane fighting issei with speed equal, unless the oppent is i would say millions of times stronger than him. He can just use divine dividing multiple times on the person, and reduce them to Tier 10.

The divine dividing exponentially half's whatever issei needs it to half. possibly even abstract things, think it halved a curse.


Issei stomps, Divide's tsuna and steps on him.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Oh so he can divide strength too? Then the only thing he'd have to worry about is Tsuna's petrification, which seems very unlikely to hit. But we aren't given a motivation for Issei, and both of them are in character. Would it be correct to assume that, in character, Issei doesn't use boost nearly as much?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Oh so he can divide strength too? Then the only thing he'd have to worry about is Tsuna's petrification, which seems very unlikely to hit. But we aren't given a motivation for Issei, and both of them are in character. Would it be correct to assume that, in character, Issei doesn't use boost nearly as much?

he boost, always. he tends to start of with 14 boosts

 

[GoodDaySir]

First of all, Issei is using divide via the wyvern that he summons it's different from Vali that uses divide via Divine Dividing. So it's unknown whether or not Issei can directly divide Tsuna's strength, so far, he only uses his divide to halve projectile and I don't remember him directly divide a person's strength.

I'll admit I am not very familiar with Tsuna's ability, so can anyone give me some explanation?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

First of all, Issei is using divide via the wyvern that he summons it's different from Vali that uses divide via Divine Dividing. So it's unknown whether or not Issei can directly divide Tsuna's strength, so far, he only uses his divide to halve projectile and I don't remember him directly divide a person's strength.
I'll admit I am not very familiar with Tsuna's ability, so can anyone give me some explanation?

its made with valis sacred gear pice and he stated that it useses the same tipe of power that valis sacred gear does and it has divided energy already.

the wyvens are made so the energy is not inside of him. as such, they should logiclz do the same

 

[GoodDaySir]

@Risci

You can't say Issei's wyvern is capable doing the samething like Vali's Divine Dividing unless there is evidence that proves otherwise.

It is made from a small piece of Divine Dividing so it's ability is certainly limited. For example Issei's wyvern is incabable using Half Dimension, Reduce, and shooting energy while Vali's wyvern and Divine Dividing can.

Plus, whether it's Vali or Issei, none of them is using their wyvern to directly halve their opponents strength.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

@GoodDaySir

To give brief explanation on Tsuna's two more hax abilities, he first has his petrification, which is fueled by his sky flames, the typical flames he employs. Through summoning his box weapon, a small lion that sits on his shoulder, he has have him roar at the opponent, and whatever is struck by the roar turns to stone. I have to check to see if his cloak petrifies upon contact or not.

His other hax ability is his gravity manipulation, fueled by the flames of earth stemming from his oath flame, a combination of both earth and sky flames. He can manipulate gravity to increase its pull on his opponent, use it as a 'gravity coating' to allow him to move when his apendages are broken, and can even use it to condense certain things, such as his condensed X-Burner, essentially allowing him to release mountain level attacks at surgical points.

He also has slight precognition via his Hyper intuition, but it's typically not super useful. It moreso just helps him figure out how attacks work faster than others, or warn him of danger even if he doesn't know what that immediate danger is. Such as if an attack has an extra effect or something like that. It feels more like a plot device at times, and it doesn't work on robots, but it's still there nonetheless.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Honestly, in character, Tsuna doesn't typically use his petrification outside of the future arc. He typically sticks to his sky flames and gravity hax.

 

[GoodDaySir]

@LitentricTeon

Well, for petrification, Issei did fight Cao Cao, who in their second rounds, have medusa's eye (I am sure you already know what it does). Apperently Issei's armor is capable of blocking such thing and thus the only parts that get petrify is just small part of his armor which he can easily repair it. So I don't think petrification matters anymore.

As for gravity manipulation, I do think it will slow Issei down but I don't think it will enough to completely stop him tho, well Issei can always boost his strength and speed to endure the added gravity.

Well, Issei also have wyverns that can halve Tsuna's attack on top of him being already resistance to fire.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Since speed is equalized, then boosting his speed wouldn't do much, though boosting his strength would. Tsuna was able to use his gravity manipulation on someone who essentially took out most of the Vongola and Simon families, so I think that slowing him down is an understatement. It'll stop Issei in his tracks momentarily, which would give Tsuna a chance to strike.

It seems like Issei's wyverns are what do the halving on other people. If they have to make contact, then that'll be fairly difficult as Tsuna can shoot them out of the air, and use his gravity manipulation to make it so that they can't fly, before one shotting them.

As mentioned earlier, only future arc Tsuna really uses his petrification. Issei having resistance to it only makes the point more mute.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

they dont need contact

 

[GoodDaySir]

@Teon

Well, if boost didn't do it then Issei can always use his Triana Knight form, which increase his speed immensely, and as far as I know Issei's Triana Forms work similar with Goku's Kaio-ken so it bypass speed equalization.

While Tsuna did have a higher AP then Issei's Dura, Issei have Fire Resistance plus his armor is self-regen which makes it even harder to break, and not only that Issei isn't going down easily, in fact, Issei is fully capable fighting while having 5 holes on his body without slowing him down at all.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

GDS is right. I'm unsure if Issei's wyverns can directly halve the power of his targets anymore since neither him nor Vali has done that yet, but it probably depends on the opinion of who you ask. Note that I don't remember if it was directly stated that they can't directly use the halving ability on animate targets. If it was stated, I'll add it to his page, but if it wasn't, I'll add that it's unknown if he can do so with Dividing Wyvern Fairy.

Don't remember when Divide halved a curse, but I remember that one of the past possessors of the Divine Dividing could halve the thoughts of his fellow possessors, and Vali can apparently halve dreams. Not like it matters here though, Issei can't do any of those. At least currently.

I don't think it's really like Issei has resistance to petrification. Parts of his armor did get petrified, it's just that each time Cao Cao did it, he immediately shattered the affected parts and repaired it. But he did mention that his real body didn't get petrified.

Though even if Issei gets completely pinned down by gravity for a moment instead of merely being slowed, he still has massive cannons on his shoulders and hidden cannons in his wings to fight back. Alternatively or additionally, he'd just focus all his boosts into his defense, camp in Rook to enhance his defense further and instantly repair his armor if it's destroyed. So, I wouldn't say Issei would be completely unable to defend himself or retaliate. I'm not factoring him boosting his strength since I'm not sure how it'd go, but it should also help.

As for shooting the wyverns out of the air, it depends on what kind of attack Tsuna uses. The wyverns could either just reflect them or halve the attacks until they are either "as weak as penlight", weak enough to be tanked comfortably, deflected, or eliminated entirely. Not sure what kind of ranged attacks Tsuna uses though. If he somehow destroys them, they can be recreated again, as Issei said in Volume 16.

I don't know if he uses his cloak in character or something, since I've not seen anyone asking or mentioning if it's going to nullify Issei's attacks, but Penetrate would bypass it like it did to Rizevim's Sacred Gear Canceller, and it would have done the same to Diehauser's Worthless if he had landed a direct hit on him. Both nullify the abilities of the person they make contact with, or if the person instigates contact themselves. Essentially, Penetrate allows him to bypass or penetrate through anything that would nullify or impede his attacks and stop him from hitting his opponent directly.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

@GoodDaySir

As far as I know, the speed increase for Goku's Kaio-ken is also equalized, so the same would apply to Triaina Knight.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

@Burning Full Fingers

Thank you for all of the information. I'm still a bit confused on how Issei's dividing through his wyverns work. If they don't require physical contact, then how does it work? And gravity manipulation can still rather easily knock them out of the air if they are able to fly. Also, if they reflect his flames at him, Tsuna could likely just use first point breakthrough to absorb the reflected flames and give himself a small boost in strength.

I'm not sure if Penetrate would bypass it, as I'm fairly certain Tsuna's cloak would cause the thing to turn to stone. But if it nullifies the cloak as a whole, then I suppose it would. The issue is that Tsuna doesn't use half of his tools in character. Petrification, as great a hax as it is, was something he only used for one arc, same as his cloak. It's unfortunate, as it would have made many of his future fights a bit easier, but true nonetheless. Whenever he calls his box weapon out after that it's for the XX-Burner.

I agree that Issei could do something while being pinned down, I was only trying to prove that Tsuna' gravity manipulation is more potent tha GoodDaySir had said.

I'm confident that Tsuna would be able to bypass his incredible defense through a condensed X burner, as it concentrates his energy into a single point, producing a piercing effect rather than a blunt one, that can easily one shot even those on his level if he hits a vital area.

@GoodDaySir

I agree with Burning here. Any effect that would cause a direct change in a speed statistic holds no effect in a speed equalized match. Kaioken is no exception to this, as would the speed increase from going Super Saiyan, though the strength, agility, and other increases would still apply.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

the divide just, kinda works. it works from afar but we dont reallz know how

ill be honest i dont know penetrate all that well

isseis has a weird anatomy (he was hit in his spine , pierced, and he could still talk, albeit whisper)

 

[Litentric_Teon]

@Risci-viragosi

Oh, that's interesting. Lol fiction. Thanks for the info.

 

[GokuBold]

As Teon said, Tsuna's Gravity manipulation is in a way high level, he pinned down Daemon spade, who we already know how strong he his and on top of that Deamon after powering up by using the 8th Flames, he was still struggling to even lift an inch his body.

If Issei gets affected by the gravity, Tsuna would have the chance to seal him or shut him with a condensed X-burner.

Also Tsuna physically, something that surprises me, is stronger than Issei By a lot, meaning that if they try to do the anime holding hand type of fight, Tsuna would dominate and Issei would either get punch or seal, although this is just a scenario.

Now, I have been thinking if this should get added or not but when Tsuna first fought Mukuro, The latter activated some kind of dark aura, which Tsuna later purified, could that do more damage to Issei?.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Tsuna can't really seal IIRC. It's just his sky flames doing their harmony thing. It doesn't work on anything that's not dying will flames, and it's not something that's truly consistent enough to be considered another ability.

I'm more suprised that his Hyper Inuition isn't more effective against Illusions considering that his verse contains some of the most busted illusions for a tier 7 verse.

I'm gonna have to think more on this match-up. I honestly can't decide between Issei's dividing and Tsuna's gravity manipulation. In particular since Issei's dividing doesn't seem to have a discernable distance, or way to distinguish a target. I'm also not familiar with that technique, so I'll have to view a fight or something involving it.